Critique of post WWII 1911 A1.

[Guest Mugster]

What about accuracy?

As far as I can tell, I might be the only guy in tn routinely shooting at 50 yards with a handgun outside of some contender people. I'm not that great a shot based on what I used to read in the magazines, but if you've got a pistol that can get it done, i'm all ears.

Well, besides a 1911 that is.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

What about accuracy?

As far as I can tell, I might be the only guy in tn routinely shooting at 50 yards with a handgun outside of some contender people. I'm not that great a shot based on what I used to read in the magazines, but if you've got a pistol that can get it done, i'm all ears.

Glock 22

disclaimer: I hate my glock 27 and I dont like glocks in general, but I talked with someone last week that made 50yd "brain box" shots with a glock 22 @ 50yds.

[Mark@Sea]

The closest thing to perfection anyone could ask for is a handgun which is in one's hand when we need it, works properly, and has enough ammunition...)

Dead on the money. At one time the perfect pistol was a nickel plated 32 auto, POS if you ever saw one, but it persuaded the gentleman who was touring my apartment that my skull didn't really need a pipewrench remodeling.

Consider the wheel. Is it perfect? - well, I want my flying car, dang it, but wheels will do the job in the meantime. The wheel has been around since - well, probably before Marswolfs' time.

Tungsten - Lamp?

[The Rabbi]

What about accuracy?

As far as I can tell, I might be the only guy in tn routinely shooting at 50 yards with a handgun outside of some contender people. I'm not that great a shot based on what I used to read in the magazines, but if you've got a pistol that can get it done, i'm all ears.

Well, besides a 1911 that is.

Smith 952. SIG P210. Both top of the line products and even with price tags over $1k still cheaper than most high end 1911s.

[Guest Mugster]

Smith 952. SIG P210. Both top of the line products and even with price tags over $1k still cheaper than most high end 1911s.

I got to admit, you got me on the sig 210 and it is priced right.

I'll go back in my hole now.

[towerclimber37]

The Smith Model 10 has been around in its various forms, mostly unchanged, since 1899. It is still current production at Smith and still used by police departments (OK, in Luxembourg). I wouldn't say that makes it perfection or that every gun since then is descended from it.

so you don't make claims (yah right). I may be wrong...thats fine. I'm not going to argue about it. I am a browning religionist.

you like wheel guns. I like automatics. in the end it really doesn't matter what you or I think since I am convinced you think a hot turd has a MOA accuracy and ultimate reliability and I'm willing to bet you think I'm an imbecil who should "listen to his betters"... either that or we just like antagonizing each other.:slapfight:

[The Rabbi]

I don't care whether you like semi's or not. I own some and like them too.

What I do object to is people making outlandish claims for the 1911, like it represents perfection or that every other gun is descended from it, or that it originated features found on all guns since.

You like the 1911 and it works for you. Great. But don't make ignorant unfounded claims and then not expect to get called on them.

[DaveTN]

I will readily concede that the 1911 remains an enduring favorite, even while it's been superceded in common usage among professionals who use a pistol every day.

Professionals like FBI SWAT, FBI HRT, LAPD SWAT, and others I’m sure?

[The Rabbi]

Professionals like FBI SWAT, FBI HRT, LAPD SWAT, and others I’m sure?

OK. You've named 2 departments. What other LE departments issue the 1911? Since you;re sure you shouldn't have too much problem naming a bunch.

Which brand of 1911 do departments in Illinois issue?

[molonlabetn]

OK. You've named 2 departments. What other LE departments issue the 1911? Since you;re sure you shouldn't have too much problem naming a bunch.

Which brand of 1911 do departments in Illinois issue?

The ones that just switched from the model 10, of course!...

<ducks and runs for cover>

Smith 952. SIG P210. Both top of the line products and even with price tags over $1k still cheaper than most high end 1911s.

Good calls, both...

[The Rabbi]

The ones that just switched from the model 10, of course!...

Depts that switched from the Model 10 typically went to other S&W products. Nashville went to the Model 64, same thing in stainless.

Once the wheel gun era was over those same depts went to either the Smith&Wesson 9mm 3- and 4-digit series or to the Glock. Some have gone to SIGs, some to Berettas. A couple to H&K.

But not one I'm aware of (maybe there's one in Washington state) to ole slabsides.

[Marswolf]

The wheel has been around since - well, probably before Marswolfs' time.

Careful Mark...I know where you live and I may sic one of my pet dinosaurs on you!

About the 50 yard shooting thingy, Mark@Sea and I were talking about that yesterday over coffee. Except that we were talking about shooting various handguns at 100 yards, including 1911s....

[Guest Mugster]

Careful Mark...I know where you live and I may sic one of my pet dinosaurs on you!

About the 50 yard shooting thingy, Mark@Sea and I were talking about that yesterday over coffee. Except that we were talking about shooting various handguns at 100 yards, including 1911s....

Target small, need scope Batman.

[towerclimber37]

I don't care whether you like semi's or not. I own some and like them too.

What I do object to is people making outlandish claims for the 1911, like it represents perfection or that every other gun is descended from it, or that it originated features found on all guns since.

You like the 1911 and it works for you. Great. But don't make ignorant unfounded claims and then not expect to get called on them.

*sigh* ok you asked for it..

what recoil design principle does the 1911 use? what recoil principle does the GLOCK use? the beretta?

now!! for the killing question, where did this design originate?

for those of you too lazy to look it up, the short recoil design principle originated? how about we just throw out a LINK TO BACK UP MY IGNORANT UNFOUNDED CLAIMS. http://www.rkba.org/guns/principles/operating-systems/short-recoil.html

..hey..would you look at that?!?! how did they put those names in there??? you know? glock, SMITH AND WESSON, Sig Saur.

who do they attribute that to?

dang..all those unfounded, ignorant claims really come back to bite you in the ass don't they?

[fury2neon]

Wow, whatever happened to that beating a dead horse graphic...

[towerclimber37]

Wow, whatever happened to that beating a dead horse graphic...

Sorry Wes...while I AM a bit ignorant, I take offense to the outlandish part of his reposte'.

if anything I'm INlandish...and proud of it!

we got off topic anyhow since this was a critique of the post ww2 1911's...which still use the same principle btw.

[fury2neon]

Actually I just thought that graphic was funny and it would fit in here and about three other threads running. If for no other reason a good laugh.

[Marswolf]

Wow, whatever happened to that beating a dead horse graphic...

I wonder that too. I just looked for it for another topic but couldn't find it.

But let me tell you my opinion of Glocks.

[The Rabbi]

*sigh* ok you asked for it..

what recoil design principle does the 1911 use? what recoil principle does the GLOCK use? the beretta?

now!! for the killing question, where did this design originate?

for those of you too lazy to look it up, the short recoil design principle originated? how about we just throw out a LINK TO BACK UP MY IGNORANT UNFOUNDED CLAIMS. http://www.rkba.org/guns/principles/operating-systems/short-recoil.html

..hey..would you look at that?!?! how did they put those names in there??? you know? glock, SMITH AND WESSON, Sig Saur.

who do they attribute that to?

dang..all those unfounded, ignorant claims really come back to bite you in the ass don't they?

The internet is dangerous in the hands of someone untrained in its use.

The 1911 uses a "short recoil" system. This system was neither designed nor "perfected" by Browning. He did use it both in the 1911 and in the Hi Power.

Browning's short recoil system uses a moveable link. This feature is not found on modern firearms, that I am aware of.

OTOH, the Walther P38/P1 uses a system described as:

The P38 was the first locked-breech pistol to use a double-action trigger. The shooter could load a round into the chamber, use the de-cocking lever to safely lower the hammer without firing the round, and carry the weapon loaded with the hammer down. A pull of the trigger, with the hammer down, fired the first shot and the operation of the pistol ejected the fired round and reloaded a fresh round into the chamber, all features found in many modern day handguns.

Carry the weapon loaded with hammer down. Hmm, what does that sound like? If you said every pistol since WW2 that has an external hammer, you'd be right.

Talking about short recoil is sure a looonnnngg way from:

well..I'd say that its pretty dang perfect simply because of its longevity of service..but since you can't grasp that most of the free world either a. still uses the 1911 or has a variation of it..whats the point?

I'd say that you'll find a variation of the 1911's trigger mechanism, grip safeties, or recoil mechanism on just about every automatic that you take apart. imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

As we've established, not only does "most of the free world" (assuming we define free world as beyond FBI's HRT and the 1911 Forum) not use a 1911 or a variant, but also that the statement:

His trigger mechanism has been imitated moreso than any other automatic handgun in the world.

is demonstrably false.

Further, the statement:

Likewise, most all automatic pistols, even the ones made by that retard Gaston, are built upon the basic principles that JMB incorporated into his pistols.

is simply ignorant.

So enjoy your 1911. But quit posting nonsense.

[towerclimber37]

took you long enough to respond...I guess you had to go a long way to find a pistol that DIDN'T use an innovation created by browning.

there's more than one way to skin a cat, likewise there is more than one way to build a pistol.

that movable link? look on the bottom lug of your pistol barrel..you know..where the take down pin slides through? that acts as a movable link.

I may have been wrong about the trigger (thats' ok. I'm fallible.) but I'm comfortable with the rest of it.

hahahah btw, that link you provided? the very first picture of a "modern day handgun" is a browning.