Advice on a 9mm for dual purpose.

[lowbud]

I've seen EAA/Tangfolo Witness' for around $300, they're reliable CZ-clones...

Although I'd also say if you can save or scrape up another $50-100 you could probably get a used Glock or something that's a step up.

Good luck.

+1 on the witness. Actually if the Op isn't in a hurry the possibilities are endless in the used market. Check the auction sites and other internet forums daily. deals can be had. expecially on used glocks, smiths, and rugers.

[Guest forrestcav]

speaking of ranges that rent pistols.....On Target in Murfreesboro rents them. I have a friend who went up there and tried a S&W M&P .40cal, before she bought one. Then she bought the same type at executive protection in Tullahoma for 395.00 out the door. MHO

[Steelharp]

SW9VE

I have heard those are really excellent. Never tried one, but I'd like to.

[lowbud]

I have heard those are really excellent. Never tried one, but I'd like to.

I have had several of them 9mm and 40. I have not run up on a bad one yet. for the money it's the best thing out there IMO.

and don't get me wrong guys. I'm not bashing the quality arms out there nor their price but I also don't bash the less expensive choices. each to their own. if you can afford to buy whatever tickles your fancy, go for it.. If you are on a budget, buy what you can afford.

If the Op wanted opinions of what he could save for I'm quite sure he would have worded it like that. a budget is a budget.. the only choice he has is either stick to the budget or not.

[nightrunner]

as mentioned before, you could pick up a ruger p-series, S&W 3rd gen semiauto, taurus, but I believe the best would be the S&W Sigma SW9VE, great pistol, VERY reliable, cant be beat for the price.

IF it were just for carry, id suggest a Kel-Tec PF9, but that wouldnt be very comfortable to put a few hundred rounds through in a range session.

[lowbud]

as mentioned before, you could pick up a ruger p-series, S&W 3rd gen semiauto, taurus, but I believe the best would be the S&W Sigma SW9VE, great pistol, VERY reliable, cant be beat for the price.

IF it were just for carry, id suggest a Kel-Tec PF9, but that wouldnt be very comfortable to put a few hundred rounds through in a range session.

The P11 would also be a good choice.

[Guest rystine]

okay.. I have a gamble for someone..

I'll meet anyone with my SW9VE and 500 rounds of ammo.

You bring the 9mm pistol of your choice and 500 rounds of ammo

First FTF/FTE pays for the other guys 500 rounds AND add's $100 to the Op's gun kitty.

If in 500 rounds there's no FTF/FTE, You have to publiclly admit to a reliable weapon under $300 new AND add $100 to the Op's pot.

Ammo can be a mix of HP and FMJ but whatever it is.. We shoot the same ammo. something like 250 rounds of each same brand, etc...

So if anyone thinks a reliable gun can't be had for cheap.. feel free to take me up on this.

All that this would prove is that you got lucky enough to get a good one, and there are certainly good budget guns out there.

But it does absolutely nothing to disprove the fact that the odds of getting a good pistol increase dramatically by adding $100-200 to $300 budget.

[lowbud]

All that this would prove is that you got lucky enough to get a good one, and there are certainly good budget guns out there.

But it does absolutely nothing to disprove the fact that the odds of getting a good pistol increase dramatically by adding $100-200 to $300 budget.

Odds of getting a good one? have you even owned one? I have had at least 4 of these and have never known anyone (personally) that got a bad one.

I call BULL****!

[1gewehr]

That's a tough price point.

Suggestions are:

- Tokarev 7.62x25mm pistol with 9mm conversion barrel. That will run right at $300. Polish and Romanian surplus are available, slim, durable, and strong.

- S&W M39, 439, 4309, etc. Slim, easy to shoot well, good ergonomics, double-action, easy to find parts, good customer service from S&W.

- Star BM, BKM, or if you are really lucky BKS. The BKS is the alloy frame version of the compact Star 9mm and is also called the Starlight. All are very slim, reliable, and shoot well.

- EAA Witness Compact. They have an excellent reputation, shoot well, and are double-action with hi-cap mags. If you search, you might run across one in your price range.

[hipower]

With the stated budget, Check out the SW Sigma 9mm/40 series. I bought a Sigma 40 dirt cheap from a kid last year with the intention of trading or making a few dollars on it. After shooting it I decided to keep it as an all-purpose house backup. Shoots really good, really accurate, and have had no FTF/FTE issues at all. It's not my favorite gun by a long shot, but it's cheap and serviceable, and goes Bang! every time so far. And I can't say that about some of the more expensive and finicky guns I've got. JMO.

[Guest rystine]

Odds of getting a good one? have you even owned one? I have had at least 4 of these and have never known anyone (personally) that got a bad one.

I call BULL****!

I must admit that I'm not thinking of the S&W in particular when I'm making my statements, but more of the Taurus and Kel Tecs of the world. I've seen a buddy's Taurus not be able to make it through a single magazine, nor would the one he exchanged for it ETA: and the only revolver that I've ever seen malfunction was a Taurus. And I've seen a Kel Tec with a cracked frame after only 50 rounds.

Now I've also know guys that have had reliable firearms from both of those brands and other "budget" guns. Thats why I say there are good ones out there. But you can't seriously believe that if you buy a taurus/kel tec/etc that your chances of getting a good one are as high as if you spend a little more money for a glock/xd/m&P/etc?

Maybe the latest gen sigmas are an exception? I honestly don't have any experience with them to know.

Edited January 31, 2010 by rystine

[lowbud]

Yeah, kinda what I thought. Actually they have all improved over the years. I can only go by my experience and the experience of other people I know personally who have actually owned these firearms.

I have had several, keltec, taurus, s&w, ruger, and I haven't had a bad one yet. The only bad experience I has was with a taurus 44 mag revolver that blew the end of the barrel the first time I fired it. I had to send it in for repair, which they did.. took forever but it was repaired non the less.

I go through alot of pistols.. buy, sell, trade, even many of the same models.. other's here can attest to that..

Anyway.. Good luck to the Op.. The good people here have given you many options.. now go and get that super deal along with your HCP..

[Guest Jamie]

Rystine, I've had 5 or 6 Taurus guns over the last 10 - 12 years and never got a bad one. 9mms, .357s, .22s... All worked exactly as they were supposed to.

Y'think I just got unbelievably lucky?

J.

[Guest rystine]

Rystine, I've had 5 or 6 Taurus guns over the last 10 - 12 years and never got a bad one. 9mms, .357s, .22s... All worked exactly as they were supposed to.

Y'think I just got unbelievably lucky?

J.

Honestly yea I do think you got unbelievably lucky . If you're happy with them thats what counts. Don' let me disuade you from sticking with Taurus.

[Guest .45]

okay.. I have a gamble for someone..

I'll meet anyone with my SW9VE and 500 rounds of ammo.

I said Taurus was a gamble...not Smith & Wesson.

I agree, the Sigma would be a nice choice for a gun within the OP's budget.

also, not saying that ALL Taurus are bad...just that you don't know what you're gonna get. I've had good Taurus, and I've had sh-- Taurus.

IMHO, they used to be 1/2 way decent guns, but QC lately is not up to the level of my older Tauri... the newer Taurus guns I've handled/shot just aren't on the same level as my older 24/7.

not hating on Taurus, just relaying MY personal experience with them (which IS what the OP was asking for in the 1st place, right??? our experiences regarding which guns might be best?).

bottom line is, he said he's gonna carry it, and there's no way I'd trust my life to a recent production Taurus. ok, flame-suit ON...

.45

Edited January 31, 2010 by .45

[lowbud]

I said Taurus was a gamble...not Smith & Wesson.

I agree, the Sigma would be a nice choice for a gun within the OP's budget.

also, not saying that ALL Taurus are bad...just that you don't know what you're gonna get. I've had good Taurus, and I've had sh-- Taurus.

IMHO, they used to be 1/2 way decent guns, but QC lately is not up to the level of my older Tauri... the newer Taurus guns I've handled/shot just aren't on the same level as my older 24/7.

not hating on Taurus, just relaying MY personal experience with them (which IS what the OP was asking for in the 1st place, right??? our experiences regarding which guns might be best?).

bottom line is, he said he's gonna carry it, and there's no way I'd trust my life to a recent production Taurus.

.45

No the op was asking in his price range. you said to save more $$$ to buy something better.

Anyway.. were all right in one way or another. this is all good for the Op to better his decision.

I could have said to buy a hi-point.. LOL.. I don't knock those either. had several of them too. just wouldn't want to carry one.

[Steelharp]

also, not saying that ALL Taurus are bad...just that you don't know what you're gonna get. I've had good Taurus, and I've had sh-- Taurus.

There is the dilemma. ALL makers build good and bad; it just happens. Not trashing Taurus at all, but it seems that the ratio of bad/good is higher there. And that's what I try to look at.

[Kevo]

Budsgunshop.com usually has S&W Sigmas on sale on the main page. They also have a search engine that you can type in caliber and price range. This will give you a good list of models in your price range. Good Luck and Safe Shooting!

[Guest .45]

No the op was asking in his price range. you said to save more $$$ to buy something better.

correct. and I still think he should...

but if he's truly set on something within that budget, I'd definitely pick the Sigma over his other options (I.E. Taurus, etc).

.45

[lowbud]

Budsgunshop.com usually has S&W Sigmas on sale on the main page. They also have a search engine that you can type in caliber and price range. This will give you a good list of models in your price range. Good Luck and Safe Shooting!

Yeah.. $299 delivered to your FFL. Another $35 give or take to transfer to you. then send off the $50 rebate for either $50 or two hi-cap mags.

$284 in your hands after rebate.

That is the best deal in America today.

[Guest Jamie]

I said Taurus was a gamble...not Smith & Wesson.

Did you miss that whole thread on the M&P with the busted striker? Or how many others suffer(ed) the same problem?

Sorry, but it seems to me that a person is not any more or less likely to get a good/bad gun from any manufacturer these days... and I don't think price really has that much of a connection to anybody's quality control, either.

Oh, and does anybody remember how much trouble Colt had, getting their little .380s to run, back in the 80s? About that same time, I owned an old cheap Llama .380. I think I paid $100 for it new, at a gun show. It rattled like it would fall apart in your hand, but ate anything I fed it and put the bullets where I aimed 'em... at half the price of those Colt Ponies.

And we won't even talk about the guys with their custom 1911s that cost two grand, but won't fire 2 consecutive rounds without choking.

Anyway, the point here is that there are plenty of good reliable 9mms out there to be had for around 300 bucks... It doesn't take half a grand or outrageous luck to find something it's safe to bank your life on, either.

J.

[Guest FiddleDog]

If you can hold out for an extra $100, you can get a Steoger Cougar. Ruger's SR9c looks to be in an approachable Price point.

Taurus Mil-pro definitely fits the bill as is.

I think that it's funny that out of 2 companies that both gone to Brazil (both owned by Bangor Punta at one point) and back and has had similar QA concerns in the past, one gets a pass and the other one is doomed to a bad rep well after they've done above and beyond to try to reconcile. Taurus has a lifetime warranty that follows the weapon and not the owner.

Of your options, I would go with the Taurus. All weapons have had issues in the past, and if you google search " <insert brand name here> problems" you will find pages and pages and pages of complaints, regardless of what brand name you put in, even (gasp) Glock (I know, before I drank the koolaid, I did a ton of searches online for issues, problems, etc).

I have owned a Taurus Mil-pro, and regret letting it go. Once cleaned throughly (they do like to slap a ton of packing grease on it), it never had any feed or fire issues. It ate everything I put through it, and the accuracy is unquestionable. Recoil is minimal, and by minimal, I mean MINIMAL (sorry for yelling). There also is a consensus that they also nailed the ergs, spot on. Also, check out Taurusarmed.net and find out what people that own Tauri think of them. You'll see that there is a well earned following.

Make sure it's a current generation weapon. They did have some significant FTF and stovepipe problems around a decade ago with it's release gen, but the current gen has had the kinks ironed out.

Edited January 31, 2010 by FiddleDog

[Guest .45]

Sorry, but it seems to me that a person is not any more or less likely to get a good/bad gun from any manufacturer these days... and I don't think price really has that much of a connection to anybody's quality control, either.

in that case, maybe we should shift the focus of the thread from recommending/defending our favorite guns, to how to test for reliability...since they're all sh-- anyway.

to the OP...buy any gun you like. shoot 200 rounds of $1/shot defense ammo through it. see how many malfunctions you get. decide how many is acceptable to you if someone was shooting back. if the % is acceptable to you, keep/carry the gun. if it's not, start all over again...

.45

Edited January 31, 2010 by .45

[Guest mikedwood]

Some good advice here. Might be a good idea to look for a package deal on the trading board here or somewhere else where you get a package deal. Holster and a few extra mags.

Cause it doesn't matter if it's a $159 High point or a $2000 Kimber or anything in between a good holster ($50 and up up up, unless you get a pocket gun then a $12.95 pocket holster works great, but a pocket gun makes a terrible range gun) and a good mag ($29.95 to $35.00) cost about the same for every gun out there.

No one told me that when I got my 1st carry gun and it makes a difference in the final cost.

I tried cheaper holsters but they mostly didn't work well at all. A good holster, you get what you pay for. Plus your normal belt probably won't work for holding up a gun that is a good range gun and a good carry gun.

Once you get all that junk then all you need is bullets and start saving for something else.

Edited January 31, 2010 by mikedwood

[turkeydad]

+1 on the p95. . .only way to go in your price range