Revolver Jam

[Guest Straight Shooter]

Took a young lady shooting Friday. She brought a new S&W Airweight .38, another older S&W snubbie, and a 6" S&W .357.

The ammo we were using was Winchester white box 130 fmj truncated cone .38's.

After shooting over half a box and having good results, after reloading an empty cylinder, one or two shots were fired,then the gun locked up. Wouldnt revolve,and was hard as hell to open. Further examination showed one round with deep scratches on the casehead. It sat noticably higher in the cylinder than the other rounds. I put it in my pocket,and we kept shooting the rest of the day.

This is just to remind you, that all weapons can jam/malfunction/stop working. Had she had this round in her carry gun,and had to use it, well GOD help her. Back in '84, I bought a new S&W 686 .357 right outta boot camp.{$212!!} Anyway, this gun would not fire one full cylinder. Would lock up,and you had to nearly beat it open. Took it back, they looked suspiciously at me,but gave me another. Went home.....same thing. Took it back, and this time they really didnt believe me. But,after some hell raisin, I got yet another,with the stern admonition "thats the last time", and took it home. Shot wonderfuly,had it for many years. Found out a few years later S&W had a recall, the chambers were cut undersized. So hope this helps some of you avoid disaster.

[Oh Shoot]

After shooting over half a box and having good results, after reloading an empty cylinder, one or two shots were fired,then the gun locked up. Wouldnt revolve,and was hard as hell to open. Further examination showed one round with deep scratches on the casehead. It sat noticably higher in the cylinder than the other rounds. I put it in my pocket,and we kept shooting the rest of the day.

...

So, this was in the Air Weight?

It's a known issue in them, more with .357 and .38 +p, and usually in heavy bullet weights (I believe SW has something in the manual about not using over 125 gr bullets or something). Frame doesn't absorb enough of the recoil, so unfired bullet can be driven too far out of the casing and jam.

Of course any weight bullet with a too loose crimp would be susceptible in any weight revolver, too, would seem to me.

- OS

[Guest joelstephen]

Its on the 357 airweights not to use ammo under 125 grain, becase of comprimising the top strap with the extra heat and burn

[Oh Shoot]

Its on the 357 airweights not to use ammo under 125 grain, becase of comprimising the top strap with the extra heat and burn

Oh, it's lighter rather than heavy, couldn't remember.

Downloadable manual now just gives a general warning about "unseating", which was what I was mentioning (I believe the last sentence addresses what you mention):

"AMMUNITION SELEC-TIONFOR Ti, Sc& PDSeries REVOLVERS

Before placing any of these reduced weight revolvers into

service, perform the following test to determine the suitability

of the ammunition you intend to use.

At a gun range or other suitable and safe location, prepare your

revolver for firing by fully loading its cylinder with the ammunition

to be tested. While pointing the firearm in a safe direction, fire all

but the last round. Remove the empty casings and the last

loaded round from the revolverʼs cylinder.

Carefully inspect the loaded round to determine if its bullet has

started to unseat (move forward) from its casing.(Figure 2) If it

has, you should not use the tested ammunition in your revolver.

Choose another projectile weight or brand of

ammunition and repeat this test until you find one that

DOES NOT UNSEAT under these test conditions. When you are

finished, fully unload your revolver and secure it safely.

CAUTION:

Do not use Magnum loadings with bullet weights of less than 120

grains - This will reduce the possibility of premature erosion in

titanium alloy cylinders."

- OS

[Guest Straight Shooter]

Sorry for the confusion, yes this happened on the Airweight. I have the round here next to me. It has not unseated. Looks to me like the casehead is thicker than it should be. I think its a malformed round, but dont have the ability to check, and wouldnt know what to look for if I did.

I wish I could post a pic, but cant. For clarity, I do not blame the revolver...just the ammo.

[Oh Shoot]

Sorry for the confusion, yes this happened on the Airweight. I have the round here next to me. It has not unseated. Looks to me like the casehead is thicker than it should be. I think its a malformed round, but dont have the ability to check, and wouldnt know what to look for if I did.

I wish I could post a pic, but cant. For clarity, I do not blame the revolver...just the ammo.

Well, if case is malformed, it was same when it was first loaded. How did it go into cylinder chamber easily in the first place, allowing shots fired and rotation, but only bind afterward, is what I can't quite get?

- OS

[Guest Straight Shooter]

Heck if I know OhShoot. Id say the casehead is "thicker" than normal. I only know it would bind up the gun after three attempts to fire it.

Gun was fired many more times that day, no problems occured.

[Guest Hammerdown]

Sorry for the confusion, yes this happened on the Airweight. I have the round here next to me. It has not unseated. Looks to me like the casehead is thicker than it should be. I think its a malformed round, but dont have the ability to check, and wouldnt know what to look for if I did.

I wish I could post a pic, but cant. For clarity, I do not blame the revolver...just the ammo.

Hello Straight Shooter

The revolver was doing it's Job, by the sounds of it, You had some defective ammo. I would contact Winchester and tell them what happened. They will more than Likely send you a Free box, but if it were me I sure wouldn't want any more of it. Case learned cheaper lines of ammo can lead to quality issues. If you are carrying it, But self defense ammo Pay the Higher Price and get ammo that is made to Higher quality standards. That white Box ammo is not the best quality, Just Like Remington's Green & white box ammo. It is designed for {Target Practice} and I have heard many complaints just like yours about it. S&W has a Good product but you have to feed it Good ammo if you expect it to perform flawless....I have found that S&B ammo is Good stuff and a lot of time's more moderate in price than the Winchester White Box or Remington Green & White Box ammo... get ya some... Hammerdown

[leroy]

Sorry for the confusion, yes this happened on the Airweight. I have the round here next to me. It has not unseated. Looks to me like the casehead is thicker than it should be. I think its a malformed round, but dont have the ability to check, and wouldnt know what to look for if I did.

I wish I could post a pic, but cant. For clarity, I do not blame the revolver...just the ammo.

Straightshooter:_________

I have seen this happen mostly with reloads on smiths big and small. The cylinder will lock up due to the tight tolerances between the ejector rod and crane. It happens with too light a bullet crimp and a flake type powder like Unique (for me, anyway). The unburned powder can get under the extractor star and lock the revolver up. Take a look and see if you can see any unburned powder residue around (or under) the extractor star.

Hope this heips.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Guest Straight Shooter]

Thanks Hammerdown & leroy!

Im sure it was just that one round of ammo. Shot a lot more that day,no prob.

Just proves their are a lot of variables out there, anything can happen. Hopefully your on the range when you do!

[Guest 10mm4me]

Revolver Jam tastes pretty good on a homemade biscuit.Always good to test fire 5 rds or so from every batch of ammo to make sure stuff like this don't happen.Especially your carry ammo.

[wjh2657]

As the owner of more S&W snubbies than I will ever need, I read your post with trepidation. I have owned and fired S&W revolvers for over 50 years and have a lot of faith in them. However, three things will reach up and bite you if you are not careful:

• Guns should be kept very clean (not just annually and do learn how to take sideplate off)
  
• Ammo needs some Quality Assurance on your part (Inspect it!)
  
• Keep everything tightened (screws and ejector rod)
  

If you follow the above, you are going to have about as reliable of a handgun as you can get. It can still happen that you somehow get bad ammo. I've never had problems with WWB 130gr but that doesn't mean it can't happen.I use 130gr WWB for practice ammo even now. I avoid Remington,MAGTECH and the Russian stuff like the plague. I carry Hornady.

Of course the above rules would work with a Glock ,Ruger or 1911 too! Don't know about other handguns, I don't buy them.

Edited January 30, 2010 by wjh2657

[Guest davidz71]

After years of shooting S&W mdl. 29, 19, 64, 65, 66 and 686's, I bought my first J frame in the M&P340. I wanted a small revolver to just stick in a jacket pocket or for wear with an IWB holster. My first 5 rds. at our range was with some Winchester 125 gr. +P HP. I then loaded the cyl. with 5 rds. of 158 gr. RNL. The first 2 shots were fine but as I squeezed the trigger to the rear on the 3 rd. round, the sear did not allow the hammer to fall. It did the same thing on the remaining 2 rounds. I noticed which charge holes failed to fire the rounds, unloaded all rounds and loaded 5 more. The revolver failed to fire on the exact same 3 charge holes of the cylinder. Back to S&W it went and several weeks later it was returned with new pawl and extractor star. She has been fine with 3 boxes of 158 gr. RNL and one box of 125 gr. HP so far. I've also fired a few rounds of Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel which is what I planned to carry in the first place.

While you probably experienced a problem with ammo, I wonder just what part ammo played in my situation. This was all factory ammo but we have seen 38 Short and 357 magnum rounds in the middle of our 50 round boxes of Winchester 38 Spec. RNL in sealed cases out of our armory.