So a guy just walks in to my apartment

[Sandman]

For what's it worth, I think you did the right thing. You couldn't see his hands and therefore, in my mind, he would be a threat. He could have a gun ready to pull. Like you, I would have aimed my firearm, finger off trigger, and instructed him to leave. I would like to think I would have the nerve you did. Let's hope so. Good job.

[Krull]

You should have went R Lee Ermey on him. "what is your major malfunction ........!!!!!!"

[Alpha7]

Maybe you should have dusted him. One less illegal we would have to worry about. I bet if you had yelled La migra La Migra (immigration) while pointing that gun at him he would have run instead of standing there like a dunce.

[Alpha7]

I have to agree with jack on this one. There is no way that you should have pointed a loaded firearm at an unarmed man. I can understand a raised gun when the threat was unclear, but the second you assessed the situation, you should have lowered to the ready. You could have easily turned what might have been an honest mistake in to a VERY tragic situation. You could also have avoided something tragic happening to you, but from your description, you could have done that with your gun at the ready.

Unarmed or not if the is inside the home the assumption of great bodily injury or death is is also there. Therefore, he could have put a 45 through this dude and would not have gone to jail for it as due to the castle law you do not have to retreat if inside your home.

[Guest logicprevails]

I would say if presented with the same situation, I would hold center of mass while letting the individual know that they need to leave. Especially if I couldn't confirm whether they were armed, or not (and confirming that would take more than a few seconds). If he were, say, armed with a gun in his rear waistband, not having a muzzle pointed at his melon may have emboldened a draw attempt on his part. Just sayin'.

[Alpha7]

When it happened to me in athens I did the same thing this gentleman did assessed the situation but had the gun ready. However, that was years ago and if the dude was 6 feet inside my place and what not and was walking towards me and I could not see his hands I would have to shoot. The dude in athens hands were clear but was not sure whether he was armed or not until I assessed the situation.

[dunndw]

In my house without my permission, you'll be looking down the business end of a 1911...if not a AR15. If I tell you to leave and you don't...responding units better bring a mop.

Orange is for when they open the door and DON'T come in....RED is for when they are 6 FEET inside your home. Worrying about what color code he was in is kind of silly. As soon as the guy walked in the door he was posing a threat to the OP...armed or not.

He (the OP)

Recognized a potential threat

Confronted the threat

Resolved the situation using a minimal amount of force. No one bled...everyone went home.

Nicely done.

[Volzfan]

Living in Nashville and in an apartment, you should know of all of the crime that happens in most every area of town in the apartment complexes. I get crime reports from my councilman nearly every day that comes from the South Precinct. The Police have a huge focus on all apartments in this area because of the high numbers of crimes committed there. You should get with the councilman in your district and see if you can get the same reports. I don't think that you would have been as quick to leave the door unlocked had you read the reports that I have been reading for the last couple of years.

I think that you are very lucky that you didn't get shot or have to shoot the guy.

[Guest Straight Shooter]

RIGHT, dunndw... if THIS wasnt a RED situation, I dont know what the hell is. MY finger woulda been on the trigger, with sight alignment, and a clear sight picture.

After one hearty VAMOOSE! ole Juan woulda got the picture, I gaurantee.

[Guest db99wj]

Jack, if a stranger were to come into my house uninvited and unexpected while I was there, they would be looking down the barrel of a gun, and I would be assessing the situation from behind it. And I can assure you that no one that I would likely have to deal with, if the situation went south, would question my actions.

Someone I don't know, who's in my house without invitation, is certainly reason enough to be pointing a gun at them.

And it won't take much more than that to qualify as reason to pull the trigger. ( Speaking any language other than english just might do it by it's self. )

Nobody got shot, or even themselves to death. The OP did good.

End of story.

J.

P.S. Wrangler, I hope you have all your guns and other valuables secured, 'cause you may have just been scouted for a future burglary.

You forgot to rack the slide to let him know you were serious!

All kidding aside, I think you handled the situation superbly. Intruder (who may have made an honest mistake) departed and nobody was injured or killed. One for the win column.

So a random guy strolls into your home, you cannot see his hands. Please tell me how you would know he was unarmed? He could have had a gun or a knife concealed on him and at apartment distances, he could have been on you in a heartbeat. You are in YOUR home, he is an UNINVITED INTRUDER. I'm not going to risk getting murdered just because I think he MIGHT be unarmed. Believe it or not, you can kill someone with your bare hands too.

+1, +1, and +1

If someone enters into your home, uninvited, unannounced and is unknown to you, sounds like that a reasonable person could in fact be in fear of their life. If this happened to me, I would. Someone that comes into my home, that I don't know, nor opened the door for, didn't invite them in, or even knew they were there until I heard them, is up to no good. I have no reason to think otherwise since they are standing in my home. I hope, God forbid this ever happens to me, that I am able to stay calm like you did, assess the situation quickly and the situation resolve itself like it did.

One night was in bed, hadn't been in long, heard a crash in the kitchen, I was the last one in bed, the dog was in the bed too. I pulled the XD out, went to the kitchen, up in a ready position, looking down the slide in front of me, finger on the trigger. Because if someone was in my house, they came in the back door at around 11pm, with all our lights off, and that would mean they were up to no good. I was ready for whatever happened next, and that included pulling the trigger. Got to the kitchen and found that the trash can, that sits on top of the dog food can (big pop corn tins) had fallen over. I didn't shoot it. Took me awhile to go to sleep after that.

In my job as an appraiser, from time to time on inspections, we enter into places of business that are occupied, but no one answers the door. Could be a business or apartment. Usually I am with the owner, property manager, or maintenance manager and we always, basically beat on the door before we enter and once we open the door, call out very loudly who we are, for example, "MAINTENANCE or PROPERTY MANAGER". We have entered into locked businesses and someone be there in the back. I hate surprising people and do everything that we can not too.

So, as the ones I quoted above, I think you did great, I would have done the same thing, and no one got hurt.

[enfield]

That was a red enough situation for me.

Ya done good!

[Guest Ggun]

Dude, you gotta be careful. Pointing the barrel of a firearm at a doorway without ascertaining a target is out there on the fringe. Do you live in a war zone?

[Guest no_masters]

Living in Nashville and in an apartment, you should know of all of the crime that happens in most every area of town in the apartment complexes. I get crime reports from my councilman nearly every day that comes from the South Precinct. The Police have a huge focus on all apartments in this area because of the high numbers of crimes committed there. You should get with the councilman in your district and see if you can get the same reports. I don't think that you would have been as quick to leave the door unlocked had you read the reports that I have been reading for the last couple of years.

I live in an apartment in downtown and use this feature on their website

Crime Watch | Data Services | Tennessean

I check it almost daily to look for any kinds of trends or anything around me.

Im not real sure how accurate the info is but its update alot faster than the same service on the metro site.

That situation was handled extremely well.

Edited February 10, 2010 by no_masters

[Guest db99wj]

Dude, you gotta be careful. Pointing the barrel of a firearm at a doorway without ascertaining a target is out there on the fringe. Do you live in a war zone?

I assume you are quoting the OP, so I will say that he came into the room and there was a man standing in his doorway, and from subsequent posts, it appears he was inside the threshold of the door which places the dude into his home...sounds like the target was identified very clearly.

Also, on the fringe of what. There is nothing illegal about pointing your gun at your doorway. If the OP was point his gun at people walking by outside his window, then there is an issue, but that is not the case here. He simply heard someone come into HIS home.

[Guest Ggun]

I assume you are quoting the OP, so I will say that he came into the room and there was a man standing in his doorway, and from subsequent posts, it appears he was inside the threshold of the door which places the dude into his home...sounds like the target was identified very clearly.

Also, on the fringe of what. There is nothing illegal about pointing your gun at your doorway. If the OP was point his gun at people walking by outside his window, then there is an issue, but that is not the case here. He simply heard someone come into HIS home.

The OP flipped off his safety and pointed the firearm before ascertaining the target, i.e. walked out of his bedroom with the barrel pointed in front of him as he walked towards the door, then saw the person standing there. He didn't see the person beforehand from what I gather from the first posting.

The issue isn't one of legality, its one of being careful with firearms. One of the inviolate rules of firearms is knowing your target and what is beyond it. Close Quarters Combat is different.

[JReedEsq]

Unarmed or not if the is inside the home the assumption of great bodily injury or death is is also there. Therefore, he could have put a 45 through this dude and would not have gone to jail for it as due to the castle law you do not have to retreat if inside your home.

I am not posting to bash the OP. Let me repeat that, I'm not posting to bash the OP. He made a quick decision under lots pressure, no one got shot and he kept himself safe from harm. That is why we train. It is for self-preservation, not just to spill some blood.

I didn't really want to reply to this post since I've previously stated on the board that I'm an attorney. Before you read further understand that unless you've been in my office and signed a retainer agreement, please don't take what I say as legal advice that is applicable in to any specific factual scenario that you may be involved in.

I feel a duty to clarify a couple of things:

First, in Tennessee you must have a reasonable fear of imminent death or substantial bodily injury to be justified in using deadly force. The castle doctrine grants you a rebuttable presumption that your fear is reasonable if someone has invaded your residence. It is a wonderful defense and I'm glad we live in a state that has adopted it. It is only a defense, however, it doesn't guarantee you won't be prosecuted or even convicted of a crime. In English, the castle doctrine says your fear is reasonable if you act against a home invader unless the prosecution proves it otherwise. For example, if you left your door open and they could prove that you knew someone might be coming to your home to do repairs they may argue that your fear was unreasonable.

Second, you can still be prosecuted for a shooting in your own home. Let's say a drunk wanders in, a home repairman comes in without annoucing, or your super duper armor peircing bullets go through your assailant and into another painter who is saying, "hey asshat, wrong apartment". Any of these scenarios could result in criminal liability if a DA convinces a jury that you weren't reasonable. You could face anything from second-degree murder to voluntary manslaughter to negligent or reckless homicide. The castle doctrine is not a "get out of jail" free card and it only takes the slightest blurring of the lines (along with an overzealous DA or LEOs) to result in criminal prosecution. I'm a huge proponent of self-defense but please understand the possible results of your actions. Finally, if you are involved in any shooting, even if the charges are dismissed eventually, be aware that you will most certainly lose your HCP until the issue is completely resolved.

I apologize if the above is a little rambling. I felt a need to chime in but I've got no time to proof-read. Gotta get back to work.

Edited February 10, 2010 by JReedEsq

[Guest Ggun]

People living in apartment complexes where every apartment and apartment building in the complex all look alike really need to be careful about going into combat mode when somebody accidentally enters through their unlocked door or attempts to turn the door knob.

[Seaslug]

I am not posting to bash the OP. Let me repeat that, I'm not posting to bash the OP. He made a quick decision under lots pressure, no one got shot and he kept himself safe from harm. That is why we train. It is for self-preservation, not just to spill some blood.

I didn't really want to reply to this post since I've previously stated on the board that I'm an attorney. Before you read further understand that unless you've been in my office and signed a retainer agreement, please don't take what I say as legal advice that is applicable in to any specific factual scenario that you may be involved in.

I feel a duty to clarify a couple of things:

First, in Tennessee you must have a reasonable fear of imminent death or substantial bodily injury to be justified in using deadly force. The castle doctrine grants you a rebuttable presumption that your fear is reasonable if someone has invaded your residence. It is a wonderful defense and I'm glad we live in a state that has adopted it. It is only a defense, however, it doesn't guarantee you won't be prosecuted or even convicted of a crime. In English, the castle doctrine says your fear is reasonable if you act against a home invader unless the prosecution proves it otherwise. For example, if you left your door open and they could prove that you knew someone might be coming to your home to do repairs they may argue that your fear was unreasonable.

Second, you can still be prosecuted for a shooting in your own home. Let's say a drunk wanders in, a home repairman comes in without annoucing, or your super duper armor peircing bullets go through your assailant and into another painter who is saying, "hey asshat, wrong apartment". Any of these scenarios could result in criminal liability if a DA convinces a jury that you weren't reasonable. You could face anything from second-degree murder to voluntary manslaughter to negligent or reckless homicide. The castle doctrine is not a "get out of jail" free card and it only takes the slightest blurring of the lines (along with an overzealous DA or LEOs) to result in criminal prosecution. I'm a huge proponent of self-defense but please understand the possible results of your actions. Finally, if you are involved in any shooting, even if the charges are dismissed eventually, be aware that you will most certainly lose your HCP until the issue is completely resolved.

I apologize if the above is a little rambling. I felt a need to chime in but I've got no time to proof-read. Gotta get back to work.

Not rambling at all. This is an EXCELLENT reminder for folks who may not be entirely familiar with Castle. Thanks!

[Guest Aziroth]

I would hate to think that this website is full of murderers, it is my thought and training that the only time you point your pistol at someone is if you are pulling the trigger. If it was some paint man, putting a few holes through him might be bad for your future health, though its true you never really know the situation. It is a good thing that the OP is still alive and had the resolve to point a pistol AT someone and not pull the trigger, I know personally I do not.

If I am going to analyze the situation with arms presented I dont think I would point it at the guys chest, always go to the ready first before you go to the kill zone. A scenario could be that it was just a painter walking into an apartment, that has the door open, waiting to do his job, no need to end his life over his job. But maybe I was trained wrong, maybe all we need to do is just shoot anyone that enters an unfavorable situation, maybe the mantra of "Never point your gun at anything unless you want it to be destroyed" was taught to me by an idgit.

Glad your alive, hope this does not set a bad example to people in the future who might kill someone innocent and lead to strickening gun rights.

And of course the guy must be dead because again we all know never point your gun at someone unless your going to destroy him.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Aziroth

[Almond27]

I am not posting to bash the OP. Let me repeat that, I'm not posting to bash the OP. He made a quick decision under lots pressure, no one got shot and he kept himself safe from harm. That is why we train. It is for self-preservation, not just to spill some blood.

I didn't really want to reply to this post since I've previously stated on the board that I'm an attorney. Before you read further understand that unless you've been in my office and signed a retainer agreement, please don't take what I say as legal advice that is applicable in to any specific factual scenario that you may be involved in.

I feel a duty to clarify a couple of things:

First, in Tennessee you must have a reasonable fear of imminent death or substantial bodily injury to be justified in using deadly force. The castle doctrine grants you a rebuttable presumption that your fear is reasonable if someone has invaded your residence. It is a wonderful defense and I'm glad we live in a state that has adopted it. It is only a defense, however, it doesn't guarantee you won't be prosecuted or even convicted of a crime. In English, the castle doctrine says your fear is reasonable if you act against a home invader unless the prosecution proves it otherwise. For example, if you left your door open and they could prove that you knew someone might be coming to your home to do repairs they may argue that your fear was unreasonable.

Second, you can still be prosecuted for a shooting in your own home. Let's say a drunk wanders in, a home repairman comes in without annoucing, or your super duper armor peircing bullets go through your assailant and into another painter who is saying, "hey asshat, wrong apartment". Any of these scenarios could result in criminal liability if a DA convinces a jury that you weren't reasonable. You could face anything from second-degree murder to voluntary manslaughter to negligent or reckless homicide. The castle doctrine is not a "get out of jail" free card and it only takes the slightest blurring of the lines (along with an overzealous DA or LEOs) to result in criminal prosecution. I'm a huge proponent of self-defense but please understand the possible results of your actions. Finally, if you are involved in any shooting, even if the charges are dismissed eventually, be aware that you will most certainly lose your HCP until the issue is completely resolved.

I apologize if the above is a little rambling. I felt a need to chime in but I've got no time to proof-read. Gotta get back to work.

Great post Very informative

[Armed Aviator]

Did you have a bottle of chianti and some fava beans?

[Guest db99wj]

The OP flipped off his safety and pointed the firearm before ascertaining the target, i.e. walked out of his bedroom with the barrel pointed in front of him as he walked towards the door, then saw the person standing there. He didn't see the person beforehand from what I gather from the first posting.

The issue isn't one of legality, its one of being careful with firearms. One of the inviolate rules of firearms is knowing your target and what is beyond it. Close Quarters Combat is different.

Whats the difference in a 1911 with the safety not engaged and a Glock, or XD or one of the others that don't have external safeties?

I for one, will not walk through my house, when I heard someone enter it uninvited, unannounced, and otherwise unknown and not suppose to be there, with my gun not in the ready position and walk on someone that could possibly have a gun of their own, trained on me. You walk around the corner with your gun in your pocket, or not ready, you will never have a chance.

I see you are not arguing legality here, but you are mentioning the rules of firearms, in controlled environments, I agree, when you are clearing your house, due to the fact that someone has entered unannounced, uninvited, unknown, I would rather break that rule than be dead. Dead you can't fix. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating, not saying, not thinking, not subliminally submitting that you go around the corner blasting, or shooting through walls, but until the threat is either eliminated, I will be ready, especially in my own home. I also don't have the issue of an apartment, I live in a house. We all know if you fire a bullet it has your name on it so to speak and whatever it hits.

[Warbird]

When I was in college, this is the late 80's, I lived in a ground floor apartment.

One night I had cleaned a shotgun I had used at the range the day before and reloaded and had been in and out of the apartment from the back stoop smoking a cigar. The back door was a sliding glass door.

It was late 1am or so and I finished watching a story on the news and picked up my shotgun to take to the bedroom with me to put it away. Before doing so I always checked the back door to make sure it was locked. On that night I knew it wasn't as I had been outside only a few minutes earlier. My apartment had been robbed while I was away on a few weeks earlier. Interestingly they had taken a Rolex my uncle had left to me and a ring, but did not take a pistol that was in plain sight.

Anyway I pulled back the curtain and reached for the lock and noticed the door was partly open. I glanced up to see a large framed black man in his 20's had his hand on my door opening it. I pulled my shotgun up, it was in my right hand (I am left handed), and leveled it at his chest. His eyes got really big. He was no further than a couple of feet from me. If he had moved one inch in my direction, or made any other type of offensive move I would have shot him. He backed up and then ran as I yelled some obscenity at him. I closed the door, locked it and called the police. They came out and took a report and said they would look around. I got to bed about 4am.

At around 9am I had a knock on the door. It was another police officer. He said they had seen a suspicious car in the parking lot they thought was linked to several other burglaries n the area. They decided to leave someone around to see if anyone came to get this car. About 8 am a man came from out of the field across the highway and went to that car. Apparently he had run all the way over there and laid face down in the field for the rest of the night. The cop told me he said he was sure that crazy m*%^$% F'er was gonna shoot him.

They found other stolen items in his trunk, from burglaries over the previous couple of days. But I never did get my stuff back from weeks earlier. If it was him, he had already fenced it all.

As I said, he never entered my house, but because of our close proximity to one another and because he was already attempting to enter, if he had moved toward me I would have put hm down. I guess I was very lucky to have had that gun in my hand, just by happenstance. In reflection I also probably would have rather had a pistol in my hand as he could have easily tried to grab the gun barrel and fight me for it. But at that point it was just instinct.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Warbird

[Guest jackdm3]

I would have, too. I'm only 5'9" and generally considered "not a big guy." And with MS, I'm not so much worried about heavy judgements against me. He'd easily break me like a twig.

[Guest bkelm18]

Rather than try to argue with those of you who think pointing the gun at the guy was wrong. I'll just say this: MY house, MY rules. Rule #1: Walk into my home, unannounced and uninvited, you WILL be staring down the barrel of a firearm until I can ascertain you are not a threat. Don't care if any of you like it or not, do what you wish in your own home. I'll take the legal ramifications if it means I'm still alive.