New to TGO and reloading

[eastenn]

Hello everyone, I recently found TGO and registered about a week ago but just got the moderator approval yesterday. I live in Blountville and recently obtained my HCP.

I've also taken a recent interest in reloading. I was talking to my father about it and he reminded me about all the reloading equipment he used to use (18-20 years ago) and told me it should still be over in a storage shed on a piece of property we lived on in SW VA when I was younger. He said go get it, that someone needed to be using it. So a friend of mine helped me gather all we could find in that old building and I brought it all back out to my house.

I don't know all the appropriate terms for the items so bear with me, but the press and the powder dispenser were both a little rusty and mostly locked up. After cleaning them with gun cleaner and wd-40 they both loosened up nicely. We found #1,2,3 dies for 38 special, and #1,2 dies for 30-06. Also a scale and a micrometer that appear brand new in the box. He homemade a tumbler using pvc and some kind of motor, which still works but the motor is a little weak if loaded with too much weight. There were lots of miscellaneous casings, some primers for small pistol, large pistol, and large rifle. 3 containers of gun powder, some case lube and pads, and several other small things. The press is a Lee precision with the turret on top.

There were also 4 books on reloading and I have read through the relevant chapters in each. The ABC's was the hardest to read through, while the Lyman was the easiest, simplest, and most informative for what a beginner would need. Well, after getting everything out here I made a little section of table next to my work bench to mount my reloading hardware. Seeing that he had the dies for 38 special, and I had been wanting to purchase a revolver I went to the gun show yesterday and picked up a S&W 442. I went and shot a few rounds through it and kept the casings to bring home. I tried a couple in the press and got through the first couple steps of resizing the case, popping the primer, resizing the mouth and seating a new primer. That's where I stopped, but I noticed after seating the new primer it didn't protrude from the case (as warned not to in the books), but it also wasn't recessed into the case at all (as suggested). The small T shaped piece on the press that seats the primer doesn't appear to be adjustable, and I was dropping the lever as far as it would go to try and seat it farther. I also noticed that some of the 38 special bullets that dad seated (from almost 20 years ago) also had the primer as I described, nearly flush with the bottom of the case. Can anyone direct me as to how to adjust how far the primer gets seated?

I haven't purchased any new gun powder yet, but I may try a few with the old powder just to practice with the press. Would there be any danger in shooting the old stuff? I figure it may just not fire, and to be safe just wait and make sure it doesn't hang fire.

Sorry for the long first post, but I appreciate any information provided. Here are a few pics of my reloading setup as well as my new, first revolver.

[glockster157]

Welcome aboard Eastenn. You have come to a good place for info. One thing I notice right away is that you have a couple of pounds of 2400 and a pound of Bullseye. The Bullseye should work well for your 38 special and your SA Auto but save the 2400 for the magnum revolvers. Also, I am sending you some more info. Check your messages.

[Guest nj.piney]

welcome

[DWARREN123]

Howdy Eastenn and Welcome to TGO

The powder should be good if it was sealed and has not changed color or does not have a bad smell.

The primers may seat at diiferent depths depending on the brass, just as long as they are level with or slightly below the brass.

Give it a little time and more folks will be along to help.

[Guest BEARMAN]

Welcome Eastenn, from Gainesboro, you have found the right place for reloading help, my friend.

[eastenn]

Thanks for all the friendly responses and welcomes. I was pretty excited when I found this forum for a couple reasons, for one it appears to have a lot of active members and topics, and two, those members are localized.

I just bought my first handgun this past october and it really sparked an interest. Since, I have purchased a rifle, shotgun, and two more handguns. Thanks for any tips on reloading. As stated, I've been mostly reading about it and the only hands on I have with it has got as far as seating a new primer. I'm sure I'll have some more questions and issues come up shortly. I've also been looking at ordering a set of 9mm dies. Would you suggest buying an extra turret for each set of dies, that way I can just swap the turrets with dies already in place?

[xd shooter]

Yes definatly get a seperate turret for each caliber.

Also is that a 3 or 4 hole turret? If it is 3 I beleive Lee sells a conversion to change it to 4.

I would suggest a 4 hole for pistol so you have a hole for a crimp die.

Edited February 14, 2010 by xd shooter

[56FordGuy]

Would you suggest buying an extra turret for each set of dies, that way I can just swap the turrets with dies already in place?

It wouldn't be a bad idea. Just make sure you order a 3 hole turret, not a 4 hole. The 4 won't work properly in a 3 hole press.

[eastenn]

so i should be able to get this 4 turret ring which would accept the 4 hole turrets?

if that's the case i guess I would also have to order an extra 4 hole turret for the 3 38 special dies i have now

[gregintenn]

Before you try loading the 30-06s, you need a case trimmer and a case mouth beveling tool. A small but necessary investment.The 06 is what the 4064 powder was likely purchased for.

[eastenn]

Hm thanks for the info. I don't plan on doing the 30-06's anytime soon, but is the deburring tool the same thing as the beveling tool you are talking about? If so, I do have the deburrinig tool. AFAIK, I do not have the case trimmer though.

[gregintenn]

I guess. One side chamfers the inside of the case mouth and the other end chamfers the outside.

[Guest Arko]

I'm not a reloader yet, but I'll say welcome just the same!

[eastenn]

thanks arko for the welcome.

greg, i think this is what you are talking about, at least this is what i have.

[glockster157]

thanks arko for the welcome.

greg, i think this is what you are talking about, at least this is what i have.

This is a deburring/chamfer tool. I just sized and trimmed 120 30/06 cases. Left a good burr on the inside and outside of the case mouth. This tool cuts them both off. The first time you load factory cases they need to be chamfered on the inside only if they don't need to be trimmed. Watch those case lengths on bottle necked rifles. I never trim my auto brass and since straight walled cases have to be flared I usually don't worry about chamfering them either.

[Guest cjr]

Howdy from Gray,TN.

[LngRngShtr]

WELCOME TO TGO !

my 2 cents....

What I don't see in your setup :

A. Loading block- to hold shell casings while charging them with powder.

B. Overhead lighting- easier to look down into shell casings after charging to detect no or excessive powder levels both bad things to do

C. Scale cover - I have a cover for my Ohaus but use a box to cover my RCBS back up scale and I set the scale at eye level basically on your upper shelf, easier for me to judge the charge accurately, taking it down and setting it up will not serve you set it up once and only take it down if you move..

I am glad to see dial calipers, a new up to date manual would be advised because powders have changed and some of the old data can be "hot" by todays standards

As far as your press I will defer to those that run red presses,.. I use an old Lyman single stage and a Dillon

As others have stated a 4 position is preferred as seating and crimping should be separate operations.

Wipe off the WD-40 and lube the ram with some Breakfree or light oil WD-40,along with no real lubrication properties, will gum up and leave a varnish,..DO NOT get any lube of any kind on your priming arm you will load dud ammo..

Get good with pistol ammo then move to rifle if you desire, there are a few more steps..trimming,case lube etc.

Enjoy ! ask any and as many questions as you like and above all be safe..

John

[eastenn]

glockster, do you chamfer the inside of all your first time reloaded rounds (handgun and long gun) or just long guns?

cjr, howdy neighbor..

LngRng,

those are helpful tips. I have thought about what to do for lighting, and i'm thinking some kind of flourescent desk lamp that i can attach to the desk or work bench.

also, i have two loading blocks, haven't checked to see what size rounds fit in them though.

and for a scale cover, do i just need something to keep dust off of it?

do you have a particular manual in mind? I wouldn't mind to purchase a newer one, seeing how I basically got all this equipment at no cost to me, I don't mind to spend a little to update or obtain other components i need.

last question, so handgun cases don't need lubed? i'm guessing since they are shorter it isn't required. i haven't read where it says to use it, but i haven't read chapters on reloading rifle rounds yet.

thanks guys, great help

[Guest Jason F.]

Welcome!

I personally like to use a florescent lamp on an articulating arm. The kind with the round florescent tube and the magnifying lens in the center. When stretched up at full range it casts nice bright light over my desk and when pulled down I can look at things in real detail. Mine is actually on a clamp base so it can be moved to another desk or table.

I am a newer reloader as well so most have covered things better than I can. I will say that I is commonly said that carbide dies do not require case lube to be used while standard steel dies do require it. Many say pistol dies do not need it but just as many say they like to use a little just to be on the safe side. It takes so little lube that it is of little consequence to use some on all your calibers. From what I have read just a little lube on the first few cases will leave enough residue in the die to keep working for a little while. You can lube every X number of cases as you go along.

[LngRngShtr]

glockster, do you chamfer the inside of all your first time reloaded rounds (handgun and long gun) or just long guns?

cjr, howdy neighbor..

LngRng,

those are helpful tips. I have thought about what to do for lighting, and i'm thinking some kind of flourescent desk lamp that i can attach to the desk or work bench.

also, i have two loading blocks, haven't checked to see what size rounds fit in them though.

and for a scale cover, do i just need something to keep dust off of it?

do you have a particular manual in mind? I wouldn't mind to purchase a newer one, seeing how I basically got all this equipment at no cost to me, I don't mind to spend a little to update or obtain other components i need.

last question, so handgun cases don't need lubed? i'm guessing since they are shorter it isn't required. i haven't read where it says to use it, but i haven't read chapters on reloading rifle rounds yet.

thanks guys, great help

chamfering is only to remove burrs,from trimming or primer pockets that are crimped, as in military rounds..the only handgun brass I ever trim is for a match pistol where an uneven length gives different crimp tensions but for most handguns this is unnecessary

Flourescents will be fine though some folks with electronic scales report them to cause errant readings due to some sort of electrical interference I have heard..

Usually loading blocks will come in a few sizes, just use one slightly larger than your casings so they don't stick in the block but are held well enough to not flop around while charging.

dust cover,.. as long as you don't have cats etc. that may knock them around, but yes dust will affect the scales balance points and may cause errant readings keep the balance points clean and you will be fine.. it would be wise to invest in a set of "check weights" since this is an older scale to verify it is still accurate,important if you ever venture into "+P" or top end loading where you wouldn't want to overload causing dangerous pressure

Any newer manual should be good I have a LEE and a Sierra manual Lyman is also good keep older manuals for reference, case measurements,design notes etc. but I use the newer for charge weight info

For the most part handgun cases shouldn't need lube, unless you are resizing some range finds fired from a larger chambered gun ( again military casings mostly)or reforming a case into a different caliber ( advanced technique, you may never need to do.)

Also keep a record of your choices of load combinations you would hate to get back from an awesome day at the range only to say to yourself " man I need to make more of those,... now what was it I used??" it will also help you weed out the loads that won't shoot straight in your particular firearms.

I do this for most of my handguns and ALL of my rifles, record keeping is very important to optimize your shooting while weeding out the "ho-hum" from the "awesome" also label your boxes,bags or whatever you store your loaded ammo in so you can reference back to the book.

DO NOT Trust your memory,.. was it 4.5 grains or 5.4 ? a 115 grain or a 158 grain bullet.. you could go from a nice load to a +p real quick if you get it wrong on a guess.. and that isn't a good surprise..

John

[eastenn]

hey jason that sounds like a good setup i will have to check around here for something along those lines. i looked through the lighting at lowe's but didn't see anything there.

check weights sound like a good idea. i hadn't thought of them, but it had crossed my mind on how i would verify the accuracy of the scale. i talked to a guy that lives down the road from me and he was telling me the importance of taking good records on different loads. maybe tomorrow after work i can try working with it some. thanks again everyone.

[eastenn]

John, I like your signature. Much appreciated.

[eastenn]

okay i messed around with things a little this evening. i got the scale out and tried to zero it using the instructions that were in the box with it. when i got it out of the box, the left leg was lowered about an inch, but it was no where near zero. i tightened the leg all the way up, still no zero, propped the right side up on the primers and it got a little closer to zero. are there other adjustments i can make or what am i missing here?

since i couldn't get my scale zeroed, i decided to skip the whole powder part and work on seating some bullets. i will gladly accept any criticism, but review my thought process here. First off, the 6th bullet is a factory Federal American Eagle and the 5th bullet is one my dad made back in the day. I did the other 4 starting from left to right.

#1 - the bullet isn't seated far enough

#2 - bullet seated too far

#3 - close on seating, but crimped too low

#4 - good seating, good crimp?

Give me some feedback on my diagnosing.

[glockster157]

OK, Number 5 there in your picture looks pretty good. Numbers 1-3 are way overcrimped. As to the scale get the primer tray out from under the it and screw the level screw out about halfway. Set all the beam settings to 0. If you are not in the ball park of 0 here, you probably have the wrong pan or pan holder on that scale(too heavy or light). There is no reason that good looking RCBS 5-0-5 can't zero on a level table.

Edited February 17, 2010 by glockster157

[LngRngShtr]

OK,..

the scale is wayyy off.. lose the green primer flip tray and turn up the thumb wheel on the left side,..( white foot) on mine is about a thumb width ( 1 inch ) up from the bench (rough zero) next, remove the armature and check the beam for any goo,grit, or rust... and check the V balance points for any of the same.. reassemble and lightly press down on the pan and see if she comes back,..Also check the "copper" bar at the needle end of the beam to ensure clearance..get some known weight items, or check weights and find the difference..

The other thing that can happen is the pan counterweights under the screw beneath the pan can sometimes leave ( mystery like socks in the washer) .. if you carefully remove pan and armature you can remove the screw, do this in a small box as you should find small lead shot in there and it is easily lost, add the difference in shot to get ZERO with the check weights.

I have done this with mine and recalibrated using the check weights and 2 other scales to verify, my scale was second hand and it was off, these things happen sometimes double check with the weights or another scale..

My money would be on the pivot points having friction due to long term storage...Hopefully a good cleaning will restore the workings,do not oil them, just get it as clean as can be

If not then you can either,.

1. call RCBS and see if they will refurbish the scale

2. you mentioned a guy down the road, have him give a look see and maybe weigh some bullets in his scale then yours to figure the discrepancy..and adjust the pan hanger as noted above

3. Buy a new scale.

the crimp on your ammo looks good but heavier than the factory round but this could be due to a different bullet. as long as you straight edge the casing and don't create a bulge near the end of the cartridge or leave a flare you should be OK try pressing the round into the edge of the table bullet first, it shouldn't push back into the case

The seating die has a plug in it and it should match your projectile, the reason I bring this up is the loaded rounds have a bump on them and the last pic the slug is not bumped near the top, this is also a good reason to seat then crimp as a separate operation less bullet deformation

I use a Taper Crimp on all my reloads, I can't tell you the last time I roll crimped which is what you have above, nor can I tell you which is better other than I can pull a roll crimped bullet easier than a taper crimped bullet in my inertia puller.. don't even think of trying to pull a 148gr. wadcutter it isn't going to happen..

Hope this helps,

John