OPEN CARRY

[rentalguy1]

I still don't get OC. What, is it 1880 again? Hide that damn thing! It doesn't make you look like a man, or cool, or special. It only makes other folks wonder why you have a gun on your hip. Make no mistake, there are fewer gun owners than there are non-gun owners these days. This is especially true in the major metropolitan areas. I think it's completely silly...

[setsdw]

I open carry daily with my two 45LC SA's on the hip and usually have two bandoliers of extra ammo making an X across my chest.

[Guest wdb45]

I'm like most responders here in that I CC because I don't want the "bad dudes" to know I'm carrying. That said, I am not overly concerned if the tip of my holster shows, etc. BTW, I've been carrying legally for 12 years and have never been hassled by a LEO about it.

[Guest biggun215]

no offense biggun "THE GENERAL CITIZENS DONT TRAIN FOR THAT. THEY SHOOT PAPER ONCE IN A BLUE MOON."...And what would explain the LEO's returning fire, emptying clips and not hitting the perps?

THE POLICE ARE USUALLY BEHIND THE CURVE AND HAVING TO REACT TO A THREAT, WHILE THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE POOR SHOOTING, IT DOES EXPLAIN A PORTION OF IT. MOST OF THE OFFICERS I KNOW, WITH THE EXCEPTIONS OF THE OLDER MORE SEASONED OFFICERS, THAT HAVE BEEN IN SHOOTINGS NEVER PUT THE TIME INTO TRAINING NOR KEPT THEMSELVES IN ANY KIND OF PHYSICAL SHAPE, ALL LEADING CAREER CRIMINALS TO THINK THEY COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM. LUCKILY THEY SURVIVED. HOWEVER, THIS THREAD IS TAKING ABOUT CC VS. OC NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT ACCURACY.

[Guest Catdaddy]

When TN first began to issue CCP years ago, I got mine, because I had been in two situations where only the presence of another person, unseen by the bad guys, kept me from being robbed at my place of biz.

I carried on my hip there, largely because CC is less comfy. I covered up, or carried my BUG in a pocket elsewhere.

ONE TIME I stopped in at my local hardware/gun shop for some ammo, and, not having a lockable vehicle, carried open into the store. I was OPENLY HARASSED ny the then-sherrif and told if he saw me open carry again, he'd blah blah blah.

I told him he might have the power to do so, but the lawsuit I'd throw on his ass would be beyond belief, and that he ought to be more informed on the actual law (as it DID change to open carry allowed).

He fumed and stomped off, and that was that- but I honestly believe that CC is the absolute best way. As someone pointed out to me once, you are advertising "free gun" to anyone who wants to smack you upside the back of the head with a baseball bat and walk off with your piece.

However I don't fret in the least that someone will see a glimpse of my gun and freak- that is their problem.

Most of all, I don't want to be the straw that causes another establishment to post NO GUNS.

Funny postscript- said sheriff was NOT reelected, and subsequently became a guest in one of TN's fine rehabilitation facilities.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Catdaddy

[Guest clownsdd]

biggunn, you brought it up with the statement you made, not me. By the way, please cut the caps..looks like you are hollering and is hard to read.

That being said, the TN gubment in an unusual case of wisdom, noticed that permit holders in CC states were having a problem with the gun being exposed ie, reaching for an object on an upper shelf and the gun becoming exposed. At that point, they were breaking a cc state's law...gun was visible.

In that brain fart the legislature had, oc was allowed to prevent this kind of problem, not necessarily endorsing OC. Will wonders never cease?

[tnhawk]

THEY SHOOT PAPER ONCE IN A BLUE MOON.

The range I frequent, is usually at or near capacity. Some of the paper shooters spend several hours a month in practice.

Isn't open carry similar to wearing a shoot me first vest?

Edited February 1, 2010 by tnhawk

[Guest biggun215]

sorry about all caps, no yelling intended, just easier to type, beside i work for the gov.... which means i am lazy and not too bright.

[Guest clownsdd]

no problem, thanks

[JayC]

I love this point... but here is my reply...

You're dressed up for a business meeting with a button down shirt and slacks... on the way home you stop to run into the store and are approached by a mugger... Would you rather A. be open carrying or B. be unarmed...

I'm going to pick A every time over B...

The fact is that many times it's not feasible or comfortable to carry concealed.... In those cases you're forced to make a choice between being unarmed or open carry... Personally I think it's better to open carry than not carry at all.

Don't get me wrong, I think CC is the best solution, but OC is still way better than not carrying.

Like my instructor said when I took the course "if someone robs a bank and you got your gun out in the open who is gonna get shot first" but besides that it does make alot of people uncomfortable altough the don't understand it is even for their saftey!!! I had a guy that was selling me ammo at the local walmart was telling me how unsafe it was and that if he saw someone carrying he would be freaked because "guns are for home defense" and i looked at the lady next to me and asked if he knew I was carrying and he said your not and the lady next to me said "how about me" even though we live in the south and have the 2nd people do still freak sometimes

[Guest Jamie]

There's another advantage to open carry that most people never mention: You can comfortably carry one helluva big gun.

Got a .50 cal Desert Eagle you've been dying to pack? Well, IWB ain't gonna cut it. You're gonna need something pretty close to a Hollywood cowboy rig to tote that puppy and still be able to move.

Hell, you can probably even find a thigh holster for an AK pistol, if you look hard enough.

J.

[rentalguy1]

Why can you not conceal in a suit? Truth is, you can. Also, I IWB carry a PT92 every day, and I'm comfortable. The size of the gun doesn't matter as much as how you dress.

[Warbird]

I love this point... but here is my reply...

You're dressed up for a business meeting with a button down shirt and slacks... on the way home you stop to run into the store and are approached by a mugger... Would you rather A. be open carrying or B. be unarmed...

I'm going to pick A every time over B...

The fact is that many times it's not feasible or comfortable to carry concealed.... In those cases you're forced to make a choice between being unarmed or open carry... Personally I think it's better to open carry than not carry at all.

Don't get me wrong, I think CC is the best solution, but OC is still way better than not carrying.

I wear suits or dress shirt slacks and a sport coat often. I always carry OWB in these cases and I have never had anyone spot that I am wearing a gun. I usually wear 3 button coats as they have more room and if i rarely button up the coat.

[Guest TnRebel]

.........we always beat around the old open carry bush. While legal, harassment will ensue. Someone will call the cops on you OR the cops will show up at your door asking what was going on. Yes TGO'ers...this happened to a friend. He decided to run to the gas station and grab a pack of smokes. While leaving, an elderly woman noticed his pistol and called 911. Apperantly she took down his liscense tag and reported the type of vehicle he was driving. 15 minutes after he was home, Oak Ridge City Police had 3 cop cars and K-9 sitting in front of his house. My buddy and I exited his house with our permits in our hands. The officers already knew he had a permit to carry from the information given by dispatch. After checking my credintals and a quick chat, 5 minutes later everything was sorted out and everyone left.

The police gave one bit of advice......do not open carry. Carry as concealed as possible to avoid situations like these. The officers said they have better things to do then to chase a permit holder down. A heavy percent of the population, especially elders, are and always will be scared of guns. We'll never change thier minds so it's best to try to prevent the harassment of permit holders by doing our little part and keeping our firearms hidden from the public......

A heavy percent of the population, especially elders, are and always will be scared of guns.

You havent been to Florida much , have you, about half the permit holders in Florida are over 65 . And thats a bunch . you can only open carry on your own property in Florida. I was looking forward to OC here in my new home of Tn.

Edited February 1, 2010 by TnRebel

[Guest Linoge]

I still don't get OC. What, is it 1880 again? Hide that damn thing! It doesn't make you look like a man, or cool, or special. It only makes other folks wonder why you have a gun on your hip. Make no mistake, there are fewer gun owners than there are non-gun owners these days. This is especially true in the major metropolitan areas. I think it's completely silly...

Think as you like, and I will do as I like. Thanks.

Speaking as someone who started openly carrying a few months ago, here are some reasons as to why I do so:

1. It is my right, as a law-abiding citizen of America.

2. I can. Tennessee is one of the states that allows open carry so long as you have a handgun carry permit, so I may as well enjoy the ability while I can.

3. I firmly believe in leading by example. The fact is, over 220,000 law-abiding Tennessee residents have permits to carry firearms... and yet how many of them do you see on the street on a daily basis? You have no way of knowing, since the vast majority of them carry concealed. The mother-of-three in the check-out line behind you could be packing a .45, and you would never know. Unfortunately, that lack of knowledge may end up damaging us more than we realize... when "concealed carriers" are a nameless, faceless crowd that can be easily demonized thanks to that anonymity, it becomes that much easier to marginalize them. However, when people realize that the mother-of-three in the check-out line behind them is carrying a .45, they can no longer write off gun-carriers as crazed lunatics looking to shoot anyone at a moment's hesitation. Once average Americans realize that those lawfully pack heat are just average Americans themselves, that person they start demonizing becomes themselves, and maybe we start making some inroads on the "public opinion" fronts... and to me, that is completely worth it.

4. It seems more comfortable. Especially here in Tennessee in the summer, carrying a pistol inside my waistband can be somewhat uncomfortable, bad for the leather, and bad for my non-black underwear. While carrying a firearm is not something that should be undertaken lightly, neither does it have to be an imposition.

I have some other thoughts on the matter, and someone older and wiser than me has some more-recent support of open carry.

It sucks that some people abuse our right to openly carry firearms for whatever reason we deem so necessary, but that is, unfortunately, the problem with all rights - some people act like jerks online, just because they can, too.

In any case, arbitrarily claiming "that is silly, do not do it" is no better of an argument than those put forward by anti-rights advocates around the country - "that scares me, do not do it". I would like to think we are somewhat above that line of fallacious and erroneous "reasoning".

Edited February 1, 2010 by Linoge

[Guest clownsdd]

There have been many opinions posted, and none are wrong, One of the rights we have is to agree to disagree..ya like OC...do it...ya like CC...do it. Regardless of YOUR opinion, in this case, there will always be differences, so it is really a moot point with no discussion needed and no really "right" answer. Do what ya gotta do.

Remember, opinions are like a++holes, every one has one and they all stink but mine.

[Currently]

My two cents ...

It draws attention to you, most of it unwanted.

It will not deter an idiot from confronting you.

I will just let the other pennies rattle in my pocket.

[mcurrier]

I love this point... but here is my reply...

You're dressed up for a business meeting with a button down shirt and slacks... on the way home you stop to run into the store and are approached by a mugger... Would you rather A. be open carrying or B. be unarmed...

I'm going to pick A every time over B...

Bad analogy. If a mugger were to approach you in this case, and you've only made it a few feet between your car and the store door:

1. The "mugger" has pretty much already made you carrying and is approaching because of it, wanting your gun, not necessarily your wallet.

2. He is armed and already has his weapon out.

3. It's almost impossible to draw and beat a weapon that's already on you. He's got the drop on you.

Sure, better to have a gun than not in just about any situation, but the analogy is flawed. A guy coming up to you just from your car to the door of the store has probably seen more of you than you have of him.

[Guest HexHead]

Bad analogy. If a mugger were to approach you in this case, and you've only made it a few feet between your car and the store door:

1. The "mugger" has pretty much already made you carrying and is approaching because of it, wanting your gun, not necessarily your wallet.

2. He is armed and already has his weapon out.

3. It's almost impossible to draw and beat a weapon that's already on you. He's got the drop on you.

Sure, better to have a gun than not in just about any situation, but the analogy is flawed. A guy coming up to you just from your car to the door of the store has probably seen more of you than you have of him.

We always hear of this type scenario as a reason not to OC, but I've never read in the news of it actually happening. It's like the pro-gun version of the wild west shootouts we were supposed to get when permits were issued. Or when the guns in restaurants bill was passed.

[rentalguy1]

Think as you like, and I will do as I like. Thanks.

Speaking as someone who started openly carrying a few months ago, here are some reasons as to why I do so:

I have some other thoughts on the matter, and someone older and wiser than me has some more-recent support of open carry.

It sucks that some people abuse our right to openly carry firearms for whatever reason we deem so necessary, but that is, unfortunately, the problem with all rights - some people act like jerks online, just because they can, too.

In any case, arbitrarily claiming "that is silly, do not do it" is no better of an argument than those put forward by anti-rights advocates around the country - "that scares me, do not do it". I would like to think we are somewhat above that line of fallacious and erroneous "reasoning".

Fella, if you wanna scare people and turn them even more against our right to own and carry guns, then that's your business. If you think that is not what's going on every time you OC, you are ill-informed. Thanks for exercising your rights at the detriment to the rest of us, just because you can.

[Guest Jamie]

3. It's almost impossible to draw and beat a weapon that's already on you. He's got the drop on you.

True if you're drawing from concealment, not necessarily true if you're drawing from an uncovered holster.

Action is faster than reaction... the person holding a gun on you will take an average of a quarter of a second to recognize what you're doing and another .25 to react to that. In other words, it changes from you having to react to the BG's actions, to him or her having to react to yours.

And I don't know about you, but my old slow ass can still draw and fire from an open holster in under .5 second. And hit what I'm shooting at.

Can't do it from a covered holster though...

J.

[Guest Linoge]

Fella, if you wanna scare people and turn them even more against our right to own and carry guns, then that's your business. If you think that is not what's going on every time you OC, you are ill-informed. Thanks for exercising your rights at the detriment to the rest of us, just because you can.

Did you even read what I wrote? Seriously? I am honestly starting to doubt it.

Furthermore, can you come anywhere near providing factual support for your statement that my lawfully, politely, and safely carrying a firearm openly is "scaring" people to the point that they would actively and intentionally work against us and our rights? People, to be specific, who are not already working against our rights?

Because, after openly carrying for about six months or so, and keeping up with the debates as they float around the blogosphere, that claim is turning out to be as specious as the "but a criminal will target you for just your gun!" theory - everyone says it, no one has any examples.

But, hey, if you are so concerned about scaring the white folks, I guess sitting in the back of the bus is not that big of a deal after all...

[rentalguy1]

Did you even read what I wrote? Seriously? I am honestly starting to doubt it.

Furthermore, can you come anywhere near providing factual support for your statement that my lawfully, politely, and safely carrying a firearm openly is "scaring" people to the point that they would actively and intentionally work against us and our rights? People, to be specific, who are not already working against our rights?

Because, after openly carrying for about six months or so, and keeping up with the debates as they float around the blogosphere, that claim is turning out to be as specious as the "but a criminal will target you for just your gun!" theory - everyone says it, no one has any examples.

But, hey, if you are so concerned about scaring the white folks, I guess sitting in the back of the bus is not that big of a deal after all...

I only go off of experience, and my experience of being around OC'ers in this state is that they have ALWAYS made someone around them uncomfortable. I'm not saying that they make EVERYONE uncomfortable, just a few. That's all it takes. And they most likely won't say anything to you, or make a scene while you're there. They will run home and make a call or a write a blog or letter to the editor. They don't have the nerve to say it to your face, but as far as our cause goes, that matters not. What they won't say to our face is even worse than if they were to confront us. They take away our opportunity to debate by doing that, and the know it.

If you don't see how OC'ing in populous areas could be detrimental to our cause, then I could never convince you, no matter what. My dad always told me that, "Little boys that can't learn, have to feel." The problem here is that when enough of the populous decides to get loud enough over the OC issue, it will effect all of us, and not just the ones who can't learn. These people are out there, everywhere, in this state. They want nothing more than to take our gun rights away.

[JReedEsq]

First let me say that I don't OC. However, I have to chime in in favor of the OCers on one issue that has arisen in the debate. I cannot buy the "criminal will steal your gun" arguement. I find that nearly impossible to believe. The vast majority of criminals are cowards. They look for a vunerable and easy target. I don't OC because I don't want the attention and I don't want businesses etc... to post because of OC. I just can't buy the "he want's to steal your gun" arguement at all. They would much rather steal your car or your wallet and I believe the vast majority will look for someone who won't put up a fight.

I certainly wouldn't OC standing in line at the bank. I believe the "shoot me first" arguement is a lot more credible than the "he'll steal your gun" arguement. In that situation I'd much rather CC. As I said I don't OC, but I have no problem with those who do at the right time and place.

Edited February 2, 2010 by JReedEsq

[Guest Linoge]

So, in short, no factual examples to provide for your case, and yes, "back of the bus" is your preferred seating location, if you are allowed to sit on the bus at all. After all, we do not want to get all uppity and scare the white folks...

Good to know some people prefer the status of "persecuted minority" (because that is what you are describing, with your very own words), and will militantly and gleefully stab anyone who would do something to try and ameliorate the situation in the back.

And just to clarify the situation, yes, I am fully aware that some people are going to get disturbed at the sight of people like me lawfully, respectfully, and carefully openly carrying our firearms in public. People also still get upset at the view of mixed-race couples, spuds like me having "real" jobs in NYC, dresses that stop above women's ankles, and so forth. In all honesty, I do not care about those people who fly off the handle at the sight of a lawfully-exercised right - like you, nothing I could say, do, or ague is going to make the slightest bit of difference in their narrow, bigoted, intolerant mind. However, if we were to follow their wishes, and the logical extension of your wishes (rights that cause "problems" should not be exercised), the voter rolls in this country would be cut in half, combines would become superfluous, and busses would become monotone.

If you do not want to openly carry, then fine, more power to you - I certainly am not going to force anyone to do so, any more than I would force anyone to carry a firearm in general... or not carry a firearm. But as someone older and wiser than me said on the topic, "Let's not be so stupid as to think the same solution is appropriate for every situation." Sometimes I concealed carry. Sometimes I open carry. Sometimes I do not carry at all. But I would very, very much rather that I lived in a world where law-abiding citizens peaceably carrying firearms on their hips was not only acceptable, it was the norm, and that is simply not going to happen until we start trying to normalize the activity in general, because no one is going to do it for us.

But, hey, if you want to keep riding around in the back of the bus (if you are allowed a seat at all), then have fun with that - you will have to excuse some of us for not sharing your Stockholm-Syndrome-like willingness to be persecuted. And, if you will not excuse us, you are going to have to field far better arguments than Brady-Bunch-like "I do not like that, so do not do it," nonsense - even if I had not already been around the block a few times on this debate, arguments like that have little-to-no bearing with me... so I guess you are absolutely right, neh?