Texas Vigilante

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/190163.php

Not the most choice words......

I will post an article when I see a good one.

[Sheepdog]

"Vigilante" has such a...negative connotation. Can't we just call this guy a "good neighbor"?

[Guest Boomhower]

Holy cow!.....He'll be lucky to get out of this one. On one hand, he does have the right to protect himself, but not when you tell 911 that your going to shot them or that your going to kill them. That's called premeditated. He thought about what he was going to do before he did it. And he did exactly what he said he would do. The only question is, (and this may never be known), did they really turn on him and enter his property in a threating manner.

[Guest bluecanary25]

Boomhower, this is not an attack on you.

Just want to stimulate some discussion and I ain't reel brite ( 'n caint spel nun 2 good), know what I mean?

You mentioned "premeditated".......

Haven't most of us thought of possible situations where we might have the need to draw a weapon and fire upon another living being? To defend ourselves, friends, family and property? Would this not also be "premeditated"? Some people might call it as much.

To me, planning to attack a person or group without being provocted is premeditated.

Being a witness to a crime, calling the authorities and then taking action when "The Proper Authority" fails to arrive. That is reacting to stimuli.

Just my $0.02. BTW, would like that gentleman as my neighbor.

[Guest canynracer]

IMO, he should have been a good witness on this one, unless his neighbors life was in danger...this is from the article...

************************************

Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."

****************************************************

I mean, if his neighbor was not home, nobody was in danger..... I think the guy is in trouble.

[Sheepdog]

From a legal perspective, what this guy did was dumb. Can't argue with that. Not his property, NOT covered by the "castle doctrine," went out to confront the burglars despite being warned not to by the 911 dispatcher, didn't even know the neighbors whose house was being robbed...all of this will put him on very dangerous legal ground, should he be indicted.

However, what this guy did is RIGHT, from a moral perspective. God grant more of us the courage to choose to do the right thing when faced with more legally expedient options.

[jughead]

love to have him for my neighbor too.

[Guest bkelm18]

I agree, this isn't premeditative murder. Otherwise, wouldn't every time a CCW holder killed someone be considered premeditative murder? I mean, whenever you get a carry license, aren't you basically acknowledging the fact that one day you may have to kill someone? I'm not saying what this guy did was right or wrong, but he isn't likely to get out of this one unscathed.

[molonlabetn]

The problem is, even though Texas has some unique laws regarding the defense of ones property... the fellow was not defending his own property, nor was there any presumed threat of harm from the burglars before he confronted them. The neighbor did the right thing by calling the cops, and did the neighborly thing by confronting the burgalars... and even did the smart thing by being armed at the time.

But,

He stated that his intention in confronting them was to shoot (kill) them... that is a far cry from a justified response to the situation, IMHO. I wouldn't do that, and I wouldn't want my neighbor to commit murder over any of my possessions, either.

[towerclimber37]

you know, if you buy something you expect to get it...trouble isn't any different.

I submit that he didn't commit murder. I say he was just taking out the trash.

when the police got there, they found the burglars bodies in his yard.

Instead of looking at it like "its not worth my possessions for me to kill someone" perhaps we should look at it like this "he didn't have to steal to support his drug habit...that profession will get you killed". If it was articulated in that fashion more often, then people would be in a different frame of mind when it comes to perpetrating these illegal acts.

[molonlabetn]

It's certainly not a bad thing that 2 more scum are off the street... But the appearance of the situation certainly does not make the neighbors actions look prudent, in light of the current legal and media environment. I don't think that his actions were morally wrong... I just believe that there is alot more to be lost than gained by these actions in conjunction with his statements.

Appearances being the main issue, here, the situation would be radically different if the statement had not been made to the dispatcher that he was looking to shoot them. I simply cannot support a desire to shoot someone (which is how it appears); but being prepared to, and doing so when necessary, is a whole different issue.

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

Alas, unfortunately the right thing to do isn't always the "right" thing to do. This guy did the right thing, but I'm sure will go through legal hell. They discussed a similar story on the radio where a perp attempted robbery without brandishing a weapon, the victim pulled a weapon, then the perp shot the victim. The perp got off on a 'self defense' clause since he did not draw first (obviously this wasn't TN). I'm all for the principles this country was founded on, but we've gotten so good at protecting the innocent, well, we'll just protect the guilty too. Oh, wait, someone's got to go to jail; First come, first served...........

[Guest Boomhower]

Boomhower, this is not an attack on you.

No no no no....and it wasn't taken as such

You mentioned "premeditated".......

Haven't most of us thought of possible situations where we might have the need to draw a weapon and fire upon another living being? To defend ourselves, friends, family and property? Would this not also be "premeditated"? Some people might call it as much.

Yes I have, but that is called preparation. I can't speak for anybody else, but I carry for self defense reasons. Just because I carry a weapon, does not mean that I have premeditated my actions if I ever need it. I was not taught to take another living beings life, I was taught to neutralize the threat.

To me, planning to attack a person or group without being provocted is premeditated.

Yes it is, but that is not called self defense nor what the castle doctrine was voted into law for, which is what he was stating in the conversation with the 911 dispatcher.

love to have him for my neighbor too.

I will agree here, and I have a few of those, just wish I had a few more.

I agree, this isn't premeditative murder. Otherwise, wouldn't every time a CCW holder killed someone be considered premeditative murder? I mean, whenever you get a carry license, aren't you basically acknowledging the fact that one day you may have to kill someone? I'm not saying what this guy did was right or wrong, but he isn't likely to get out of this one unscathed.

Self defense is a whole different issue. Acknowledging something and planning to do it are two totally different things. I don't have a HCP and carry a gun so that I can look for people to shoot. I do this to defend myself and my family, and probably a few of my friends. As for a third party that I don't know, I'm going to be a much better witness than another possible dead body.

He stated that his intention in confronting them was to shoot (kill) them... that is a far cry from a justified response to the situation, IMHO.

My thoughts exactly.

I never said that this guy committed murder. I said that his actions were premeditated.

"pre·med·i·tate–verb (used with object), -tat·ed, -tat·ing.

to meditate, consider, or plan beforehand: to premeditate a murder."

My premeditated comment was based off of the phone conversation between the neighbor and the 911 dispatcher and any time you verbally commit to an action before you make that action (especially to the authorities), you have just premeditated what you are going to do. Me thinking in my head of how I will handle a situation where I had to defend myself is not premeditated because I have not committed to anything. Just as Eddie said, this guy was not justified in his actions to play good guy, bad guy and kill anyone. But I will agree with every word said here....

The neighbor did the right thing by calling the cops, and did the neighborly thing by confronting the burgalars... and even did the smart thing by being armed at the time.

If he can justify to the authorities that he was in immediate danger at the time that he pulled the trigger, he may get out of this one, but any half way decent attorney will ripe this 911 tape to shreds and this man will more than likely be going to jail for a long time.

[strickj]

I'v got a shotgun you want me to stopem

of carse the answer is no!!

haha

I probably would not ask

[strickj]

If he can justify to the authorities that he was in immediate danger at the time that he pulled the trigger, he may get out of this one, but any half way decent attorney will ripe this 911 tape to shreds and this man will more than likely be going to jail for a long time.

I heard him say at the end that they charged him,so he fired,imo that should do it.

also read the post on youtube about this tape.there are a lot of anti gun dummies saying he could have shot them in the knee's.this is why these dummies are anti-gun.they don't know the damn difference between James bond shooting someone in the knee and not killing them and real life.in real life EVERY gun shot womb can kill you even from a .22

I hate the ignorance and stupidity of these people!!!!