Siderlock Safety for Glocks

[DaveTN]

If you properly use any firearm, your trigger finger stays straight until your ready to fire the weapon. Once ready to fire you can put your finger on the trigger, the gun should already be in the general direction your firing so you won't be running the risk of an accidental discharge. Then you finialize your sighting and squeeze the trigger.

I’m not talking about target shooting at the indoor range.

[ioerror001]

I'm talking about real world also ... my fobus holster covers the trigger area and when the gun comes out, it's pointed where the action is anyway.

I have always been under the teaching never point any gun loaded or unloaded at something your not willing to kill.

It's not like drawing it and putting your finger out straight will cause the gun to discharge. I think most of the "deadly glock" publicity is from people who aren't properly trained on using any handgun and they just buy a glock first thanks to tv etc. Once the own it they "accidentally" kill someone with it and glock gets a bad wrap for discharging on them. Had it not been pointed in that direction with a finger on a trigger it wouldn't have been able to do any damage.

[Marswolf]

Oh dear me....

Again my opinion is glock is perfection.

[sigh]

Just a couple of brief points.

First, I like the way a Glock is designed in terms of its having no meaningful manual safeties. That's the way a handgun should be carried IMHO - always ready to fire. My problem with it is in other design considerations that I've gone over ad infinitum. These considerations are why I no longer carry, or even own, a Glock.

Second, this idea of keeping your finger off of the trigger is a bunch of crap in the world I deal in. Yes...I keep my finger off of the trigger on the firing range. But in the field, with a drawn handgun or an M16 or other rifle, you will find my firearm ready to fire and my finger on the trigger. If you are with me and tell me I'm doing it wrong, I will remind you that I've been doing this for a long-long while and am still alive because I know what to do - and that I am not some snotty nose idiot and do not care to hear the opinion of someone who is one. I will then explain to you that you need to go back to base camp, get a dose of reality, and then back to your mama.

[ioerror001]

Not saying your doing it wrong, just saying if your in a position to put your finger on a trigger in any kind of situation you should be ready and willing to fire, therefore the glock isn't hurting your target in any way shape or form. The discussion is how they are "unsafe" and my point is if your handling your gun correctly and your pointing it at a target you want to hit and you have your finger on the trigger your good to go. You should not draw your gun with your finger on the trigger while it's pointed at your foot, leg, friend, or any other target your not trying to hit. And I'm not talking just at the range.

[dcloudy777]

I think with a couple add on parts (threaded barrel, extended slide release and mag release and night sites) Glock really is perfection.

That may be my quote of the year...

DanO

[ioerror001]

sarcasm?

[Marswolf]

This isn't exactly a Glock problem, although Glocks do seem to have a greater problem being carried safely than many other handguns. That's a major reason why I can't recommend them except as a LE duty weapon.

As far as pointing your firearm at other people or objects that you don't intend to shoot, that happens all the time with me. My buddies sweep me with their rifles and I sometimes do the same with them. It is absolutely unavoidable in many situations. We control the potential friendly fire carnage with discipline and training.

[DaveTN]

Second, this idea of keeping your finger off of the trigger is a bunch of crap in the world I deal in. Yes...I keep my finger off of the trigger on the firing range. But in the field, with a drawn handgun or an M16 or other rifle, you will find my firearm ready to fire and my finger on the trigger. If you are with me and tell me I'm doing it wrong, I will remind you that I've been doing this for a long-long while and am still alive because I know what to do.

And I thought I was all by myself.

[Mike.357]

I must have missed some things. I do not recall any accidental shootings with a Glock.

The only things I remember reading are where someone accidently shoots themselves while cleaning it.

IMHO my forefinger should be the only safety I need. And because of that I do not want to carry a gun that needs its safety disengaged but rather want one that takes effort to pull the trigger

[Marswolf]

I must have missed some things. I do not recall any accidental shootings with a Glock.

The only things I remember reading are where someone accidently shoots themselves while cleaning it.

We have had several here in the Tri-Cities. Glock Butt and Glock Leg are a real phenomenon. But we have had at least one with a 1911 also. Alcohol was involved in the 1911 case.

[Mike.357]

Glock Butt and Glock Leg are a real phenomenon.

So mostly I figure it is an idiot pulling the trigger, the lack of a safety does not matter. With a safety they would have just disengaged it and then still shot someone.

[GhostDog]

I guess if a man were clearing caves in Afghanistan and knew anyone inside would be hostile, then having his finger on the trigger would make sense. But if he were working in an area where there might be bystanders, that same action would make him a fool.

I was never and am not now a ninja, so I don't know. I was just a cop. The thing I feared most was hurting an innocent by mistake. I accepted the risks of the job and worked hard to keep myself from getting hurt but not to the detriment of some poor kid in the dark. Of course, that's just me.

If some cowboy ninja shoots me by accident, I hope: for his sake that he makes that first shot count or he'll be having a bad day // and for my sake that he owns a nice house.

[Marswolf]

I don't work with many cowboy ninjas. They are mostly Marines.

[deerslayer]

Oh dear me....

[sigh]

Just a couple of brief points.

First, I like the way a Glock is designed in terms of its having no meaningful manual safeties. That's the way a handgun should be carried IMHO - always ready to fire. My problem with it is in other design considerations that I've gone over ad infinitum. These considerations are why I no longer carry, or even own, a Glock.

Second, this idea of keeping your finger off of the trigger is a bunch of crap in the world I deal in. Yes...I keep my finger off of the trigger on the firing range. But in the field, with a drawn handgun or an M16 or other rifle, you will find my firearm ready to fire and my finger on the trigger. If you are with me and tell me I'm doing it wrong, I will remind you that I've been doing this for a long-long while and am still alive because I know what to do - and that I am not some snotty nose idiot and do not care to hear the opinion of someone who is one. I will then explain to you that you need to go back to base camp, get a dose of reality, and then back to your mama.

If you run around with your finger on the trigger, how is the Glock any more unsafe than anything else? What does it matter?

[deerslayer]

We have had several here in the Tri-Cities. Glock Butt and Glock Leg are a real phenomenon. But we have had at least one with a 1911 also. Alcohol was involved in the 1911 case.

"Glock butt" and "Glock leg" are always obtained by pulling the trigger while said Glock is pointing at said butt or leg--a lousy course of action. More Glocks are involved in these types of accidents because more Glocks are sold and because the majority of LEOs and gunowners alike are grossly lacking in proper gun handling training. The combination of the volume of Glocks out there and this lack of gun handling skills is the main reason Glocks are more involved in NDs than other types. If one is schooled in proper gun handling (on the range or on the street), he/she should have no problems safely carrying a Glock.

[ioerror001]

thanks. My point exactly. Any gun with a finger on the trigger is dangerous. Because if your at that point your manual safety would be off also.

[DaveTN]

I guess if a man were clearing caves in Afghanistan and knew anyone inside would be hostile, then having his finger on the trigger would make sense. But if he were working in an area where there might be bystanders, that same action would make him a fool.

No, sorry…. carrying a weapon that he feared would put innocent bystanders in harm ways if he put his finger on the trigger would make him a fool.

[DaveTN]

"Glock butt" and "Glock leg" are always obtained by pulling the trigger while said Glock is pointing at said butt or leg--a lousy course of action. More Glocks are involved in these types of accidents because more Glocks are sold and because the majority of LEOs and gunowners alike are grossly lacking in proper gun handling training. The combination of the volume of Glocks out there and this lack of gun handling skills is the main reason Glocks are more involved in NDs than other types. If one is schooled in proper gun handling (on the range or on the street), he/she should have no problems safely carrying a Glock.

There’s what I was waiting for. Glocks are the problem because there are so many of them and cops as a group are clueless on how to handle a firearm.

[deerslayer]

cops as a group are clueless on how to handle a firearm.

An astonishing percentage of cops are not proficient with firearms. If Glocks didn't exist, and some other gunmaker claimed 2/3 of the LEO market, then that gunmaker would probably get bashed as being "unsafe" because of the resulting higher number of ADs with their product. Take note, however, that I mentioned gunowners, as well as cops.

[DaveTN]

An astonishing percentage of cops are not proficient with firearms.

Based on what? Your vast knowledge of cops? I worked on a 215 Officer PD and we did not have a single ND or accidental shooting. I would say that is a pretty good record; would you agree?

[deerslayer]

I would say that is an excellent record--your training program was probably excellent, as well.

[DaveTN]

I would say that is an excellent record--your training program was probably excellent, as well.

Most departments have excellent training. But Glocks come on the scene and all of a sudden cops are having AD/ND’s all over the place. So the obvious questions becomes… did Police Officer training all off a sudden turn to crap, or is it the weapon? Is this a problem with Sigs, M&P’s etc?

Look at the obvious.

[deerslayer]

When did Glocks come on the scene? Immediately after many departments made the switch from revolvers. Officers went from a long, 10 or 12 lb. trigger to a shorter, 5.5 lb. trigger and had immediate problems. If they had switched to 1911s w/ 3.5 lb. triggers instead, would the results have been any different? They either didn't practice much with them or they had their fingers on their triggers A LOT. BTW, the M&P is too new to include here, but I'm not how sure they are any safer than a Glock.

I have fired more rounds through Glocks than probably 99% of LEOs in America, and I've never had an AD. Go figure.

[deerslayer]

BTW, I see you're a Smith guy--do you use an M&P or a 59 series or what? I believe the M&P is definitely here to stay--have heard nothing but good about it. I haven't fired one yet, but will at first opportunity.

[DaveTN]

I have fired more rounds through Glocks than probably 99% of LEOs in America, and I've never had an AD. Go figure.

That’s a pretty impressive statistic. How many people have you taken at gun point; as compared to the average cop? I mean that is what we are talking about, whether or not you have your finger on the trigger in a deadly force situation.