I GUESS YOU GUYS BOUGHT ALOT OF JUNK

[deerslayer]

My P3AT ran right out of the box, as long as I didn't feed it PMC. I don't need any gun that won't run after 200-300 rounds with SOMETHING. Like others, I have no love affair with .380s.

[Steelharp]

My .380 is a SIG P230. Flawless... as they should be.

[I_Like_Pie]

Not knocking the semi autos in any way as I own quite a few. Was ogling a sig p238 the other day

-but-

This, my friends, is why I carry 13 ounce revolver. It goes bang *5 every single time. Will do so every day from now until I am too old to carry.

[Rock.45]

So every Colt 1911 ever produced is 100% reliable out of the box? Every one I ever shot Military or other went bang went the hammer dropped. Even with WW2 ammo, only malfunctions were do to bad mags , bad reloads or weak wrist. My Colt Combat Elite, Colt Commander , Springfield and Kimber CDP2 are at 100% so far

[Guest mustangdave]

I read "the article" I read it for information purposes only...I don't give much creedance to "lab coats" as it is...I prefer REAL WORLD testing. I have 2 380 caliber pistols at home...a Bersa 380 CC and a P3-AT. Neither of these guns are gonna be used (hopefully) past 25-30 feet...a weapon chambered in 32 or 380 is what I call my "get outa my face you sumbitch" gun. My wife CC's the Kel-tec and loves it...its her BUG to a SP-101....the Bersa is my BUG to my FNH P-40

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'll keep my .45's , Glock and 1911. My 9mm G17 is good to go, also. I want a Baby Eagle in .45, but not that micro thing. Nothing wrong with .380, but there are many more good offerings in .45 and 9mm.

[mikegideon]

I took the article with a grain of salt. Read too many positive range reports from owners of most of the guns in the article.

I'll never count on my LCP for much, but it's more about the hole it makes than worrying about it going bang.

[Guest Ae-35]

I'm just a stubborn old guy, the problem with that story is Wiley made his statements based on 100rd. through each gun, that's not enough rd. for me to trust any gun for carry!! Gosh, I put 250rd. even though my G26 before I carried it. Everything else (including my Mil-Spec) I put 500rd. though before I trust my life with them. I know some don't believe in doing that many, hey to each his own. I still believe in the old slogan " Friends Don't let Friends Buy 380's"

[JeffsSig]

I own 3 of the guns on that list and I would carry, use and trust any one of the 3. (in my hands)

Most flaws in the semi auto handguns use are user related.

Boils down to knowing your gun and taking care of it the right way.

And yes I own a few guns that I do not know very well yet. But Id not carry them.

[Guest 10mm4me]

To each their own, but I won't carry a anything smaller or less potent than a .38 spl. and I'm not in love with that. I have heard it said that any gun is better than no gun, but not for me. I carry a .45 90% of the time. You mouse gun fans might want to think about what you can actually do with those little guns, even if it works.

I believe these "mouse guns" to be about worthless, they have no grip, no sights, horrid triggers that most shooters don't practice with enough to become efficient with.Why they have become so popular in the last year, I will never know.I doubt most would be able to end a threat with one of these unless said threat was within one arm's distance.Also, these guns lack the intimidation factor of larger weapons which often ends a situation without shots needing to be fired. I have used that feature before in the civilian world and I don't think an LCP or P3AT would have had the same result.A G19 can be carried easily and concealed under a T-shirt and is 1000x more effective. Someone serious about defense should at least carry something with a decent grip, sight picture, sight radius. Comfort and "size" should be almost a 0 factor in determining a carry gun.

[Guest .45Jon]

I believe these "mouse guns" to be about worthless, they have no grip, no sights, horrid triggers that most shooters don't practice with enough to become efficient with.Why they have become so popular in the last year, I will never know.I doubt most would be able to end a threat with one of these unless said threat was within one arm's distance.Also, these guns lack the intimidation factor of larger weapons which often ends a situation without shots needing to be fired. I have used that feature before in the civilian world and I don't think an LCP or P3AT would have had the same result.A G19 can be carried easily and concealed under a T-shirt and is 1000x more effective. Someone serious about defense should at least carry something with a decent grip, sight picture, sight radius. Comfort and "size" should be almost a 0 factor in determining a carry gun.

I agree with most of what your saying with the exception of the "doubting it would stop a threat" part...Many people took a dirt nap from that round and .22s, I think its well capable of stoping a threat though no comparison to the .45, which I mostly carry myself...My opinion

Jon-

[Guest 10mm4me]

I agree with most of what your saying with the exception of the "doubting it would stop a threat" part...Many people took a dirt nap from that round and .22s, I think its well capable of stoping a threat though no comparison to the .45, which I mostly carry myself...My opinion

Jon-

I am not referring to the caliber of the weapon, I am referring to the intrinsic in-accuracy of these weapons via long trigger pull, short sight radius, poor sight picture, and the much to be desired grip. Most shooters do not train enough to be effective with a gun like this at a distance greater than an arm's length. I am fully aware that a .380, .22, .25, or a .32 can kill you dead where you stand.

[Alpha7]

Not all the trigger pulls are bad the p238 is a single action about 7 pounds and the tcp738 taurus is 5.5 pounds according to american rifleman. NAA guardian was 13 pounds lol.

[Mykltn]

I own the Sig P238 and have personally put about 300 rounds through it without any issues. I know the first ones out had a feed problem with the Mag I think, but that issue was resolved rather quickly with a recall. I read the same article but have not had the same experience with my Sig. As far as I am concerned, she shoots great and is a CCW keeper.

[Guest .45Jon]

I am not referring to the caliber of the weapon, I am referring to the intrinsic in-accuracy of these weapons via long trigger pull, short sight radius, poor sight picture, and the much to be desired grip. Most shooters do not train enough to be effective with a gun like this at a distance greater than an arm's length. I am fully aware that a .380, .22, .25, or a .32 can kill you dead where you stand.

Point taken.

[FUJIMO]

Any article I read I take with a grain of salt these days. I'm a "seeing is believing" kind of guy. I also wonder if some articles purposely choose this gun or that gun even before the test starts. While there are statistical facts to back up how many times (enter gun here) ftf or jammed during the test there is also the tester and their opinion that has to weigh in.

Honestly, I usually take away more from this board than I do from some rag mag on the stand at the grocery store or Wal-china. At least here I feel like a guy, or gal as the case may be, really has nothing to gain by coming on here and saying "this gun did this when I went to the range today" so they are more than likely not going to stretch the truth or mislead someone. At least that's how I feel when I read some of these threads. Even then I don't it word for word.

I don't have a single gun on that list but own or have owned the some of the same brands listed. These are manufactured pieces just like anything else and we all know that mistakes can happen during that process.

I feel like if someone buys any gun new and has issues it should send the owner running right back to the company. That's really the only way they know they screwed up or have a design flaw somewhere. Enough people start screaming and they might react to it. A good example is the remington 597.

[Guest Orionsic]

LOL

[Moped]

I fall into the .38 spl category myself. I have a Colt Agent that I care when I feel like the situation might warrant it, which is rarely. It's light (16 oz), accurate and it holds 6 rounds that go bang every time. It also has a smooth as glass trigger.

The reason I favor a .38 is I've never fired a .380acp (or 9mm short or what ever you want to call it) I liked, including a Sig P230 that I owed for a couple of year. It was possibly the most unpleasant pistol I've ever shot. It was accurate and reliable and horrible and I hated it. Outside of the Sig, I never found another .380 that I though was reliable enough to stake my life on.

[DAdams]

I have a Seecamp LWS .380 that has been 100% out of the box. That is Larry Seecamps philosophy,,,,no break in necessary. It's a block of stainles and kicks like a Vegas Showgirl at 12 ounces. It's great for extreme covert carry.

Wiley Clapp tried to get one for said test, but there is a waiting list to get on the buy list. 2 year backlog, so Larry said no, sorry.

I have a PM9 Kahr I trust after one trip back to the factory.

But my favorite pocket carry is still my S&W M&P 340 J Frame Centennial Revolver. .357 capable, night sights, and Crimson Trace 405 grips. 13 ounces.

Nothing wrong with a 642 either. .38 spl plus P

[Tempest455]

I've shot 3,000+ rounds from my Beretta M-9 and it jammed only once. And that's only because I used some cheap crap Russian ammo I got for free from my brother in law.

I'm with some of the others, a good gun does not need a break in period and should shoot right out of the box without problems.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

To each their own, but I won't carry a anything smaller or less potent than a .38 spl. and I'm not in love with that. I have heard it said that any gun is better than no gun, but not for me. I carry a .45 90% of the time. You mouse gun fans might want to think about what you can actually do with those little guns, even if it works.

I would love to carry a 45 daily but I have a pinched nerve in my neck that directly effects my shooting shoulder. I love my friends 45's and have shot several of them. But after a mag or two my shoulder is in major pain.

That said I can fire my EDC SR9 all day without a problem as well as my PPS9 which just goes to show how much more power a 45 has.

But I started with 380's and I was glad to read that the reporter did not rag on my PK all that much, I have between 3 and 400 thur it with out any problems as of yet. Also while reporter dude can shoot hand sized groups at 5 yards I can do the same at 10 with mine.

My friend also has a PK that he can not seem to get thru a mag with without some sort of problem??? The only difference I can see is that I clean mine before ever firing and after every 100-150 rounds while he does neither. Nor does he listen to me.

Something told me to pass on the first PK my store got and I knew he was next on the list so I let him have it, it was all black and I really wanted stainless over black......I ended waiting a good while and then ended up with an all black First Edition:rolleyes:.

After figuring out I wanted to carry it for a BUG I ordered another one so that I could put the FE up.

I also have the S&W PPK 380 that I have over 1000 flawless rounds thru (500 before being sent for recall and the rest after, no difference noted). My problem with that little bugger is that it will bite the fire out of the webbing of my hand and I have left the range bleeding a bit from such, I am looking to get the tail rounded off to help with that. It is a whole lot more accurate than the PK and I can shoot six inch groups at 25 yards with it. I have no idea what they would feel like or if they would penetrate anything but they sure go where I want them to. That pistol is however limited to 6+1. and I dont feel when the zombies come that will be good enough.

Just a few minutes ago my gun guy called and he has just got the SR9 compact in. So I am off to check that out and put some more holes in paper. I am thinking I will move money on other PK to the SRc and use it for a BUG. 10-9's vs 8 380's, and the SR9c will take the full size 17 round mag and even comes with one for a backup, along with the flush bottom 10. It is an odd looking thing from the pics I have seen so I am anxious to get one in hand.

I may well end up being the guinea pig for that model but my 380's will stay close by and ready for back-up or as a main carry if conditions were ever to warrant such.

But I do REALLY wish I could shoot 45's without pain, You have no idea how much I wish I could. But I cant so I must concentrate on being very accurate with what I have and what my shoulder can handle.

And of course priority #1 is to avoid any gunfight at all

[fastbs]

at one time i laughed at the little p3at and lcp till the wife and i were in a gun shop. She had a taurus mill pro 9mm that she just wouldn't carry "it's too big":drama: i told her she never said that to me. Anyway she wouldn't go for a wheel gun but eyed a p3at and had to have it. We took it shooting and i had to polish the feed ramp to get to feed reliably now it's been 100% and accuracy impressed me within 15-20ft. now i have one too. on occassions where iwb isn't possible (dress pants and tucked in shirt) i had always carried my g27 on my ankle but now i put the p3at in my pocket and go. I laugh no more though they still seem cheaply made.

[chuckstur]

I don't buy new guns very often and poo-pooed (is that a word?) the concept of breaking in a gun but my two year old PT145 did need about 1,000 rounds to become reliable.

[Will Carry]

To tell you the truth. I wouldn't buy any of them guns. I have heard a LOT of old timers say that the guns made today are cheap crap. Maybe those old timers don't know guns. What do you think?

[hipower]

The discussion over brand reliability will go on forever. I personally believe the quality of workmanship on each individual gun is more important than brand or caliber. I have a keltec 32 that functions reliabliy and didn't ''require" an extended breakin period. The first session I put 100 rounds downrange and try to do that once a month with it just to keep familiar with it. Round count should be in the 2000+ now.

I have had three PT145's and had no problems with either of them The same with a Milpro PT140. But I have friends who have had issues with the same pistols.

One of the best shooting guns I own is a SW Performance Center 945 Micro Pistol. The most I've ever paid for a gun in my life. But I just had to have a "dependable, high priced 45." It's probably the worst functioning pistols ever--FTF's,FTE's, slide lock issues, magazine problems (just try to find mags for them--almost 6 months from Smith @ 49.00 each). And this out of the Performance center! Yet I have other Smiths I won't part with-59/model 41/revolvers galore.

Two Berettas--one great, one a problem child. Several Springfields, Glocks, Colts, etc.

But my point is this...workmanship and quality parts make quality, dependable products. I don't really think high round breakin periods should be necessary; but it seems to be a give these days with the majority of autoloaders. Just one of the things we have to put up with. JMO

Thanks for reading the old fart's ramblings.