Ruger LCP/Kel-Tec PF-9 Experience w/Both anybody?

[Guest IzzyIsaac]

Thinking of getting my girl one of the two for v-day. She is about a 100 lbs and doesn't really care for much recoil. Has anybody shot BOTH of them to compare the difference in which one is more pleasant to shoot?

She likes the Ruger simply because she can get it PINK:doh:but that is not a deciding factor. We want one that she will be more comfortable shooting.

Thanks

[RoDan]

PF9 is going to be more comfortable I'd think. She will most be able to get her entire hand comfortably on the grip, where as with the p3at she probably wont. The 380 is pretty snappy in those little pistols, but the 9 is of course snappy in the light weight pf9. The PF9 comes with the base plate pinky extension as well which would help. Another reason to go with the pf9 is the 9mm cartridge of course, and it being larger it is easier for most to manipulate the whole gun...but since she weighs 100lbs the p3at may fit her like a glove. My father has a pf9 and it is almost too small for my hand, so I'd think there would be plenty of real estate there for smaller hands.

The best advice I can give you is to have her look at them, hold them and see which one she prefers. As far as recoil, I think the p3at will feel like it has more simply because it is so much smaller. Though one thing I have found with firearms in general is that different people are sensitive to different types of recoil. Snappy vs. push or punch.

[Guest IzzyIsaac]

Yeah, I have shot the P3AT and LCP and I feel they are way snappy! Of course, I really only have my Kimber to compare them too, so not really fair. The thing is, she will only carry if it's light, she don't want a heavy 1911 or anything 'big' she says. That is the reason I have came down to the LCP and PF-9, just didn't know anything about the 9 besides it being a really light 9

[cybernorris]

I miss my LCP. I never had a problem with it. I did put a couple of rounds through the Keltec and it seemed to pop a little harder. It had been purchased for a wife... and I saw multiple limp wrist eject failures on it while we were both at the range.

The fact that the LCP will lock the slide back is of functional importance to me.

[lowbud]

I'm thinking the pf9 is the lightest 9mm out there right now. I had one.. worked great. I just didn't like it.

Is it me or does anyone else think the reciever is ugly as hell. It didn't even feel good in the hand to me.

[jeremy155rr]

apples to oranges..the pf9 which i carry everywhere i dont have my g19 is not fun to shoot. no offense to female shooters, i'll compare to my wife. she is inexperienced with firearms, doesnt shoot much at all. she can shoot the glock all day, but won't go near the pf9. way too snappy. never fired a lcp myself, i would imagine it being more user friendly.

[mikegideon]

You may want to look at the walther PK380 if you can deal with the size. Everybody says it's a soft shooter, and the slide is real easy to rack. If she doesn't like recoil, she probably won't like either of the KT's

[nolo]

What about a Sig 232 or a Bersa .380? Both are great firearms and have less recoil. The Bersa is in the same price range as the two you mentioned. I have never been a fan of the Kel-tec. I own a Ruger LCP and my wife hates to shoot it, and is very inaccurate with it due to the sight picture.

[oldogy]

I carry the PF9, like it a lot. I find it very easy to conceal so I carry it. Can not say anything for the LCP but I just got the wife an LCR. She has a Smith J frame air weight and did not like the recoil of that. She likes the LCR better than the J frame, nicer trigger and better grips, less perceptive recoil, still easy to conceal. She hates my PF9 and would have trouble racking the slide. Keep in mind that none of these mouse guns are actually fun to shoot, not built as a toy but as a tool.

oldogy

[Guest 1shot]

Small semi-auto's and small petite novice women do not go together. They will limp wrist them much of the time and cause a jam and that will get them killed. I would suggest you get a small frame revolver in 38 special and a bunch of target wad-cutter ammo and take her to the range and practice, practice, practice. Until she can REALLY handle the weapon. Please understand that carrying a gun is not a fashion statement. It is to save your life. When people really understand that then they take things more seriously and practice and become competent with the weapon that can save their life. I had the same situation with my wife. She is petite and to quote her "I don't want a big heavy gun". I already had a Rossi 38 2" barrel with the Pachmayr compact grips on it. I started her out shooting very light loaded Hollow base wad-cutters and when she got to handling those very well I began to bump the powder charge up using 158 SWC's until I got her to handling full house loads.

I also had to get her to understand that you have to change the way you dress to carry a gun. You can't wear those tight fitting "fashion statement" clothing and carry a gun on your person. When she wants to wear this type of clothing she now carries her gun in a pocketbook that we specially modified that has a long strap that she wears bandoleer style and it has a center pocket with a zipper closure that I sewed a holster into the pocket. ONLY THE PISTOL GOES IN THIS POCKET. She can get to her gun very quickly with only one hand. It just takes a little reality thinking and some practice to be able to carry and shoot a REAL self-defense handgun. I help teach the handgun carry permit classes and I spend a section in the class teaching these very things both to men and women and demonstrate how easy it is to make a semi-auto jam.

Edited January 22, 2010 by 1shot

[Raoul]

I've got a buddy with the LCP. I refuse to shoot it. Uncomfortable to shoot and not particularly accurate past 5 yards.

[tntnixon]

The latest American Rifleman, did an extensive article on all these .380 pocket guns and the results, while not surprising to those of us that have actually shot these guns, was relatively surpising coming from the NRA. They found that all, but the Rohrbaugh, were especially finicky and required extensive breaking in periods before thay were ready for action due to multiple failures to feed and eject. Couple this with the difficulty in finding ammo to break the weapons in with and the discomfort of actually shooting these things, they are impractical at best even though they are popular (I own a P3AT).

I was shocked that the NRA published this article. They usually rubber stamp every POS gun that goes on the market because they rely so heavily on the donations from the weapon producers. +1000 to the NRA on this article. They finally got some cajones.

[Guest Ae-35]

The latest American Rifleman, did an extensive article on all these .380 pocket guns and the results, while not surprising to those of us that have actually shot these guns, was relatively surprising coming from the NRA. They found that all, but the Rohrbaugh, were especially finicky and required extensive breaking in periods before they were ready for action due to multiple failures to feed and eject. Couple this with the difficulty in finding ammo to break the weapons in with and the discomfort of actually shooting these things, they are impractical at best even though they are popular (I own a P3AT).

I was shocked that the NRA published this article. They usually rubber stamp every POS gun that goes on the market because they rely so heavily on the donations from the weapon producers. +1000 to the NRA on this article. They finally got some cajoles.

+ 1, you know they'll get a lot of flack from the gun companies, but the truth needs to be told before someone tries to use those little pistols , and gets killed !!! Now if they would do that a lot more and tell consumers the truth about some of the real crap that's being sold! they're not guns rags that have to have gun companies money to survive, it's our NRA and they need to be truthful about the guns on the market !!! Edited January 22, 2010 by Ae-35

[mikegideon]

I have an LCP, and I guess it has its place. It's easy to hide, no matter what you're wearing.

On the original topic... I took my girlfriend to Specialty Arms last week specifically to look at the PK380, 'cause it's a good girl gun. The guy behind the counter steered her toward a revolver, and I agree. We all settled on a Smith snubby with a steel frame, chambered in .357 (not so she could shoot magnum loads). Simple, manageable recoil, concealable.

In the end, she decided she didn't want a gun at all, so I bought me a 1911. Life can be hard sometimes :-)

[tnfan]

I have had an LCP since early fall of last year. My experience is the same as stated in the American Rifleman article.

I have found it is very particular as to the brand of ammo. Before one starts carrying this weapon on a regular basis be sure you know the ammo is compatible. Or else you might find yourself in a compromising situation with a FTF or FTE.

This is IMHO not a range weapon. It is not for me a very comfortable weapon to fire. About 50 rounds of firing and I am ready to put it down.

As also stated above, I find it is only reasonably accurate up to 12 to 15 feet. Sights are too small so it becomes more of a point and shoot weapon. I pretty much practice shooting one handed without sighting.

For those times when I need deep concealment, the LCP works for me. However, this is not my everyday carry weapon. I usually carry a sig P232 or P229 depending on the situation. I have pants with deeper pockets and find that the P232 with a Mika pocket holster works just great for me.

[JAB]

Depending upon how you feel about the .32acp as an SD round, you might also consider a KelTec P32. It is pretty much the same size as the P3AT (and the LCP, which is basically Ruger's rip-off of the P3AT.) I haven't fired one but often wish I had opted for a P32 instead of the P3AT that I bought. The P32 holds one more round in the mag, probably has slightly less recoil and is the design that the P3AT was based on, meaning that the P32 has been around slightly longer. Many feel that the P32 is more reliable than the P3AT as even the .380 cartridge is still kind of 'pushing the envelope' for such a small, lightweight pistol in a locked-breech design.

The big issue with the P32, apparently, is the possibility of rimlock when using some hollow point ammunition. KelTec sells a 'rimlock kit' that modifies magazines to prevent this or you could simply do a modification, yourself (the Flyer Wire mod is one such modification.) Of course, some people feel that you should use FMJ for defense in such a small caliber, anyway (arguing that the increase in size of such a small round from expansion will be almost negligible, overpenetration is unlikely and adequate penetration is more important.)

Another advantage is that, with the current state of things, .32acp ammo seems to be much more readily available than .380. Heck, for a while some of the local Walmart locations had WWB .32acp in stock even when the 9mm shelves had nothing but dust on them.

Edited January 22, 2010 by JAB

[RoDan]

If you want to deviate from your 2 original choices, a S&W 642 or similar would be awesome for her.

[Raoul]

The latest American Rifleman, did an extensive article on all these .380 pocket guns and the results, while not surprising to those of us that have actually shot these guns, was relatively surpising coming from the NRA. They found that all, but the Rohrbaugh, were especially finicky and required extensive breaking in periods before thay were ready for action due to multiple failures to feed and eject. Couple this with the difficulty in finding ammo to break the weapons in with and the discomfort of actually shooting these things, they are impractical at best even though they are popular (I own a P3AT).

I was shocked that the NRA published this article. They usually rubber stamp every POS gun that goes on the market because they rely so heavily on the donations from the weapon producers. +1000 to the NRA on this article. They finally got some cajones.

Good post.

[jeremy155rr]

The latest American Rifleman, did an extensive article on all these .380 pocket guns and the results, while not surprising to those of us that have actually shot these guns, was relatively surpising coming from the NRA. They found that all, but the Rohrbaugh, were especially finicky and required extensive breaking in periods before thay were ready for action due to multiple failures to feed and eject. Couple this with the difficulty in finding ammo to break the weapons in with and the discomfort of actually shooting these things, they are impractical at best even though they are popular (I own a P3AT).

I was shocked that the NRA published this article. They usually rubber stamp every POS gun that goes on the market because they rely so heavily on the donations from the weapon producers. +1000 to the NRA on this article. They finally got some cajones.

I think this is the norm with those guns, however mine has performed flawlessly (pf9), never had a ftf/fte with umc, wwb, and speer gold dots. that being said i would recommend a smallish revolver and being a guy that would want to shoot my wifes gun on a regular basis i'd get something that was +p rated or could shoot .357 if I wanted.

[Guest trigem]

They both are going to cause her pain!!!

Also tried the Ruger LCR, Ouch!!!!!!! That one hurt me:p

I had both and the wife hated them for that reason!

I ended up getting her a XD9 Sub Compact, she can put a 150 rounds down range with out a whimper:koolaid:

[blahX3]

Have you considered the Taurus "Slim 9" model PT709?

Edited January 23, 2010 by blahX3
:)

[Guest IzzyIsaac]

Have you considered the Taurus "Slim 9" model PT709?

No, not really. Might have to go check one out. What are the size comparisons between the Taurus and the SubCompact XD9 you think?

The Taurus looks a little bigger than we're looking for, that's why i ask

[Hoghead]

I've got both and carry both (seldom together). I'm not going to recommend either for a lady that doesn't like recoil, actually I wouldn't recommend them any woman that will not practice with it a lot. I have let a few women that could shoot, fire my PF-9 and if you don't really hold on to it you will have a FTE. I recommend a Smith 442/642 or the LCR. She might not like shooting them much at the range, but they won't jam in a life or death situation.

[Hoghead]

Oh and the LCP is worse than the PF-9. Sorry I just realized I didn't really answer your question. PM in bound

[Patton]

Depending upon how you feel about the .32acp as an SD round, you might also consider a KelTec P32. It is pretty much the same size as the P3AT (and the LCP, which is basically Ruger's rip-off of the P3AT.) I haven't fired one but often wish I had opted for a P32 instead of the P3AT that I bought. The P32 holds one more round in the mag, probably has slightly less recoil and is the design that the P3AT was based on, meaning that the P32 has been around slightly longer. Many feel that the P32 is more reliable than the P3AT as even the .380 cartridge is still kind of 'pushing the envelope' for such a small, lightweight pistol in a locked-breech design.

The big issue with the P32, apparently, is the possibility of rimlock when using some hollow point ammunition. KelTec sells a 'rimlock kit' that modifies magazines to prevent this or you could simply do a modification, yourself (the Flyer Wire mod is one such modification.) Of course, some people feel that you should use FMJ for defense in such a small caliber, anyway (arguing that the increase in size of such a small round from expansion will be almost negligible, overpenetration is unlikely and adequate penetration is more important.)

Another advantage is that, with the current state of things, .32acp ammo seems to be much more readily available than .380. Heck, for a while some of the local Walmart locations had WWB .32acp in stock even when the 9mm shelves had nothing but dust on them.

I had a P-32 and chose it over the 380 version for many of the same reasons you mentioned. Also the P-32 has the optional 10rd magazine that makes it a full grip-Very very very nice. It was not too hard to find the 32 ammo either.