Your qualifying handgun?

[andersmg]

I was looking at the rangusa site today and saw a course they teach called "add a gun". The deal is you are supposedly only qualified with the gun you used to get your handgun carry permit.

I don't remember this as the way my class was taught. I remember my instructor telling us that we could carry any handgun we wanted as long as it was a legally obtained and registered handgun, I also recall him telling us we could carry as many as we wanted as well.

What about it folks, what does the law say about this???

[Mike.357]

carry whatever you want, and as many as you want. What you qualified with does not matter. There are some states that it matters what you qualified with but not here.

The most I have carried is two, I want to try three but I do not think I can keep my pants up, lol.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

I took my class at Range USA also. I was told that the add a gun part was for liability. Meaning, that if you would qualify with each of your weapons seperately, then if you had to use your weapon in a situation, you would be qualified with that particular weapon, no matter which one you chose to carry that day. So it basically boils down to liability!

[andersmg]

I guess I just don't get it.

If I shoot someone in self defense then what difference does it make whether or not I have qualified with the gun.

To me it would seem I would be better off if I had not qualified with the gun because if I qualify with each gun I may carry, that shows I am proficient with the weapon. If I have not qualified with the weapon then there is no "proof" that I can shoot the gun well enough to kill, so it seems to me in a court of law I would stand a better chance of not going to jail for shooting someone with the gun I have not qualified with...

Does that make sense to anyone or have I totally confused everyone?

[Guest Todd@CIS]

If I beat someone with a bat, does it matter if it was an Easton or a Louisville Slugger?

If the act itself was justified, I don't see much real world difference in the make of the implement.

IMO, I think some get a little carried away with liability concerns (or worse)...and this comes from someone who thinks liability everyday. The State of TN isn't concerned with what legal make/model you carry...that's good enough for me.

BTW, I have never heard of this being a factor in an otherwise justified shooting involving someone with a valid TN HCP.

[Guest bluecanary25]

UMMmmm.......... This ain't Commu-fornia.

In Tn, one does not register a handgun.

There is no requirement to qualify for each handgun you want to carry.

"Add a gun" sounds like BS to get money for something that is not required........ jus' my $0.02.

Carry as many guns as you feel capable/comfortable with....

and like Mike.357 mentioned, get a good belt to hold your pants up.........

ummmmmm, you don't wear a kilt do ya? That might complicate things.

[creeky]

If someone isn't keeping the targets with your serial number on it, and isn't willing to testify in court that you did shoot the target and did well... then how valuable is it anyway? I mean... just becuase I have a target with holes init doesn't really prove much.

(IMHO) The crimminal trial (if any) it wouldn't matter. What is judged is your actions, not shot placement. Even in a civil trial I'm not sure how much good it would do you. At best, if you had an errent round hit someone else, you might be able to use something like that... but in the end whatever the bullet strikes your responsible for. I don't think it would do you any good.

A good lawyer could twist your "qualifing" with several different weapons trying be a reasponcible gun owner into a "Gun-Nut", "Who shoots human silos for FUN, training himself every weekend he can for the chance, nay... hoping for the chance to live out some rambo, vigilante style fantasy. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury... I ask you... how many guns do you own? How many weekends do you spend shooting and practicing by shooting human targets to the point it means nothing more than putting holes into paper?"

Again let me point out that I don't know anything that I am talking about, just running

some possibilities. The real experts are the police and handgun trainers on the board.

[saintsfanbrian]

The way it is explained to me is that an attorney could possibly try to trip you up in court by saying you qualified with a .22 and then went around carrying a .50 that you didn't know how to use and you recklessly endangered everyones lives when you shot his poor client.

Personally, I didn't do it and I carry all different types of guns. It's a feel good addition and isn't worth $25. In my opinion, anyone that really wants to know can go pull the records from RangeUSA or Wal-Mart and figure out how much ammo and range time I have had since I got my permit.

[Guest Phantom6]

That's horse hockey! We certainly recommend that folks qualify with what they plan to carry but it is not required and there is little difference in a semi-automatic .22, 9mm, .40 or .45 pistol. They all have only three basic parts- the frame, action and barrel- same as a revolver. We teach our students about revolvers and pistols in our classes because though they may normally shoot one, they may be called upon to pick up someone else's to defend their life some day.

I am required to keep the targets and tests for 5 years and I tell all of my students to call me if they need someone to testify that they know how to handle a firearm above the state's minimum requirements. The state requires a minimum score of 240 in order to pass the shooting portion of the qualification and I have never had a student shoot below a 366 and she had never picked up a gun in her life prior to her class. As a matter of fact most of our students shoot well above 430 out of a possible 480 best on the B-27. It doesn't matter if the x ring is ripped out by a .22 or a .38, a 9mm or what at the prescribed yardage. It's still ripped out and as long as they answered the question of whether we shoot to kill or stop the threat correctly it doesn't matter.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

It sounds to me like they're trying to scare people into spending more money. Nothing more, nothing less.

The state doesn't give a hoot what gun you use to qualify. If you're ever involved in a defensive shooting, and it's ruled a good shoot, no one is going to care if you use a .22 or a .45. Well, no one except the entire internet, where the shooting will add fuel to one side of the 9mm vs .45, or .22 vs .45, .223 vs. .308 war.

[Guest 270win]

It sounds like RangeUSA is just wanting a money maker. Legal self defense is just that...legal self defense whether you used a bat, rifle, knife, or handgun. TN is pretty friendly as far as you not getting sued for legitimate self defense and the prosecutors also seem to be good judges of not bringing what are clear cut self defense cases to court.

I had to qualify with a semi auto in Arkansas, but that was only because state law requires it if i wanted to carry a semi auto pistol. If i qualified with a revolver, then i was limited to carrying a revolver or derringer. Each state has its own quirks. I believe Texas does the same thing for getting a Texas Concealed Handgun License. They also require requalifying after four years like Arkansas. Tennessee thankfully does not require all that junk to keep the handgun carry permit.

[Marswolf]

This is idiotic. Sounds like RangeUSA is trying to add to their bottom line.

[dariks]

Apparently there really are people out there who will fall for this scam though.

[Guest canynracer]

RangeUSA does not say it is REQUIRED....they offer it for liability to say that you had control of the gun you used, (as saintsfanbrian stated) this is optional, they do NOT say it is required.

prosecuting attorneys will use whatever they can to say YOU are at fault...they do not send it in, they keep it on record in case you need it...

[Guest canynracer]

from the site...

Add-a-gun

Tennessee State Law doesn't require you to qualify with every firearm you intend to carry. However, prosecuting attorneys will be sure to bring this up if you are ever involved in a shooting where you used a different firearm than the one you qualified with. And, unfortunately, that seed of doubt can be enough to sway a jury against you. That is why we highly recommend that you qualify with each and every firearm you intend to carry. The appointments to qualify with thew additional firearms are held the same time our handgun permit classes are held. You simply show up during the time the class is qualifying and qualify with them. You do not have to sit through any class time - you simply shoot the course of fire to qualify with your additional firearm. It's that simple. Take advantage of this opportunity to cover yourself and head off any legal disasters you may experience in the future. It is cheap insurance. Do it now so later you won't wish you had!

Tuition: $30.00 per firearm

Length of class: Varies. (20-30 minutes)

Pre-requisite: Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit

Materials needed: The firearm or firearms you want to qualify with and 50 rounds of ammunition for each.

[molonlabetn]

I have never heard of specific qualification with a handgun ever being an issue... usually it simply boils down to whether deadly force was justified or not, if it was a clean shoot.

One solution might be to fire 48rd into a B27 silhouette from each of your carry guns, with a witness or two present, and all of you sign them. That's all these 'instructors' are doing for the $30 a pop. The State of TN does not require records of your target.

[Mike.357]

And of course if you take this class the same prosecutor will point out how you wanted to shoot someone so much that you went and took a class to be more proficient with the gun you shot the person with.

Bottom line is that if it is a good shoot it is a good shoot.

[Guest canynracer]

for the record, I am not advocating the add a gun...but they are a business, and businesses are there to make money, I took my course there, they mentioned the add a gun during the closing part as a "it is not required by law, you can if you want"

I did not do, and dont plan too, but I do know that lawyers will use ANYTHING they can to win...(my uncle, and 2 cousins are lawyers) not criminal lawyers

it is a matter of perception to 12 of your peers. the lawyers sell that perception.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

If it is coming down to whether you were "qualified" with the gun you were carrying then A LOT of things were screwed up with the shooting to begin with.

If this were MA, CA or IL, MAYBE. But here if you are OBVIOUSLY the good guy and he is OBVIOUSLY the BG then it is not an issue. Read that to mean if you did not know the guy , did not have a house full of drugs, were not drunk or high at the time of the shooting, were not having an affair with his wife , were not in a long term argument with him, had not threatened to kill him, and you yourself were not in the commission of a violent felony then it just does not go that far. AND if the guy was in commission of a violent felony, you can't even be sued in civil court in TN. Refer to TCA 29-34-201. So unless you screwed up and shot someone who did not IMMEDIATELY need shooting this should never be an issue in TN.

A lot of the fear of legal system comes from Mas Ayoob's writings. Remember guys, Mas lives in New Hampshire not Nashville. The legal climate is different here than there. I'm certainly not suggesting you can be stupid and careless and still "get out of jail free" , but unless there are unsavory skeletons in your closet the prosecutor won't have a case and will be unlikely to even bring a case against you if you are OBVIOUSLY the good guy. Remember don't go stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things and you will generally have a hard time getting into situations that are questionable.

TCA 29-34-201. Injuries suffered in committing or attempting to commit felony on property of another — Recovery barred — Scope of immunity for one injuring a perpetrator of a criminal offense. —

(a) Any person who is injured while committing a felony or attempting to commit a felony on the real property of another is barred from recovery of actual or punitive damages resulting from injuries, either accidentally or intentionally inflicted by the owner, lawful occupier or tenant of such property, which the person receives while committing or attempting to commit a felony.

( (1) A person who accidentally or intentionally causes property damage to or inflicts injury or death upon the perpetrator of a criminal offense is absolutely immune from civil liability for or the payment of monetary damages from such person's actions if at the time such damage, injury or death occurred:

(A) The person was preventing or attempting to prevent the perpetrator from committing the offense or was apprehending the perpetrator of the offense; and

( The perpetrator was committing one (1) or more of the offenses specified in subdivisions ©(1)-(9) or was attempting to commit one (1) or more of the offenses specified in subdivision ©(10).

(2) The immunity conferred by this subsection shall only apply to property damage caused to or injury or death inflicted upon a perpetrator of an enumerated offense and only under the conditions set out in this subsection. Such immunity shall not be construed to extend to property damage caused to or injury or death inflicted upon a bystander or other person who is not the perpetrator of an enumerated offense.

© The offenses for which such immunity applies are:

(1) Any criminal homicide;

(2) Aggravated rape;

(3) Kidnapping;

(4) Aggravated kidnapping;

(5) Especially aggravated kidnapping;

(6) Especially aggravated burglary;

(7) Aggravated robbery;

(8) Especially aggravated robbery;

(9) Carjacking; and

(10) Attempt to commit first or second degree murder.

[Acts 1971, ch. 177, § 1; T.C.A., §§ 23-3003, 29-34-103; Acts 1999, ch. 268, § 2.]

[Marswolf]

I think the term "scam" is quite appropriate. $30 extra? Hell, my class wasn't but $50. Maybe not in a league with some of the good trainers here on the board, but a hell of a lot more than I actually needed.

[Guest canynracer]

I disagree. if they are openly saying this is NOT a requirement, but offer it "just in case" and leave it up to you...not a scam. Some want to do it, some dont. it is optional.

the need for it is opinion based, just like the need for a "badge" for open carry, or open carry vs concealed. Debatable, yes, but opinion based

if they portrayed it as a requirement, I would agree.

[andersmg]

Wow!

This subject has certainly brought out some good info and points by all, I was just inquiring as to whether or not I should do this according to the law.

I think I have my answer now!

Thanks everyone...

[DaveTN]

I guess I just don't get it.

If I shoot someone in self defense then what difference does it make whether or not I have qualified with the gun.

Criminally it won’t make any difference. But if you try to shoot a perp and kill an innocent bystander the lawyer for the family of the innocent person will hammer on the jury to increase the “punitive damages†they are already awarding because you were not qualified with the weapon you were carrying.

[Mike.357]

But if you try to shoot a perp and kill an innocent bystander the lawyer for the family of the innocent person will hammer on the jury to increase the “punitive damages” they are already awarding because you were not qualified with the weapon you were carrying.

what would the basis of law be here? TN does not require you do this so there is no standard for having to do it.

[Guest canynracer]

Just because its not required doesnt mean they cant bring it up to a jury...know what I mean? 12 other civilians...especially in a civil suit.