Hypothetical...

[Parrothead]

i have played this situation out in my head a few times and i cant come to a solid answer. Therefor, i will ask ya'll

Lets assume you are in a bad part of town. HCP and pistola on hand. We will pretend someone approaches the vehicle with a weapon. You fired on the individual in fear for your life. Threat is neutralized....but....you are in his "neighborhood." We will assume numerous witnesses are around and begin to act hostile. After phoning the police for help, can you drive away from the scene of the crime in order to avoid further confrontations? Would this be leaving the scene of a crime and hurt you in court when that day comes?

to clarify; i dont mean drive 20+miles after the issue. I mean drive away from danger. Prob no more than a few miles. This would be communicated to the dispatcher at the time also.

[Wingshooter]

IMHO...

The goal is to stay alive and well. If I had to leave the scene out of fear of bodily harm, then I would do what would keep me safe. If that was communicated to the 911 operator, I think that would also help justify the actions. However, I would only leave if it was absolutely necessary.

Be leaving, there is the risk that evidence supporting a justifiable self defense shooting might be destroyed or altered, but that's better than being overrun by the thug's buddies.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Batman

[Guest Republican]

You could probably just drive to the local police department. I think that would be best given the circumstances in your post. No real reason to hang around the hood. What are you doing in this part of town anyways? lol

[daddyo]

You fired on him just for approaching your car? Why would you just not drive away to avoid the situation?

[Parrothead]

You fired on him just for approaching your car? Why would you just not drive away to avoid the situation?

short of writing a book, i didn't include this option. Assume its not a option for whatever reason. Not really the point of the post. any resonable person would avoid this situation if possible......but......***** happens

i dont want this to turn into another frontsite post. You cant drive away.....you already fired shots. Now what?

[rentalguy1]

In the military, you are trained to ALWAYS charge through a ambush. When the bad guys ambush, you stomp on the accelerator! It would be best to explain to the dispatcher, who is still on the phone, that you are trying to get away from more bad guys, and that you'll give him/her your location as soon as you calm down. It would also be helpful to the rest of society if you are able to return fire while maneuvering and maintaining comms.

[Volzfan]

After phoning the police for help, can you drive away from the scene of the crime in order to avoid further confrontations? Would this be leaving the scene of a crime and hurt you in court when that day comes?

to clarify; i dont mean drive 20+miles after the issue. I mean drive away from danger. Prob no more than a few miles. This would be communicated to the dispatcher at the time also.

i dont want this to turn into another frontsite post. You cant drive away.....you already fired shots. Now what?

If you can't drive away before the shooting, why can you now drive away after the shooting? You seem to be contradicting yourself.

[nightrunner]

Id be going WOT as soon as I could.

[gregintenn]

This happened to me and some friends one night. We were going to a motorcycle race in an unfamiliar town and made a wrong turn somewhere. We weren't in the best part of town. We were going down a street when numerous "brothers" strolled out and lined up across the road facing us. My friend turned to me, white as a sheet, and asked what I thought we should do. I told him if he wanted to get home that night he'd better step on the accelerator. That worked, and is what I'd do in the situation you presented as well. A car is a far better defensive weapon than a handgun.

[Guest BEARMAN]

So, Parrothead...now that you have heard their response for your scenario...what would you do, if this played out in your world?

"Inquiring minds want to know"

[Guest db99wj]

How about we look at this scenario without throwing what could have happened, or what if this or that happened and other possible scenarios.

For many reasons, you had to fire, for whatever reason, you fired, lets assume it is justified. You are at scene, thug buddies start coming up, IMO, get out of there, get on the phone to 911, tell them what is going on, you were fearful if getting hurt by his buddies, and that you will return once the police arrive and 911 tells you that it is ok. The phone call will be recorded. At that point, it would seem things could work out.

Problems with this could be is not physically or mentally able to drive away, due to no knowing how you will react in this high stress situation, hopefully the adrennalyn will help you get out of the area and to safety. Most areas that are bad areas, are known by the police, DA, etc, as bad areas. I would rather explain, even in court, why I left the scene, called 911, returned, then be dead.

As for why you are in the area in the first place, many reasons. 1. You could have made a wrong turn. 2. You could be on your way to one place, and have to go through this place to get there, 3. You might be working or something.

For example, I am an appraiser, I have had to go on one of the worst streets in Memphis to take a picture of a house, Lauderdale at South Parkway, I had my gun out of my holster in that area, lots of folks just "hangin" out. Don't usually do houses, but this was a portfolio of 10 rentals. Also, many industrial areas, require you to drive through the ghetto's. I also appraise church's, they are in bad areas as well.

[Parrothead]

How about we look at this scenario without throwing what could have happened, or what if this or that happened and other possible scenarios.

For many reasons, you had to fire, for whatever reason, you fired, lets assume it is justified. You are at scene, thug buddies start coming up, IMO, get out of there, get on the phone to 911, tell them what is going on, you were fearful if getting hurt by his buddies, and that you will return once the police arrive and 911 tells you that it is ok. The phone call will be recorded. At that point, it would seem things could work out.

Problems with this could be is not physically or mentally able to drive away, due to no knowing how you will react in this high stress situation, hopefully the adrennalyn will help you get out of the area and to safety. Most areas that are bad areas, are known by the police, DA, etc, as bad areas. I would rather explain, even in court, why I left the scene, called 911, returned, then be dead.

As for why you are in the area in the first place, many reasons. 1. You could have made a wrong turn. 2. You could be on your way to one place, and have to go through this place to get there, 3. You might be working or something.

For example, I am an appraiser, I have had to go on one of the worst streets in Memphis to take a picture of a house, Lauderdale at South Parkway, I had my gun out of my holster in that area, lots of folks just "hangin" out. Don't usually do houses, but this was a portfolio of 10 rentals. Also, many industrial areas, require you to drive through the ghetto's. I also appraise church's, they are in bad areas as well.

Nice reply....this is the kind of info i was looking for.

As for those who wonder what i would do, i would get the hell out of there is at all possible. The legal consequences would be minimal (assume you call 911 and document your actions and your willingness to work with LEO's when requested) compared to a shoot off in the hood'.....Just my opinion

To me, it's helpful to bounce ideas of some more experienced permit holders to verify my thoughts line up with the majority.

[daddyo]

YO! maybe he approached to helps. you obviosly dont belong there. you gonna hole the man for that? You a bigot to?

No, I wouldn't be there in the first place. I don't do ghetto.

BTW, first one to play the race card is ALWAYS the bigot. That would be you. Yo.

[daddyo]

I feels like I'm in the craker south granny used to talk of.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Buh-bye!

[Guest bkelm18]

[daddyo]

you now gonna pretend you don't know whats being talked about?

You gonna keep pretending you're a gangsta? Does your mommy know you're using her computer?

[Guest The91Bravo]

As a Cop I go to neighborhoods of all types at all hours. On and off duty. So let's remove the badge.

I engage a threat (we will assume this was a felonious assault for the argument) neutralize the threat, and start coming down off the adrenalin dump. Neighbors start to gather, but in this scenario, we will state that they are not saying 'are you okay?' but they are coming at you with bats, or other weapons.

You managed to fight your way back to a safe haven (your vehicle) and are on the phone with dispatch. You tell them that you are in fear of further bodily harm. You start your motor, and put it into drive. Keep your weapon in one hand. Start to drive out. If they get in the way, continue to drive slowly. If any weapons appear, you shoot, drive, ram anybody who is an immediate threat to your life. If they all step back and calm down, then there is no reasonable fear of harm, then do not do anything further. The actions you need to take to survive are just that.. actions NEEDED to survive.

Color of any skin does not matter in this situation. Our 'gangsta' assumed it was a white guy in a black neighborhood. That is close minded thinking to the usual racist attitude. This could happen in any ethnic area in any metro type environment.

So, pick up your race cards and go back to wherever you came from. We're not dealing that hand. You are.

Sincerely, a cop.

[daddyo]

How about this race card, doc?

Or this one...

"Brothers" bother you much?

[Guest db99wj]

Why assume it was justified? Cuz they african american or "brothers"? how many rocks you you dudes smok? Tn. Home of the KKK.

Because that is the scenario that is playing out here, if you put a color of skin in, that is on you.

It is not the color of skin that this scenario, the areas that are being spoken about, or the people we are talking about. Thugs, gang members, and criminals come in all colors and nationality, especially in a diverse city like Memphis. I carry my gun always, in a IWB holster with my shirt tucked in. If I'm in an area that is high crime area, (if you need a source for this, this is a good one, Memphis Crime Tracker - crime.commercialappeal.com), I will make the appropriate adjustments (untuck shirt, in my old Jeep, I had a holster between the seat and the console). It is not easy getting to a handgun that is hindered by your shirt and seat belt, I've practiced this so that I can be effective in drawing in a situation such as a car jacking.

The church's that I have appraised have taken me all over Memphis. The church members/leaders I have met have been great people trying to do what God tells us. One of the things that is amazing about church's, the ones in the worst area, are trying, and succeeding in doing great things, to keep their members and the children of the community out of these gangs and out of the criminal lifestyle. There are miracles happening in these church's.

Crime is crime, thugs are thugs, somebody trying to hurt or kill me is somebody trying to hurt or kill me...period, and in Memphis, that can happen anywhere. However, there are areas that have higher incidents of crime, if you are offended by that, do something about it in those communities.

[Guest Glocked-N-Loaded]

So wait, you are in his neighborhood, you just shot an armed individual and are going to drive away? Drive away from the scene where any one of the "friends" you were in fear of could remove the suspects weapon and then can formulate a story as to how you simply gunned him down and then drove away.... your word against theirs? I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, simply providing another way to look at it. I myself, would scan the area for additional threats, called 911 and held my position as long as humanly possible. It would take a whole lot more than a few of his buddies mean-mugging me for me to give up my position. I would order them back at gun point if they were approaching me and act further from there. Acting hostile and being hostile are 2 different things, if these individuals had produced weapons and were placing me in fear of my safety than I would have no choice but to retreat.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Glocked-N-Loaded

[Guest drv2fst]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

[Guest Glocked-N-Loaded]

That's definitely one way to look at it, another is that with you in jail your wife and kids get nothing except maybe sued by the others family.

[Guest drv2fst]

Glocked, you cracked me up. I guess I was being selfish. Well, at least they get to cash in the life insurance policy.

[Guest Glocked-N-Loaded]

LOL, that's one way to look at it. There's no right answer in these scenarios really... we could come up with an infinite number of scenarios as to what happened after the shooting but it would all be in vain. You leave, a neighborhood dog comes by, urinates on the suspects weapon and hand removing any fingerprints and the acidic nature of the urine removed any traces of gun powder residue from the suspects hand. Ultimately, as stated previously, you should not try and leave unless you are being presented with an immediate threat to your safety, then retreat, regroup, and wait for the calvary.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Glocked-N-Loaded

[Guest Ggun]

I'm with G_N_L! Set up a perimeter and hunker down for whatever comes your way. You gotta safeguard the evidence. Might be a good idea to call 911, too.