Beware of HB3542

[9teeneleven]

Cronyism at its best. Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

[Guest jackdm3]

Gonna be some squabbling?

[9teeneleven]

"Authorizes individuals who have served 10 or more years as Tennessee’s Secretary of State, Comptroller, Treasurer, a member of the Governor’s Cabinet, or cabinet level staff to be eligible to serve as the chancellor of any public state institution of higher education. Requires such individuals to hold a baccalaureate degree from an accredited university."

[DavidD]

Sounds like "politics as usual" to me

[Chief07]

So what is in the "fine print"? Follow the money.

[Oh Shoot]

Obviously custom fitted to an individual or three.

Chancellor is supposed to be a highly esteemed academic honor; but let's just sell it to whichever crook needs the job.

After all, Lamar didn't even have a PHD, and he was "president" of UT, mostly in absentia, of course. That worked out well, since he shot down university funding to a level that has never been restored.

- OS

[Warbird]

Obviously custom fitted to an individual or three.

Chancellor is supposed to be a highly esteemed academic honor; but let's just sell it to whichever crook needs the job.

After all, Lamar didn't even have a PHD, and he was "president" of UT, mostly in absentia, of course. That worked out well, since he shot down university funding to a level that has never been restored.

- OS

Well I won't make any remark as to his effectiveness as UT president one way or the other, but Lamar does have a Doctorate. I'm not positive about who exactly they are trying to put in that position. Bredesen wants it filled and in reality it isn't good fro it not to be filled as we saw recently how bad it is not to have a permanent president in place. However certainly something is afoot and they mean to get somebody in there who doesn't at present meet the qualifications.

[Oh Shoot]

Well I won't make any remark as to his effectiveness as UT president one way or the other, but Lamar does have a Doctorate. ..

In what, from where?

He has BA from Vandy and basic 3 year law degree from New York University of Law.

- OS

[Warbird]

In what, from where?

He has BA from Vandy and basic 3 year law degree from New York University of Law.

- OS

He has a Juris Doctorate. A JD is a doctorate. It is not a basic law degree. A law degree is a graduate degree. You cannot obtain a law degree without having a bachelors degree. Yes it is 3 years. An MD is 4. To obtain most Phd's you must have a masters first, but that is not the case for a JD or an MD or a DDS, DO. They are professional doctorates and Phd's are academic doctorates. By the way there are also additional degrees in both law and medicine for professional doctorate holders. There are some law schools in some states that are not accredited and they may or may not have the same requirements as accredited law schools or the same degree. Those are usually challenge allowable states.

In a number of states , though it is shrinking, one can challenge the bar or the medical board and petition to take the tests w/o a degree. Bobby Jones the golfer is one of those examples. Though Jones did attend part of a year of law school he challenged the Georgia bar and passed. I had an uncle who studied medical books during his off time while serving as an officer in the military. He was given permission by a doctor at the base hospital to come in there and do lab type work. He had actually gotten a law degree after his first retirement from the military and did not enjoy it then was recalled into the service to serve in WWII. Just before he retired he challenged the medical boards in his state and passed and spent the rest of his career as a respected medical doctor, without ever attending a day of medical school. I cannot honestly say whether there is a state that allows one to do this today, but the last I looked there were a couple.

Many who have obtained doctorates often expect people to call them doctor such and whomever. Lawyers rarely expect people to call them doctor, unless they are law professors and even then it is rare as they are usually called professor. But, they do have a doctorate and have every right to state they are doctors. And in many countries it is the tradition to always refer to attorneys as doctor.

As far as I am concerned this is really semantics. To be the president of a public university in TN I believe you have to have a graduate level degree. Lamar did have that.

Should a graduate degree be required, I don't know. What is the main function of a university president? They manage a staff and budget. I've known several university presidents who had Phd's in education or some such and were lousy and both management of staff and budget. They raise money for the school. Again a certain skill set is required for that probably unrelated to their education. They lobby for their university to both their local community and the state and they are pr for their school. I think they definitely should have a degree because they represent that there is something of value in furthering one's education beyond HS.

I do find it funny though the wording of this legislation. They are not saying a grad degree isn't required still. They are saying it isn't required for only these people who have held these certain positions within the government.

As far as I know the governor only has a bachelor's degree, in physics I think of all things. So maybe he plans to have himself put in that position. I am just speculating here, I have nothing on which to base that.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Warbird

[Oh Shoot]

He has a Juris Doctorate. A JD is a doctorate. It is not a basic law degree. A law degree is a graduate degree. You cannot obtain a law degree without having a bachelors degree. Yes it is 3 years. An MD is 4. To obtain most Phd's you must have a masters first, but that is not the case for a JD or an MD or a DDS, DO. They are professional doctorates and Phd's are academic doctorates. ..

Okay, technical point conceded.

As far as I am concerned this is really semantics.

Indeed. Since the actual topic is regarding modifying requirements for Chancellor, not for a President.

Sorry for the tangent.

- OS

[Warbird]

Okay, technical point conceded.

Indeed. Since the actual topic is regarding modifying requirements for Chancellor, not for a President.

Sorry for the tangent.

- OS

Certainly no need to be sorry. I do agree with the premise of your post that something fishy is up with this legislation. I am confident they are changing it shortsightedly all for some particular person they have in mind.

And Chancellor perhaps, President or whichever title they use. I am used to saying president when referring to university heads.

However I believe the head of UT Knoxville, is the Chancellor over the entire UT system is that right? Do the other UT schools, Martin Chattanooga etc, have a president in charge or a provost at the local level? I don't know how that works in their system.

[Oh Shoot]

Certainly no need to be sorry. I do agree with the premise of your post that something fishy is up with this legislation. I am confident they are changing it shortsightedly all for some particular person they have in mind.

And Chancellor perhaps, President or whichever title they use. I am used to saying president when referring to university heads.

However I believe the head of UT Knoxville, is the Chancellor over the entire UT system is that right? Do the other UT schools, Martin Chattanooga etc, have a president in charge or a provost at the local level? I don't know how that works in their system.

UT has president who is "CEO" over entire UT system state wide.

Chancellors are the "COO's" of each campus.

- OS

[Warbird]

UT has president who is "CEO" over entire UT system state wide.

Chancellors are the "COO's" of each campus.

- OS

AAAAAHHHH. OK. Thanks for the clarification.