When to use deadly force

[Tnscooter63]

If this guy was well known to "Metro" I would think they'd applaud you for getting rid of him for them.

How many of you would have gotten out of the car if someone smacked it with a wrench? Changes the game a bit, huh?

+1 with alot of witnesses there including camera

First hit to the car the seatbelt would be off and then seeing him coming around I would get out with hand on gun, I dont like feeling trapped nowhere and if he kept coming and or raising the weapon after commands I would definately shot. I try to leave myself an out at all times but sometimes the only out is straight ahead.

[Guest broncobuddha]

Frankly, there are some here who talk like BA rednecks and I don't get the impression that they have the foggiest notion of the responsibility that comes with the carry permit and the weapon.

When you have nothing between you and him, no door, no glass, and there's no room to escape, and you GENUINELY FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE, then it's justified. Not just because he messed up your car. Last time I checked, you can't drop someone just because they are destroying your property.

If you kill him and the police or the jury determines that you were not in imminent danger of losing your life, then get ready to say hello to Bubba in your new jail cell.

Just destroying your car/property, no, but the moment he swings at/through one of the windows, he risks striking someone with that tire iron and it could easily have seriously injured someone.

[mikegideon]

He was shot and killed 2 weeks after this video. It was in Las Vegas.

And, did the shooter go to jail, or get 5 free nights at the Mirage?

[dats82]

You might not could shot him, but I sure as hell could make a good case for running over a jaywalker.

Actually, looking at the video, as soon as he was on the driver side of the vehicle, I think the driver could have used deadly force for sure. I will be damned if I would just sit there thinking a piece of glass is sufficient protection.

[Guest Republican]

Wow. ???? I bet he wouldnt have been such a bad ash after the first couple rounds hit him. He would be like, "This aint my corna no mo, you can have my crack and dem hos in the back. Just please dont shoot me no mo!" LOL

[Guest manofsteel]

When he hit my car the first time, Im getting out. When he comes around to my side with something in his hand to use it on me, YES I will drop him period. That is what my lawyer is for. If I go to jail for defending my self or my family so be it.

[Fire/hunting guy]

Here's another question. If you are in one of the other cars watching this happen, when do you, if ever, get involved? When can you legally?

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

This video is very old and I think the only reason it has re-surfaced is because Front Site chose to use it for a promotion.

It was discussed at length on another forum last year and has even re-surfaced there. The conclusion as to location was given by someone who was familiar with the area.

Personally I have no idea nor do I care But if the person is correct and I do tend to believe him, there was no legal shoot option available. Of course if it happened here we would have more options.

Snip

Culver City, California. Intersection of Sepulveda Blvd., Jefferson Blvd., and Sawtelle Blvd. The blue car is on Jefferson, merging southbound onto Sepulveda, just before Sawtelle.

L.A. County, California: No concealed weapons permitted. No open carry of loaded weapons permitted.

Only legal options: Drive away, or use the car to kill him.

Snip

I guess if someone wanted to, they could use Google Earth and use these street names to figure it out for sure. I am not going to worry about it.

But whoever it was that said the fool was killed two weeks later I surely dont doubt that part especially if he continued such suicidal behavior no matter where he was. He surely would not live long in TN

As for me....I will not make a call of shoot or not shoot until it happens to me. There are simply too many variables involved, can I get out, are the kids in the car? Things like that make a huge difference to me. So I will reserve a shoot or no shoot call............ but I do have an idea;)

Also the idea of the readily available weapon of choice and the fact that a camera was running make this whole thing suspect to me.

And for FWIW when I clicked on the thing just to make sure it was the same video, the site installed something called KIWI-9 tool bar and IM and some other stuff on my machine. When I UN-installed it, the stupid thing thanked me for trying their BETA version:rolleyes:

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Here's another question. If you are in one of the other cars watching this happen, when do you, if ever, get involved? When can you legally?

If it is me watching I am calling 911 First and Foremost.

As for getting involved....NOT until someone's life is in danger or they are in danger of suffering serious bodily harm.....IE the fool hits the person with the crow bar rather than any part including the windows of the car.

Some would say beating the windows in could cause someone to be injured....I agree with that but I would not fire on them until they hit the person.

This is just my opinion and I am surely no lawyer nor LEO.

[Guest 10mm4me]

As soon as that stupid ***REMOVED*** touched my vehicle w/his improvised weapon he would have gotten (3) mags of 10mm dumped into his worthless a**

Edited February 11, 2010 by Fallguy
Racist terms not allowed

[daddyo]

Yeah, lots of tough talk. It's usually different when you're faced with it.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

As soon as that stupid ***REMOVED*** touched my vehicle w/his improvised weapon he would have gotten (3) mags of 10mm dumped into his worthless a**

So long as you dont mind being rommies with his hommies for the rest of your life, keep that thought.

You do not have the right to use deadly force to defend your property in TN.

He hits your vehicle and you shoot him YOU go to jail. FWIW

Edited February 12, 2010 by Sgt. Joe
Remove racial comment from quoted post

[crnchy]

Inappropriate racial slur... although the guy doesn't deserve any respect we should respect everyone else by not using the words which might offend some people

[Guest benchpresspower]

So long as you dont mind being rommies with his hommies for the rest of your life, keep that thought.

You do not have the right to use deadly force to defend your property in TN.

He hits your vehicle and you shoot him YOU go to jail. FWIW

Would it fall along the lines of the Castle Doctrine law? It is clear that he is forceably entering, but he didn't actually open the door.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Just destroying your car/property, no, but the moment he swings at/through one of the windows, he risks striking someone with that tire iron and it could easily have seriously injured someone.

I didn't know there were degrees of fearing for your life.

I also thought the Castle Doctrine defined your property

to include your car. I could be wrong there. Anyway,

if I felt my life or anyone in my car was threatened,

yes I would use deadly force.

Just so you know, I wouldn't want to kill anyone. I doubt

anyone else on here would want to either, but faced

with the prospect of life and death, I think I would do

what had to be done. Is that better?

[Jasongar8]

Yeah, lots of tough talk. It's usually different when you're faced with it.

It really seems like you think you are the only one who would know what to do in that situation. Talking about how everyone here is just full of "tough talk". At the end of the day no one, not even you, knows how they will react until they are in that EXACT situation.

[Oh Shoot]

Would it fall along the lines of the Castle Doctrine law? It is clear that he is forceably entering, but he didn't actually open the door.

10mm4me might have a legal leg to stand on in TN if he waited till window is broken, rather than "as soon as he touched my vehicle".

- OS

[daddyo]

It really seems like you think you are the only one who would know what to do in that situation. Talking about how everyone here is just full of "tough talk". At the end of the day no one, not even you, knows how they will react until they are in that EXACT situation.

Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion because that's not what I said at all. Neither did I say that "everyone" here is full of tough talk. Did you just read into my comments what you wanted to?

And your last statement is exactly the point I was making. Congratulations, chief.

[Jasongar8]

Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion because that's not what I said at all. Neither did I say that "everyone" here is full of tough talk. Did you just read into my comments what you wanted to?

And your last statement is exactly the point I was making. Congratulations, chief.

Lots of real tough talk on here. Have those of you who say you would blast the guy even thought about the aftermath and the legal implications? If you haven't, you better.

Frankly, there are some here who talk like BA rednecks and I don't get the impression that they have the foggiest notion of the responsibility that comes with the carry permit and the weapon.

Yeah, lots of tough talk. It's usually different when you're faced with it.

Ok 3 out of 5 post. Chief.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Inappropriate racial slur... although the guy doesn't deserve any respect we should respect everyone else by not using the words which might offend some people

I agree.

Would it fall along the lines of the Castle Doctrine law? It is clear that he is forceably entering, but he didn't actually open the door.

As far as I understand it our Castle Doctrine does not extend to our cars in TN like it does in other states. If it did we would not need a permit to carry a weapon in our cars, just like we dont need a permit to have a weapon in our homes.

As for this whole video it is really a gray area....

Anytime you can convince the DA and or the members of a Jury that you had a "reasonable" fear of your life you would be OK.

This may be possible in a case such as the video and then again it may not. It will always depend on the DA and what that person thinks, and if the DA does not think you were justified then you are off to convince the Jury.

You may well be scared enough to wet yourself but unless "other" people agree that you should have been that scared you will be in trouble.

It is all too easy to sit back and say "I would do this or that" from a computer. I would bet Big Bucks that if all the person did was strike your car and you emptied several mags into them it would not go well for you.

It disappoints me to read some of the responses as our permits are not a License to Kill, and from some of the posts it appears that some do think that way.

Again I am no Lawyer nor LEO just an ole man with an opinion:)

[crnchy]

I can honestly say that I probably would have pulled my gun out after the first time he hit my car and seriously considered shooting once he hit the windshield considering that there was no way to drive away.

A crowbar is a deadly weapon and I would have honestly feared for my life if a crazy man came and started beating on my vehicle while yelling and cussing for no apparent reason. That seems like a SHTF situation to me. I do not think that I would have waited until he got to the drivers side window.

I might be WAY wrong - its just my honest opinion of how I would reacted. I would have feared for my life in that situation.

I appreciate this discussion - its really causing me to think about some things

[Oh Shoot]

...

As far as I understand it our Castle Doctrine does not extend to our cars in TN like it does in other states.

Yes, it does. Statute was revised in 2007 to include forcible entry into vehicles. Once a window is broken, would think that would indicate forcible entry.

Statute also strengthened the "no retreat necessary" in any situation where you have a legal right to be.

If it did we would not need a permit to carry a weapon in our cars, just like we dont need a permit to have a weapon in our homes.

Well, there is still the statute that says you won't be charged with a possession crime if you must use your firearm in justifiable self defense, whether you have permit or not. But I agree they should extend the no permit carry right to vehicles.

- OS

Edited February 11, 2010 by OhShoot

[Chucktshoes]

Inappropriate racial slur... although the guy doesn't deserve any respect we should respect everyone else by not using the words which might offend some people

+ 1

10mm4me, not cool man, not cool at all.

[Volphin]

This video was shot at the corner of West Sahara and Las Vegas Blvd. I travel to Vegas often and have shopped at the souvenir shop in the background. Also, please see the Stratosphere Hotel and Tower in the background. Looks like lunch rush hr.

FWIW, Nevada has no formal codified Castle Doctrine but uses CA as a guide. I know, sounds funny huh? A bill that would have codified the Castle Doctrine in Nevada was introduced in 09. In the past, Nevada has relied on California precedent when a citizen has had to protect him or herself in their home. This bill would have strengthened the defense of any Nevadan who needed to use force in defense of themselves or their families. The bill was introduced by Harry Mortensen (D-Las Vegas) and that's all there was to it. He put no effort behind it and never seemed to truly understand the importance of the issue. It died in committee. So no, the car would not have fallen under CD.

BUT, Clark County has always been pretty gun friendly IMO. You just have to be aware that casinos are off limits.

I would have pinned his little drug crazed butt between my front bumper and the car in front of me at the earliest opportunity. And when he raised the crowbar once again I would have applied pressure judiciously to the accelerator pedal until the threat was neutralized. Afterward, I would have gotten out and helped the new Lt. Dan to the curb for the bus.

Have a nice day now, ya hear?

[Erik88]

DaddyO,

I'm with you on this one, everyone can speculate what they would or wouldn't do but no one has a clue until they are in that position. A few of the guys on this thread are acting like they know 100% that if they shot it would connect with the BG.... This video really makes me want to get rid of the Acura and get a vehicle I can actually hop a curb with if need be or if I have to, push the car in front of me out of my way... I miss my 4Runner... Lets just hope we are never in that situation.