Is depression a mental disorder?

[Guest Satt]

I have been waiting for my permit for about a month now. In that time I have started to wonder...while I am NOT on social security disability, I am on VA disability for a few things...one of those being depression. I have NEVER been hospitalized though. This is just general depresion that I take Prozac for. My question is do you all think this would be a disqualifying factor for me to get a permit? I know in the rules it says you can't have been hospitalized for a mental disorder or on social security disabilty for this...but what about VA disability? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[The Rabbi]

If diagnosed depression were a disqualifying factor I think about 2/3 of gun owners would be ineligible.

Even a stay in a psych unit does not disqualify, unless it was mandated by a court.

[Guest Satt]

If diagnosed depression were a disqualifying factor I think about 2/3 of gun owners would be ineligible.

Even a stay in a psych unit does not disqualify, unless it was mandated by a court.

*breathing sigh of relief* Thanks a lot for that. You don't know how much I have secretly worried about that. I was almost even afraid to post about it.

[Guest Tombstone]

I Think that I would have to agree with the rabbi on this one. I deal with depression like a lot of others. But when I read the questions about mental disorders it didn't appear to me that normal (that required some deep thought.LOL) depression was not a dis-qualifier.

I wouldn't worry about it as of yet since you are still early in the waiting game. I know that some have got theirs sooner, but I have also heard about those that have taken more time.

If I remember right, there is a number that you can call if you feel that it is taking too long and get the statis. I think that it might have to be after the normal three months, and not sure how hard it would be to get through since the number is for the TBI.

[Guest canynracer]

Satt, its been a month relax man, stop thinking about the what ifs, you will get it....remember, they say its a 90 day wait, anything sooner should be considered a good thing. factor 6-8 weeks minimum... Maybe the state wants to wait a little longer to give you a X-mas present..LOL

You WILL get it....give it more time...you are gonna drive yourself crazy!

[Guest Satt]

Satt, its been a month relax man, stop thinking about the what ifs, you will get it....remember, they say its a 90 day wait, anything sooner should be considered a good thing. factor 6-8 weeks minimum... Maybe the state wants to wait a little longer to give you a X-mas present..LOL

You WILL get it....give it more time...you are gonna drive yourself crazy!

I know it may sound like i'm freaking out, but i'm not. I have actually been concerned about this aspect from the beginning. I just didn't have the courage to post about it until now. I feel a lot better now though so thanks!!!

[Mike.357]

I was almost even afraid to post about it.

no need to feel this way here. We are all with you!

Lots of us have divulged a lot of info about our situations and no one was ever belittled for it. And really everyone when it comes down to it is very supportive of one another here. We get into arguments from time to time but this place is full of love.

Call TDOS Monday if it has been over a month since you applied.

[The Rabbi]

I know it may sound like i'm freaking out, but i'm not. I have actually been concerned about this aspect from the beginning. I just didn't have the courage to post about it until now. I feel a lot better now though so thanks!!!

With an avatar like that you've got friends:D

On another note, if you're being treated for the depression fully expect a question about firearms ownership in the home from your doctor. I discussed this once with my brother (a hospice physician who naturally deals a lot with depression) and he said a physician would be negligent if he did not ask such a question. How you handle it is up to you.

[Guest canynracer]

With an avatar like that you've got friends:D

Agreed!!!

and Mike is right...dont sweat the posting, there are very intelligent people here that are able to help with your questions. I havent been able to find one yet (IM KIDDING, DONT ATTACK)

but serioulsy, the folks here are awesome and very knowledgeable. they can help

[Tim Nunan]

I have been waiting for my permit for about a month now. In that time I have started to wonder...while I am NOT on social security disability, I am on VA disability for a few things...one of those being depression. I have NEVER been hospitalized though. This is just general depresion that I take Prozac for. My question is do you all think this would be a disqualifying factor for me to get a permit? I know in the rules it says you can't have been hospitalized for a mental disorder or on social security disabilty for this...but what about VA disability? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

What you have discribed is not a disqualification. The problem is that the VA has provided names of 11,000 veterans being treated for mental health (during Clinton administraion) to the NCIC which will deny them the right to purchase a firearm even though they have not been "audicated by a court".

There is a current push to require all veterans going to the VA for whatever reason to be evaluated for mental health. Nothing stops the VA from dumping those additional names to the NCIC.

[John Wall]

Unless the McCarthy-Leahy bill passes, your medical info is non of the govt's concern. A glaring exception IS Veteran's Administration.

Look at the doctor like he passed gas, and carry on as though you did not hear his question. Questions about my health are appropriate. Questions about my personal life are not.

I doubt if the good doctor has the knowledge, credentials, or liability insurance to advise me about firearms ownership.

[Guest DrBoomBoom]

Depression is not a mental disorder. It is a symptom, just as fever is a symptom. Depression can be brought on by physical anomalies, chemical imbalances, traumatic events (even mild ones), and mental disorders. A doctor saying you have depression is like a doctor saying you have a fever. It shouldn't be a disqualifier.

But what do I know, I'm a bluegrass bass player?

[jgrauman]

i'm depressed right now! trying to figure out how to afford all my Christmas present purchases and still factor in a shotgun for myself!

[Guest canynracer]

i'm depressed right now! trying to figure out how to afford all my Christmas present purchases and still factor in a shotgun for myself!

you dont...you get visa gift cards from everyone that is gettng you a present and then go buy what you want

[Mike.357]

ranting and had second thoughts

[Guest canynracer]

EDIT: Removed Mikes quote due to his second thoughts...LOL

but...if he wants an expensive enough shotgun, one person may not be able to afford it.

if he gets 7 visa cards, well add em up, and off to the gun shop!!

I do agree with you...but I asked for them instead of other stuff cause I want a new gun..its expensive, and not everyone in my family is comfortable going to buy me one...

[Tim Nunan]

Unless the McCarthy-Leahy bill passes, your medical info is non of the govt's concern. A glaring exception IS Veteran's Administration.

Look at the doctor like he passed gas, and carry on as though you did not hear his question. Questions about my health are appropriate. Questions about my personal life are not.

I doubt if the good doctor has the knowledge, credentials, or liability insurance to advise me about firearms ownership.

I carry this form to present to any doctor foolish enough to "counsel" on firearms:

FIREARMS SAFETY COUNSELING REPRESENTATION:

PHYSICIAN QUALIFICATIONS AND LIABILITY

Part One: Qualifications

I affirm that I am certified to offer (Name of Patient: ), herineafter referred to as "the Patient", qualified advice about firearms safety in the home, having received:

Specify Course(s) of Study:

_________________________________________________________________________

from:

Specify Institution(s)

_________________________________________________________________________

on:

Specify Course Completion Date(s):

_________________________________________________________________________

resulting in:

Specify Accreditation(s), Certification(s), License(s) etc.:

_________________________________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________________________

Check one, as appropriate:

___

I represent that I have reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private

firearms ownership. I further represent that I have reviewed all other relevant home safety issues with the Patient, including those relating to electricity, drains, disposals, compactors, garage doors, driveway safety, pool safety, pool fence codes and special locks for pool gates, auto safety, gas, broken glass, stored cleaning chemicals, buckets, toilets, sharp objects, garden tools, home tools, power tools, lawnmowers, lawn chemicals, scissors, needles, forks, knives, etc. I also acknowledge, by receiving this document, I have been made aware that, in his inaugural address before the American Medical Association on June 20, 2001, new president Richard Corlin, MD, admitted "What we don't know about violence and guns is literally killing us...researchers do not have the data to tell how kids get guns, if trigger locks work, what the warning signs of violence in schools and at the workplace are and other critical questions due to lack of research funding." (UPI). In spite of this admission, I represent that I have sufficient data and expertise to provide expert and clinically sound advice to patients regarding firearms in the home.

OR

___

I am knowingly engaging in Home/Firearms Safety Counseling without certification, license or formal training in Risk

Management, and; I have not reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership.

Part Two: Liability

I have determined, from a review of my medical malpractice insurance, that if I engage in an activity for which I am not certified, such as Firearms Safety Counseling, the carrier (check one, as appropriate):

___ will

___ will not

cover lawsuits resulting from neglect, lack of qualification, etc.

Insurance Carrier name, address and policy number insuring me for firearms safety expertise:

_________________________________________________________________________

I further warrant that, should the Patient follow my firearm safety counseling and remove from the home and/or disable firearms with trigger locks or other mechanisms, and if the patient or a family member, friend or visitor is subsequently injured or killed as a result of said removal or disabling, that my malpractice insurance and/or personal assets will cover all actual and punitive damages resulting from a lawsuit initiated by the patient, the patient's legal reprerentative, or the patient's survivors.

Signature of attesting physician and date: __________________________________________________

Name of attesting physician (please print):__________________________________________________

Signature of patient and date: ____________________________________________________________

Name of patient (please print):____________________________________________________________

Patient:

Indicate if physician "REFUSED TO SIGN." Have physician place a copy in your chart/medical record.

[ZenDog]

Hi ya'll--

Don't know a lot about weapons yet but I do know a lot about docs and firearms, etc. I am a shrink in Memphis (lots of customers here) and I routinely ask folks about the firearms they might have in their possession as a legitimate part of a mental health exam.

Asking a depressed person if they have firearms available is routine for medical and mental health professionals. It is a health-related question in the event that you are depressed.

If you are getting a prostate exam, a firearm question is definitely out of place!

More men kill themselves with handguns than any other method-- it is appropriate to ask a suicidal person if they have one easily available that they can and will use on themselves.

Here's what goes on with docs and depression and firearms-

If the doc's professional opinion is that you are depressed, part of an assessment of depression is your suicidality-- In other words, do you appear as though you going to off yourself soon. If you look suicidal to the doc, the doc's next step is to ask about a plan to do it, your willingness to do it, and to ascertain if you have the means to do it. If you have a firearm or a few dozen sleeping pills, those are both easy ways you can off yourself, and those are the top 2 ways people do it.

Sometimes folks will say "Well, I've thought about killing myself with a gun". Then I'll ask, "Do you have one?" Sometimes they don't even own one or know how to get one. Other times they'll say things like "Oh yeah, I'll use my S&W .38" Very different answers.

At some point there is a decision made by the doc-- if the doc thinks you want to kill yourself, you have the means to do it, and the doc thinks you are really going to do it, the the doc by law has to take certain steps-- if the doc fails to do this and you kill yourself, the doc's license is in danger and the doc can be sued by your survivors (and the doc will lose-- we carry minimum $1,000,000 per incident liability insurance, by the way).

An involuntary commitment is in order if you are going to kill yourself. The doc will call 911 and you will be taken involuntarily by the cops to your area's holding facility-- in Memphis, it is The Med. They will chain you to a gurney there until they determine you are safe enough to release.

In Tennessee, they can hold you for up to 3 days against your will, after which you get a hearing to determine if you are sane enough to release or not.

I have had to call 911 several times in my career. Violent crazy people bring guns and other weapons into my office now and then. I used to have blood stains on my carpet from a woman who cut her arm open with a razor in my office. A couple of patients have assaulted me in my office. We take this @#$% seriously and asking about firearms is absolutely ok if you are treating someone for depression or a mental disorder or who is prone to violence.

A colleague was held at gunpoint in his office by a suicidal woman-- he wrestled the gun away from her eventually. She later killed herself in another doctor's office. A shrink was killed at one place I worked-- he tried to take the gun away from a suicidal woman who had it in her hand. Shot him in the throat- he bled to death before the paramedics arrived. Then she killed herself. (Dumb- leave and call the SWAT team!)

People are strange, and often the strangest ones show up in our offices.

So if you are depressed or distraught and your doc asks you if you own firearms, he's doing his job. If you can't handle the question, don't ask the doc for help, or just lie.

[The Rabbi]

Thanks, ZenDog. That pretty well accords with what my two physician brothers, one a psychiatrist, tell me.

Tim Nunan, I'll bet your doctor is reeel impressed when you whip that baby out.

[Guest canynracer]

Tim Nunan, I'll bet your doctor is reeel impressed when you whip that baby out.

ummmm......I think I will leave this one alone..

[Guest canynracer]

well written post there...thanks ZenDog

People are strange, and often the strangest ones show up in our offices.

umm, should you expect that in your profession???

[Fallguy]

ZenDog I agree with you overall because you do seem to make the distinction between "depressed" and "suicidal".

The trouble is, and I think you would agree, if some one is bound-and-determined to end their life, they will find a way regardless of the means readily available to them.

[The Rabbi]

ZenDog I agree with you overall because you do seem to make the distinction between "depressed" and "suicidal".

The trouble is, and I think you would agree, if some one is bound-and-determined to end their life, they will find a way regardless of the means readily available to them.

That's true. But, the key phrase is "bound and determined." There are people who do things even when not bound and determined. I see them in my shop every day. They are "opportunists." If the opportunity for whatever it is is there, they will do it. If not, they won't.

[Kano]

If you know you have a problem thats half the battle in life, most humans have some sort of head problems some worse than others. Relax you will be fine !!!!!!!!!!!