New Glock 23 and Failure to Feed

[Peace]

I have a new Glock 23 RTF2 purchased in December '09. In about 500 rounds, I have had 7-10 Failure to Feeds. This gun is brand new, and I have run WallyWorld Federal, Winchester White Box, S&B, Remington UMC, and PMC through it. I have had FTF/FTL with the federal, winchester, and UMC. I've had a gunsmith look at it briefly. . . not really finding anything. I'm not getting stove-pipes or anything so I don't think it is limp-wristing. I had been suspecting the ammo - as others have told me a lot of ammo is just "bad stuff" right now, but I am starting to suspect the magazines. I disassembled one tonight and took a picture of the spring (below).

Isn't the spring supposed to stick out further? (this is a 13rd factory mag that came with the gun)

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I'll probably make a call to Glock on Monday. This amount of failure renders this gun absolutely useless for its intended purpose.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Peace

[Guest Ae-35]

You would be getting failures to eject if you're "limp-wristing" it, never seen (not saying it couldn't happen) failures to feed from "limp-wristing". Check with Glock, they will fix it!!!

Edited February 15, 2010 by Ae-35

[fastbs]

my g27 will screw up from limp wristing but i have to try hard. if it wasn't a glock i'ld sa 7-10 in 500 ain't bad. not sure on the mag spring.

[Guest CK1]

Could be the recoil spring, and/or maybe the mag spring but both of those posibilities are long shots as the gun is so new...

Most likely it's limp-wristing, yes, failure to feed is another dreaded limp-wrist problem that can happen as the slide relies on a locked wrist to cycle properly ans feed the next round, stove-pipes don't have to happen for it to be limpwristing.

[Peace]

Thanks for the responses.

Just for clarification, if it is limp-wristing, then this gun is awfully sensitive. If I've got a limp-wrist problem, it isn't flagrant. Also - it only happens when I have the mag mostly full, and then only as the last 3 rounds are emptying out of the mag.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Peace

[molonlabetn]

Magazine looks pretty normal to me... it wouldn't hurt to lightly lubricate it on the inside. Does this happen with any of the magazines (you have more than one, right?)

Also, what happens when it fails to feed? Does the cartridge stop on the feedramp, or is it partially in the chamber? That will tell you whether it's magazine related, or whether the extractor may not be allowing the case rim to slide under it.

Another thing... I have seen glock firing pins protrude from the breechface when returning to battery until the firing pin block safety (small round button on the bottom of the slide) and the striker channel have been cleaned and lubricated properly... if that is happening, it will impede the case-rim from sliding under the extractor claw. I'd suggest a teardown and lube of the gun either way, since it is new. As much as everyone likes to believe that Glocks work 100% out of the box, that's not true (not bashing, I own 2 of 'em myself, it's just reality).

[DWARREN123]

If it only happens with one mag then check it against others, if all do this call Glock.

GLOCK, Inc.

6000 Highlands Parkway

Smyrna, GA. 30032

770-432-1202

Good luck on your problem.

[Peace]

Called Glock this morning. Tech support suspects me (wrist) or the ammo. We agreed I should go shoot some higher brow ammo and call them back later today. No arm twisting needed. . .

It happens with both magazines that shipped with the gun. I might pick up a 3rd magazine today before I shoot.

Also - the failure to Feed happens in a couple of ways.

1) The fresh round jams at an approx. 45 degree angle on the feed ramp

2) The fresh round jams at a 90 degree angle (with the round barely sticking out of the silde)

-the angle of the jammed round varies, but it has mostly been around the 45 degree mark.

I am going to go and shoot some speer lawman today (Glock support liked that idea)- and I'll make doubly sure that I'm not limp-wristing the thing. We'll see if it gets better.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Peace

[Guest Ae-35]

Have you tried having a friend shoot it? Just to make sure it's the gun? Sorry, it may seem like you're not getting a lot of help on here. It's just, well FTFs and FTEs with new Glocks , XDs and M&Ps are very rare. Most of the time it's shooter error, or maybe mag. issues. 98.5% of the time the big three are boringly reliable right out of the box.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Ae-35

[molonlabetn]

Called Glock this morning. Tech support suspects me (wrist) or the ammo. We agreed I should go shoot some higher brow ammo and call them back later today. No arm twisting needed. . .

It happens with both magazines that shipped with the gun. I might pick up a 3rd magazine today before I shoot.

Also - the failure to Feed happens in a couple of ways.

1) The fresh round jams at an approx. 45 degree angle on the feed ramp

2) The fresh round jams at a 90 degree angle (with the round barely sticking out of the silde)

-the angle of the jammed round varies, but it has mostly been around the 45 degree mark.

I am going to go and shoot some speer lawman today (Glock support liked that idea)- and I'll make doubly sure that I'm not limp-wristing the thing. We'll see if it gets better.

The 90 degree angle happening sometimes would make me lean towards limp-wristing, as well. Let us know if the ammo makes a difference.

[Peace]

You guys sure are nice about the limp-wristing. We'll see today. I'll be shooting with some guys that protect our nation for a living. If I get FTFs and they don't. . . well. . . I guess I get my "man-card" temporarily revoked. ha! thanks again. update later tonight.

[Guest Ae-35]

A lot of times limp-wristing has nothing to do with "manning-up" just from forgetting to lock your wrists, sometimes thats connected with too low a grip on the gun, and too sometimes when someone is tired they can do it too. I'd say theres not anyone it hasn't happened to sometime. I've seen it happen at lot, when someone shoots a small service cal. handgun ,for the first few times. Hey ,my friend ( 6ft.6in.and 280lb.) shot a small 45 ( PT 745) for the first time last week , got three out of five failures. I watched, when I told him what he was doing, he shot the next 100 rounds without a hiccup.

[Guest CK1]

A lot of times limp-wristing has nothing to do with "manning-up" just from forgetting to lock your wrists, sometimes thats connected with too low a grip on the gun, and too sometimes when someone is tired they can do it too. I'd say theres not anyone it hasn't happened to sometime.

Agree 100%. It's a technique/grip thing, not necessarily a manhood thing. Get your grip ironed out so you're nice and high up on the backstrap and it'll probably never happen again.

and oh yeah: FWIW, It's called a "magazine" not a "clip", I don't care but you'll find that saying "clip" when talking about a mag will drive some people insane for whatever reason. Good luck!

Edited February 15, 2010 by CK1

[DavidD]

A lot of times limp-wristing has nothing to do with "manning-up".....sometimes thats connected with too low a grip on the gun, and too sometimes when someone is tired they can do it too.

I agree with Ae, I've seen it several times when people don't "choke up" as they say in baseball or simply get tired after a hundred or so rounds. Next time it happens, stop, load another round in the mag, chamber then concentrate on grip and tight wrist to see if it happens again.

Edit, and Ck1 since he beat me to it.

Edited February 15, 2010 by DavidD

[FlyboyLDB]

I have just developed similar issues with my G27. I highly doubt it would be limp wristing if the issue never appeared during the first 500 rounds the OP put through it. I have never been able to limp wrist a Glock. I have tried with a 21, 23 and a 27. But now my 27 will have a failure ever so many rounds. Only has approx 4-500 rounds. I think I am going to send it in to Glock as I do not feel that needed comfort level. I thought the ammo also - but tried others to no avail.

[Guest Broomhead]

With Blow-Backs, diagnosing, being honest with yourself, and knowing how to correct a limp wrist will go along way. Correcting a limp wrist doesn't mean just squeeze the hell out of the gun. It means to have a good firm grip, a stiff wrist, and a strong forearm. The right style of grip for you will also help, use what you know and what you are comfortable with.

How I learned to hold a firearm has helped me extensively. Basically, push forward on the gun with your dominant hand, which is positioned as high as possible on the back strap (the top, flat portion of the back strap, that is parallel to the slide, is where the webbing between your thumb and index finger should be tightly positioned), with the trigger finger and thumb on opposite sides, parallel to the slide. Then pull back on the gun with your off hand, which has it's fingers wrapped around the front of the dominate hand fingers, thumb parallel to and tucked slightly beneath dominate thumb. This grip will negate most of the motion caused by the recoil and will bring the nose of the gun back down faster allowing quicker, more accurate follow up shots. This also helps to prevent limp wristing, which will eliminate a vast majority of your problems.

[Peace]

So I went to the range yesterday with a buddy and we shot about 175 rounds through the gun. 50 of them were speer lawman (the rest were WallyWorld Federal). It never jammed with me - no FTFs with me, but my buddy had one FTF during slow firing, and 3 FTF when slamming a mag into the well. He seemed to think there was something goofy with the gun causing the FTFs. I shot 3 or 4 full mags at med-high cadence and got no jams. ?? Calling Glock back today to try and suss this out.

[Guest CK1]

So I went to the range yesterday with a buddy and we shot about 175 rounds through the gun. 50 of them were speer lawman (the rest were WallyWorld Federal). It never jammed with me - no FTFs with me, but my buddy had one FTF during slow firing, and 3 FTF when slamming a mag into the well. He seemed to think there was something goofy with the gun causing the FTFs. I shot 3 or 4 full mags at med-high cadence and got no jams. ?? Calling Glock back today to try and suss this out.

Need a bit more info to really help you here... The brand of ammo is relevant, but myself and many others have shot thousands upon thousands of those types through Glocks without any issues, so unless you eject a particular round that you have trouble with, you'll never confirm if it's the round (and I say "round" not "the ammo" because Glocks are known to function just fine with ANY factory ammo available on this planet).

So... 2 things:

A) Who's your buddy? (I mean is he an experienced shooter, and more relevant, is he an experienced Glock shooter?)

and FTF "slamming a mag into the well" means exactly what? (This just seems suspect since even a Glock with a totally worn out recoil spring or worn out mag spring will feed a round off the top of the mag about 100% of the time... Glock feed ramps are ridiculously un-finicky, mine will feed empty brass for christ's sake )

Not to sound like a broken record here, but I still suspect it's just limp-wristing and a case of not giving the gun a rigid enough platform to work correctly (even during slamming the mag home).

The only other thing I can think of is that if you got this gun used the previous owner may have installed a really light recoil spring for shooting super-soft "bunny-fart loads" and that it may have worn too soft to work right with average factory stuff, and if that's the case you can get a new recoil assembly for like $5. Here's how to test your recoil spring: unload it and be sure it's safe, dry-fire it, hold the trigger back and point it straight up at the ceiling and pull back the slide all the way back... then while holding the slide let it go forward slowly under it's own power... if it doesn't lock-up fully into battery it's your recoil spring being worn-out and you need a new one, end of story. OR maybe the previous owner was an idiot and went the other way and put in a way-too-strong recoil spring which will actually increase the likelihood of limp-wrist-type problems, as well as cause "short-stroking" (slide not moving through it's full range to pick up a fresh round or having the slide outrun the mag spring in a rush to return to battery) - it's idiotic, but lots of goofballs think a stronger spring is better or somehow more reliable when they're actually just f'ing up their gun...

Glocks are super simple designs, in fact, there isn't even really a whole lot of places for them to mess up they're so simple...

Edited February 16, 2010 by CK1

[Peace]

Great questions: All recent ammo has been 180grain - A while ago I did shoot some 155grain WWB - which actually fed really well.

So:

A) my buddy is an experienced shooter - more with kimber and sig than Glock, but shooting is very much a part of his profession. Let's just say he's a protects some stuff for Uncle Sam that we really don't want any bad guys to get near. - again, though, good point in that he does not spend all of his time with Glocks. I'll just say that it's a little frustrating that his Kimber .45 had absolutely zero issues while we both shot it yesterday, and my ultra-reliable Glock continued with its shenanigans. I'm beginning to be more hesitant to think that it is "us".

B)exactly that - loading a fresh mag (10-12 rounds in it) and slamming it home which releases the slide and, hopefully chambers a round - 3 times it failed to chamber the round when the slide released (just slamming the mag in - not using the slide release lever).

C) The gun is new - purchased new from a dealer in December of 09. No mods - no work done on it.

Thanks again.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Peace

[Guest Broomhead]

Kimbers and Sigs are different beasts than Glocks. Glocks are a blow-back design and therefore more prone to limp-wristing. Even superbly experienced shooters can have problems with blow-backs if they are not used to them.

You may want to try polishing the feed ramp, especially if there are any bumps or rough areas on it.

[Peace]

Thnx.

So - could it just be that - being so new, the spring is a little strong? That would explain that FTF when seating the mag.

[Guest Broomhead]

Yeah, it may just need some more break-in time. Every gun on the market has the potential to have teething problems within the first 500-800rds. Don't give up on it yet.

[Guest CK1]

Hmmm... Well, watch this:YouTube - Milspecmonkey.com Shotshow 2007 Glock - at about 1:30 into the vid he shows you the correct way to grip a Glock... Since Sevigny is a shooting alien/robot from outer space and is way better at it than all of us, if you do it like him and you're still having trouble then I don't know

If your buddy isn't really used to Glocks he very well could be limp-wristing that sucker too... Sigs and such are different (Sigs in particular usually mess with shooters that have good grip technique since a good modern grip will have your thumb right about on top of the slide-release and have your support hand all over the de-cocker lever), the Glock's lower weight make it more sensitive to limp-wristing issues and lots of guys don't even know they do it until they encounter a Glock (and while he carries a gun for his job that doesn't necessarily mean much to me since my dog goes shooting almost as much and shoots about as good as most LEO's I know...)

Good luck!

Edited February 16, 2010 by CK1

[Guest Ae-35]

Glock is NOT a "Blow-back" design !!!!!! It fires from a locked-breech, with a tilting barrel just like a 1911. They do make a 380 that fires from a blow-back design, but that is the ONLY one and it's not available for civilian sell in the US.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Ae-35

[Peace]

Thanks for clarification. . . ok, so any clue as to what that means for working toward diagnosing this problem?