New Glock 23 and Failure to Feed

[Warbird]

The most common cause of Glock and really many semi-auto, problems is operator error. That said, the 40 cal has given Glock more problems that any other caliber, and far more than the 9mm Glocks which have the least failures. We are still talking about a very small percent of issues here in comparison to the total number out there.

If you read AAR's from some of the top professional schools and trainers, I will use Vickers as an example, you will see what guns have issues in their classes. The Glock 40's you would notice had more issues than any other Glock, mainly 22 and 23 as they are most often used in such courses. I will also note that those are good sources of information as relates to people who want to find out what AR's are the most consistently unreliable. The AR being the main carbine used in those courses.

I would call Glock and ask them about the magazine issue. I have a 23 and carry it more often I suppose than any other gun I own. I have never had a failure with it of any kind in several thousand rounds. Of course when it comes to a true issue with a gun, that is probably more by luck than anything else. Any particular gun can have some issue when it is made or mag for that matter and it can escape QC. Nobody is right all the time.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Warbird

[cadillacdude1975]

i have owned 3 different models of the Glock. the 36, 33 and the 27. all the guns had the same FTF FTE issues. that was until i got some instruction on the proper stance and grip from a police officer i worked with. you would be surprised at how much of a little change in your stance and grip of the weapon has on the mechanics of a Glock.

since his coaching, i have not had a single FTF or FTE. and we did not do a thing to the guns, so it was my mechanics interfering with the operation of the weapon.

[Peace]

Glock tech support had asked me to shoot some more and call them back on Tuesday (3 days ago), so I did. I called Glock back again yesterday, and then again today and finally got in touch with them. They were "working down the list" to call me back . . . from Tuesday morning. Short story: They still suspect ammo - which I am leery of, but today, they wanted me to send the gun to them - 6 weeks without my only carry weapon -(which struck a bad note with me, since they had told me last week that if the problem was still happening by Tuesday that they would send me a mag and recoil spring), I protested lightly and they agreed to send me a mag and recoil spring to see if they were the culprits. The Glock representative was, at every point, courteous and respectful, but I got the impression that he suspects user error. Well, I am as certain as I can be that my grip is good, my stance is solid, and my groupings are reasonably tight even at a decent firing rate, and I am not the only one who's had this G23 jam. Could it be the ammo, . yes.

Could it be me, . . not likely. Back when I first got this G23, my first 150 rounds were with a mediocre understanding of grip, and a new experience with the G23's recoil, . .. and in those first days, not one FTF. It was only later (weeks) after 200 rounds or so and a much greater understanding of proper grip and stance for handgun that all of this started.

Magazines are labeled, and testing will continue, . . .

Edited February 27, 2010 by Peace

[Guest CK1]

150 rounds means nothing, I've tore through 150rds in 10 minutes, it is by no means enough evidence that it's without a doubt not you. I've seen a few guys limpwristing a Glock not 10 seconds after they got done telling me that they're not sure about Glocks as theirs is having issues, but it's definetly not them limp-wristing (when it absolutly was).

If you can post a pic of your grip it may be helpful...

Not to get on your back, every maker out there puts out a lemon here and there, but IMO if it was a problem with a spring (recoil or mag) it'd show up actually more regularly than it has... The randomness of when your issues are showing up is unusual, a bad spring tends to reach a threshold where it's not doing it's job anymore, and then gets worse and deteriorates on a downward slope after it first shows up.

Have you had anyone who owns or shoots a Glock regularly put some rounds through the gun? They really are such simple guns, what you're experiencing is rare.

Edited February 27, 2010 by CK1

[Peace]

CK1 -I appreciate your dialogue on this thread, and I think you may be missing the point of my last post, which was: If limp-wristing is such a sure way to get this Glock to FTF, then it would've been MUCH MORE LIKELY to happen when I was new to the gun. That's all. I never said that it is " it's without a doubt not" me; what I said was, "Could it be me, . . not likely." One is a statement of absolutes, the other is a statement of probability. Really, I'm ignorant enough; please don't paint me out to be more than I already am. Easy on the attack of the bewildered Glock-owner. Not everyone who has a failure with a Glock is incapable of proper grip, stance, and trigger pull.

I agree with your point about the spring; as I am keeping closer tabs on these failures, I'm also realizing that they are not as random as you are making them out to be. Always from a 3/4 or more full mag. Always during slow firing, always at the bottom of (last few rounds in) the mag.

Again, if it was limp-wristing, then why have I had NO STOVEPIPES or FTE during all of this. . had one the second day I shot the gun (before all of this started) - not one FTE since! I have also had one FTF with snap caps cycling while dry-firing (same place in mag).

This week I labeled my mags, and so far have only had a failure with #2. . . we'll see if that trend continues.

I'll post a pic of my grip soon, but I can tell you it is high on the receiver, with the slide pointing in a straight line toward my elbow, first joint of my index finger and thumb of my right hand are lined up through the receiver, my left hand comes along with my left thumb just under my right thumb, as high toward the slide as they can be, pointing straight down the slide, the rest of the fingers on my left hand are wrapped around and pulled in tight over my right hand on the receiver - tucked up under the trigger-guard. I grip it tight, weaver stance with push-pull working toward balance.

Important thing you guys may not be hearing: NO FTEs to go along with all of these FTFs.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Peace

[Guest Andrewsky]

I won't accuse you of limp wristing.

I am wondering though, what kind of FTF it is. Is the round making its way underneath the extractor? Is the extractor over the rim? I'm wondering if maybe your extractor/extractor spring need to be broken in or switched out.

[Peace]

Andrewsky, thanks - Page 4 of this thread - you can see a pic of one my G23's FTFs - pretty typical 45-90 degree FTF - mostly 45-60 degree angle to the chamber.

As far as the extractor, . . .yeah, . . I don't know. maybe? A gunsmith at the range has looked at it, and couldn't "see anything wrong".

[Guest CK1]

Sorry man. The dark side of the force changes you .

Hopefully the new mag fixes things.

Being they're all failure-to-feed's does point to a possible bad mag.

Edited February 27, 2010 by CK1

[Guest 70below]

If this is not a limp wrist or magazine issue, I lean towards it being an extractor issue. I think you need to be more insistent with Glock to take care of the problem. I doubt seriously they would take 6 weeks to correct the issue, its probably more CYA. I wouldn't worry to much about not having a primary carry weapon that doesn't function properly. I've shot a lot of glocks and owned a few, and I sure would be surprised to have the issues you've been having. I had problems with a friends G29 10mm subcompact and limpwristing, but I know it was me, not the pistol.

[Guest Brett256]

Peace,

I got back to the range yesterday with my G23 and shot about 200 rds of Blazer Brass through this time. I did not have one FTF this time to my amazement but I had multiple FTE's with both the mags with normal feed lips and the wide.

I got the range instructor (who owns several glocks) involved before I even fired a shot yesterday and told him of the problems I was having. He basically showed me how to tighten up my grip and move my stance. He then asked if he could fire some rounds down range with it.....

The instructor had one FTE out of 50 rounds he fired with my new G23. His explanation was that the 40.cal glocks were just more prone to jamming issues unless your grip and stance were spot on......

what kind of joke is that ?

I have a serious issue with that statement.......... Isn't this supposed to be a combat firearm? Who in the hell would want to carry one of these firearms into a life and death situation knowing there could be an issue if their "grip" and "stance" were not exactly perfect?

I mean, I think everyone could agree that ***** happens in a firefight and "perfect grip " isn't always possible.

God forbid if you were hit and on the ground bleeding out having to fire back one handed laying on your side. Wow... guess what.... there goes your perfect grip and stance and now you might be pronounced dead on the spot because of a FTE.

I'm just not sold on this Glock23 as a combat firearm. For me it's just a $500 can plinker

Edited February 28, 2010 by Brett256

[Guest 10mm4me]

Get a G32 or a G19. I never liked Glock .40 anything. However, I do own a G20 10mm and have put prob 500 down the tube and have never had a malfunction of any kind. I was issued a G22 for work so I took it to the range to break it in and I had all kinds of double feeds, FTE, and what not. Double taps were all but impossible.

[Warbird]

Peace,

I got back to the range yesterday with my G23 and shot about 200 rds of Blazer Brass through this time. I did not have one FTF this time to my amazement but I had multiple FTE's with both the mags with normal feed lips and the wide.

I got the range instructor (who owns several glocks) involved before I even fired a shot yesterday and told him of the problems I was having. He basically showed me how to tighten up my grip and move my stance. He then asked if he could fire some rounds down range with it.....

The instructor had one FTE out of 50 rounds he fired with my new G23. His explanation was that the 40.cal glocks were just more prone to jamming issues unless your grip and stance were spot on......

what kind of joke is that ?

I have a serious issue with that statement.......... Isn't this supposed to be a combat firearm? Who in the hell would want to carry one of these firearms into a life and death situation knowing there could be an issue if their "grip" and "stance" were not exactly perfect?

I mean, I think everyone could agree that ***** happens in a firefight and "perfect grip " isn't always possible.

God forbid if you were hit and on the ground bleeding out having to fire back one handed laying on your side. Wow... guess what.... there goes your perfect grip and stance and now you might be pronounced dead on the spot because of a FTE.

I'm just not sold on this Glock23 as a combat firearm. For me it's just a $500 can plinker

I can understand your frustration. It certainly shouldn't be real difficult to make a 23 run well.

Mine has never failed me personally. I have shot mine dominant hand, weak hand, dominant only, weak only, etc. It certainly should work no matter the situation. All auto loaders have the propensity to jam if not handled properly, not just a Glock. I hope you can find the source of the issues so that you can be comfortable and feel confident.

I feel very confident in mine as I do all of my carry guns now and in the past; Glock 23, 27, HK45C, HK P7m8, Sig228(past), HK4. My other pistols are for fun. I won't trade my Glocks now especially since I had the grips reduced on all of mine and night sights installed. If I had it to do again, I would probably choose a Glock 19 and 26 if I stayed with Glock. I must say I have shot a couple of new M&P's and find them to be pretty dang good. The new triggers are much improved.

I have never considered myself a Sig guy or an HK guy or any other manufacturer dominant guy. But, when I think back on it, I imagine I have more time spent with one of those two manufacturers on my hip than any other. I also have more time with a 9 or 45 than anything else, 9 being more dominant. And to be honest I like either one better than the 40. The only reason I have the 40's is because my father bought 2 23's and 2 27's and gave me one of each. I essentially now have all four as he usually carries a 45 cal Glock. I figured I would rather learn to like the 40 than to say no thanks dad, I don't like the 40.

The 23 I believe is in the hands of more law enforcement carrying them confidently than any other pistol in the US and overseas.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Warbird

[Peace]

New Recoil Spring and New Mag Spring from Glock yesterday. went and shot 50rnds today. 2 FTFs. I know that my wrist was locked out. bummer. off to Glock it goes. . . . so I won't see it for a while. hopefully it will come back a more reliable gun.

[Guest x82para]

Im having the same problem with my glock 23 rtf 2....I get a FTF about 1/50 -1/75 rounds...This is the 4th glock I have owned And have never had a probem.....Glock also Siai it may be me limp wristing..I told them nope..had a 23 before I traded it for the new rtf2 23..never aproblem also Have a 27..Bought back to the shop I got it at and they told me I wouldnt have to send it to glock...I will see If I can pick it up tomorrow its been about a week now...

[Peace]

wow! Back from the dead! x82para, I hope this pans out for you. Let us know what Glock said/did when you get it back. I still haven't sent the Glock in. I have been shooting it some - haven't had a FTF since the last time I posted. ?? Who knows. I've got to get some time on the range with a good amount of ammo. happy topic resurrection to all

[Guest x82para]

Well the guys at the store that I bought it from test fired it and said it was fine..Well anyway I asked him what he would give me/how much it would cost me if I traded for a new one. Cost me either $75 for a new 23 or $100 for a new Gen 4 23...I got the gen 4 23 and just swapped out my night sights that were on the old one...Didnt really want to trade it since I only put 400-450 rounds through it.... but when I carry it I need to be confident that my weapon will not fail me...and like I said before this has never happend with any other glocks that I have owned...Went to the range today with my gen 4 23 and no problems...put 200 rounds down range....oh and my ass dont get rubbed raw any more either from the rtf on the rtf2....

[Peace]

So, you like the Gen4? I'm curious about the grip - if it feels more like an XD, then I might have to pick up a Gen4 23! Recoil any different on the Gen4?

[Guest x82para]

I like it so far...No issues and you really dont notice the grip..then of course its not as rough as the rtf. and doesnt rub your ass raw when your carrying iwb ..the recoil is a little lighter...also comes with 3 mags instead of 2...Does anyone belong to GSSF ?..I see with a membership you get 1 discouted glock every year...also you can take some of the glock classes that are not usually open to regular civilians...

[Guest tnxdshooter]

I have a new Glock 23 RTF2 purchased in December '09. In about 500 rounds, I have had 7-10 Failure to Feeds. This gun is brand new, and I have run WallyWorld Federal, Winchester White Box, S&B, Remington UMC, and PMC through it. I have had FTF/FTL with the federal, winchester, and UMC. I've had a gunsmith look at it briefly. . . not really finding anything. I'm not getting stove-pipes or anything so I don't think it is limp-wristing. I had been suspecting the ammo - as others have told me a lot of ammo is just "bad stuff" right now, but I am starting to suspect the magazines. I disassembled one tonight and took a picture of the spring (below).

Isn't the spring supposed to stick out further? (this is a 13rd factory mag that came with the gun)

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I'll probably make a call to Glock on Monday. This amount of failure renders this gun absolutely useless for its intended purpose.

I dont know if this helps but on the smith and wesson sigma 40 I had before I bought my springfield xd 40 after about 800-1,000 rounds the magazine springs wore out and I was getting alot of FTF/FTL. I replaced the springs in the magazine with some wolf extra power springs and never had a problem after that and the guy I sold it to has advised me he still has no problems with it. So, depending on how much you shoot and how many rounds you shoot at a time can determine how long it takes for the springs to wear out. The strongest springs in a mag I have ever seen were in my springfield xd. For a while they were just down right brutal now I can get 8 of 12 in there without having to use the loader.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

I shoot the federal wally world 40 call all day long out of my springfield xd and never had so much as a hiccup. Of course the mag springs in the xd are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay tighter than the glocks so I am thinking again as I stated previously that you have a magzine spring issue. Try some of the wolff extra power springs and see if that does the trick.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Also, this may or may not help the feeding issue but you could have a gun smith polish the feed ramp and see what that does.