Wife's First Trip to the Range

[Guest Drewsett]

So the wife and I finally made it up to Guns and Leather for the first time. Let me say this...those guys are great! I came in and was helped immediately. We rented a Taurus 24/7 9mm and took our MKII.

I fired the MKII first, put 20 rounds through it, and then loaded the mags again and handed it to her. I talked her through the proper firing technique, fixed her hands so she would have a proper grip, and stood directly behind her to watch her. She did pretty well for her first time. She aimed for the body on the first mag and kept almost everything inside the 8 ring, about a 4-5in group slightly high and to the right, which I guess is pretty good because that would be right about where the BG's heart would be!

I loaded up the Taurus next and fired two mags off pretty quickly, she was a little put off by watching how much greater the recoil was. I reloaded it and handed it to her. I talked her through what she should do again, and she really didn't want to shoot it initially. I thought I was going to have to talk her into doing it, but she suprised me and pulled the trigger right away! She said the recoil was plenty managable (I did remind her that she did great firing our 12ga for the first time and it is much more recoil). She was less accurate with the 9mm, but that was to be expected as the MKII is a great target gun.

I spent a great deal of the afternoon just reloading mags for her for the MKII, it is "her" gun now! I'm very excited that my quite liberal wife is well on her way to becoming an avid shooter.

She wants to take her HCP class with me, but she isn't convinced she will carry. I am encouraging her to consider it, but she is saying that if she does, that she wants to carry in her purse. I am trying to dissuade her from that, as of course if a BG gets her purse he has her gun. She is concerned that being a woman (and a relatively attractive one I might add) her manner of dress would not really allow her to conceal on her body. I have put up the idea of getting one of the little pocket guns for her like a Keltec or something similar, but she is concerned that with the smaller, lighter weapon, she will have more recoil than she is comfortable with.

Anywho, anyone with input on options for her for concealable firearms that won't have too much recoil for her since she has smaller hands would be greatly appreciated.

[Rightwinger]

My wife shot quite a few pistols before she settled on an XD9 sub compact. The 40 S&Ws were all to snappy and the 442 revolver was to hard for her to get a decent trigger pull on plus she still said 38 Special had to much recoil.

We also tried a Bersa .380 which she shot easily, once someone else racked the first round in. I figured she would never be able to reduce a stoppage with that one.

After shooting my brothers XD she went right out and bought her own. Loves it. Can operate the slide with ease and shoots rapid fire with no issue.

Try one of those with her.

[PackinMama]

The recoil of a self defense carry weapon shouldn't be a HUGE factor for anyone if they just plan on using the gun for self defense (vs. going to the range and shooting for fun).

A very small & light gun would be much easier for her to conceal, and it would also help to get her to carry on her person rather than in her purse.

In your situation, with everything you've told us about your wife, I would recommend a Kel-Tec P3-AT (.380) or a P-32 (.32). Both of those are good, reliable guns that are super small and light. As far as recoil goes with either model, I don't think she'd particularly enjoy shooting a whole box of 50 at the range....but believe me, if she ever had to use it for self defense, her pumping adrenaline would make the recoil completely unnoticable.

If the recoil really bothers her that much with the .380 or .32, which it really shouldn't, she could always go with a .22 mag like a Beretta Bobcat. A .22 mag in the pocket is much better than a .45 in the purse anyday!

If she could go with something a little bit larger, I'd go with the Kel-Tec PF-9 (9mm). It's the lightest and thinnest 9mm made today.

Basically, I'd get her the largest caliber that she can and will carry on her person. If that's a .22 mag, so be it. If that's a .32 or .380, all the better. If it's a 9mm, thats awesome! A gun in the purse might help if you have time to get to it......but more often than not, it's useless in a real world self defense scenario.

Good luck! Btw, they make pink Kel Tec P3-AT's now!

[Guest Drewsett]

She picked up a Bersa once and really liked the way it felt, but I worry that it would be too large for her to conceal on her body, so we would be looking at her putting it in her purse, which I would prefer she not do. I guess it's better than her not carrying at all though...

I guess I need to find someplace that has some keltecs and other pocket pistols available for rent for her to try out.

[PackinMama]

I think she'd probably love the Kel Tecs....especially if she has small hands. From what I hear, they have a perfect grip and trigger reach for females with small hands. The Ruger LCP is similar to the Kel Tec P3-AT.

Here's a pic of a pink Ruger LCP:

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4200/lcpy.jpg

Edited January 22, 2010 by PackinMama
corrected info

[Guest tnmx]

I like the Ruger LCP. If your wife does not carry it then it fits in your pocket. For resale value I would stick with the Black model.

[PackinMama]

I like the Ruger LCP too. I really forgot to mention it in my first post. It's basically the same as the Kel Tec P3-AT, just a little nicer fit and finish.

I mentioned the pink one kind of in jest. It could appeal to some ladies I guess.....but I personally would never own a pink gun.

Edited January 22, 2010 by PackinMama

[Guest Drewsett]

I like the Ruger LCP too. I really forgot to mention it in my first post. It's basically the same as the Kel Tec P3-AT, just a little nicer fit and finish.

I mentioned the pink one kind of in jest. It could appeal to some ladies I guess.....but I personally would never own a pink gun.

My wife REALLY likes the Walther P22 in pink with the S/S slide, and that will probably be a Xmas/Bday gift for her on down the road...carry pistol definitely comes first.

[monkeylizard]

I have a Walther P22 3" (in black). Both my wife and I like to shoot it. And I really like that what she learns on the P22 directly translates to larger handguns. It makes my XD less intimidating to her (though she's still not comfortable witth that one). I bought the P22 for her, but I find that I'll shoot 2 to 3 times as much ammo with it than with my .40. Easy and cheap to load and shoot.

If you go for the P22, be sure to get high-velocity ammo. CCI Mini-Mags seem to work the best. Wally World has them for about $6.50/100. I've read that after a few thousand rounds the main spring will loosen up a bit and you can run cheaper ammo like Wally's Federal packs at $1.50/50, but it still has to be high velocity. Another trick is to check the markings on the magazine. You want one with the "B" model mags. This would indicate a newer manufacturing that has corrected a lot of earlier flaws. There's a way to tell the gun manufacture year by the serial#, but I can't recall what it is. I think "AK" means 2009.

[wipfel]

i've gone through the exact process with my wife. she's not willing to adjust much to conceal carry and has to wear business clothes at work, so there aren't many options.

of all the guns we've looked at, the kahr pm9 seems to fit the bill the best. she doesn't want a ruger lcp or a revolver, so the easiest options were ruled out.

if you can get her to start carrying daily, please let me know how so i can try it on my wife.

[safeandsecure]

Similar with my wife. She decided on a Taurus 709 Slim, and, thanks to PackinMama, a belly band for concealed carry. Days or times when the Slim is too large, she still is toting a Beretta 21A in .22LR. The Beretta pop-up eliminates the need to rack the slide to chamber a round, and with the Taurus, she is able to chamber a round; it was about the only thing she tried where she could do that. She's still a better shot with the .22, but I'm pleased and proud to say that we've been spending time weekly on gun handling and target practice. She's gettin' better every trip.

And I'll agree that a .22 that's with you is better than anything else that's left behind.

[peejman]

All this sounds similar to my wife. I started her with my MKI (bull barrel, target grips) and she liked it. I'll brag and say she shot a 3" group at 7yds. Then I let her shoot my PT145 (probably a mistake). The HUGE difference in recoil shocked her (it nearly jumped out of her hand on the first shot), though I'll give her high marks for continuing and emptying the mag. On a later range trip, she was hesitant to shoot my P85, but liked it once she tried it. She hasn't really decided on a pistol for herself, but is leaning toward an XD9sc.

Regarding the comments about difficulty racking the slide... you're not doing it right. The trick is to hold the slide stationary with (at least) the last 3 fingers of the left (non-shooting) hand and drive the gun forward hard and fast under it. It won't work if she does it slowly... it's got to be a fast, aggressive motion.

Once I convinced my wife that she wouldn't hurt the gun and made a few other comments to get her fired up, she racked the slide on my PT145 with ease. At which point she said... "oh, that was easy."

Cornered Cat - Rack the Slide

Edited April 7, 2010 by peejman

[Trekbike]

My wife started out with a S&W 642 as her first carry gun but now also has a Ruger LCP for times she needs something more concealable. You can hid a LCP just about anywhere.

Thankfully my wife never felt like purse carry was an option, so I didn't have to talk her out of it.

[PackinMama]

Similar with my wife. She decided on a Taurus 709 Slim, and, thanks to PackinMama, a belly band for concealed carry. Days or times when the Slim is too large, she still is toting a Beretta 21A in .22LR. The Beretta pop-up eliminates the need to rack the slide to chamber a round, and with the Taurus, she is able to chamber a round; it was about the only thing she tried where she could do that. She's still a better shot with the .22, but I'm pleased and proud to say that we've been spending time weekly on gun handling and target practice. She's gettin' better every trip.

And I'll agree that a .22 that's with you is better than anything else that's left behind.

I'm soooooo glad to hear that she's carrying on her vs. in her purse!!! That's awesome!!! Tell her I said "Good Job!"

[safeandsecure]

I'm soooooo glad to hear that she's carrying on her vs. in her purse!!! That's awesome!!! Tell her I said "Good Job!"

Done ... I asked her to read your posts on purse carry, and that pretty much nixed it for her. We tried a couple of IWB holsters, but she just wasn't comfortable there. Soooo .... .... we ended up with an OWB (G&G Belt Slide) and a belly band, thanks to your encouragement. She's been pretty faithful to have one or the other in use ever since -- mainly the belly band, since the weather's warmed up. She claims it's comfortable, and it does a really good job of concealment, even in her more fitted tops. Thanks again, Mama

[Derek]

The LCP is awesome. My GF really likes the Colt Mustang and SIG P238. But Id definitely go for an LCP...IMHO the trigger felt a bit better on it compared to the kel tecs

[DavidM]

I HAD an LCP. Bought it on a Saturday from nolo and the wife confiscated it that afternoon. I'm proud of her for carrying, though. She keeps it on her in a pocket holster. May have to go get me one of those.

[Guest 1817ak47]

bought minea bersa 9mm pro. I really lioke it, I hate that i will have to give it up and am curious to try it beside my xd9 4" service model. I plan to alternate 1 round xd, bersa, xd, bersa, I think I will likethe bersa better. got it for 370 OTD new w/2 17 rnd mags. I will give a report after a range visit.

[RedSuinit]

My wife has shot quite a few things, from rifles, to shotguns, to a .44 magnum. I must admit, she handled the magnum quite well for her first time shooting a handgun. I must admit, I am lucky that my wife isn't shy about firearms.

[Guest IzzyIsaac]

I pulled the 'if you want a small dog, start asking for a horse' move kinda on my girl a few weeks ago. I had her shoot my kimber(which she thought was too heavy to even hold up long) after teaching her about gun safety all these months, then the next week let her get a feel of a FN9 and a SR9. Let's just say she REALLY likes the 9mm's now compared to. I can guarantee she would think they were 'too much recoil' if i had started with them first. She actually shot the SR9 really really well and could actually rack the slide. I still want to get her to feel on some more sub 9's like the G26, M&P, XD, etc. before we purchase.

[Guest buttonhook]

if they like the p22 try to step them up to the pk380 since it will feel the same in their hands for what it is worth my wife really like my PPS

Edited July 5, 2010 by buttonhook

[JAB]

My wife took her HCP class a few months ago (I've had mine for about two years, now) but hasn't really carried, yet. She passed the class with a snubnosed .357 loaded with .38 Special ammo but that gun is too bulky/heavy for her to carry comfortably.

She can't handle the recoil of my Kel Tec P3AT but tried out my mom's recently purchased P32 (I talked my mom into getting her HCP earlier this year, too) and handled it just fine. My wife has trouble racking the slide on most semiautos but was able to do so on the P32, albeit with some difficulty. She said that she thinks that with some practice she'd be able to master it and I believe that she could. She also tried it out in a leather IWB holster that I made for another of mom's pistols and said it felt good - and with her build it disappeared completely under just a t-shirt (but she isn't exactly a petite, skinny-minnie type.) It's looking like the next gun purchase in our house will be a P32 for her.

Owning a P3AT and having shot mom's P32, I'd have to say that the .32 has a good bit less felt recoil. It is also slightly lighter (6.6 ounces unloaded opposed to the P3AT at 8.3 ounces unloaded.) The loaded mags weigh the same (2.8 ounces) but the P32 mag holds one more round than the P3AT mag. The P32 is 5.1 inches long while the P3AT is 5.2 inches long. The P32 is .75" wide while the P3AT is .77" wide so the P32 is ever so slightly thinner and shorter. Both have a height of 3.5". Both have a fairly long, five pound trigger pull which helps make them safe for carry (neither has an external safety.) All of the height/weight info comes from the Kel Tec website. One other thing is that the P32 holds the slide open once the last round is fired while the P3AT does not (presumably to shave weight off of the larger caliber pistol.)

Some folks don't trust .32acp for self defense. Some don't even trust .380 for self defense. Me, I don't think any of us are unarmed with either.

As for the Elsie Pea (LCP) I haven't fired one. They'd probably be just about as good as a P3AT as (although they deny it) Ruger basically ripped off the entire design from Kel Tec.

Beretta also makes/made a couple of pocket pistols in .32 which have 'tip-up' barrels. You literally tip up the front of the barrel and insert the first round rather than having to rack a slide.

My wife isn't a 'pink pistol' kind of girl (she has said so, herself) and will probably get one of the more 'standard' models (they make models with black/blued slides and some with hard cromed slides with a few, different colors for the polymer grips.) My mom, being a little more 'in' to pretty guns, got the 'Lady .32' model - which is a factory model sold through only one distributor if my understanding is correct. Mom's pretty much looks like this (the pic is from the 'Net, this one isn't mom's) :

Edited July 7, 2010 by JAB

[Guest Drewsett]

I didn't realize this thread was still going. So I guess an update from me is in order.

The wife is now on her way to becoming an avid shooter. She "let" me become a member at the G&L range and now frequently asks me "When are we going to the range?".

I am having some difficulty helping her tighten up her groups...I try to be patient, but she takes umbrage quite easily so it makes giving advice rather difficult. I'd love to get her some one on one instruction time (because it's not like the instructor will have to sleep on the couch if he or she makes her mad), but as a 25-year-old college student/server with a mortgage, funds are kind of limited, especially in the summertime when the restaurant biz slows down.

We still haven't gotten our HCP's yet (once again, limited funds), but she still is planning on doing purse carry (I just can't convince her to carry it on her body), I guess a gun in the purse is better than no gun at all. I do have nightmares about a BG wrestling her purse away from her while she's attempting to get her gun out of it and something getting caught on the trigger and the gun discharging in a bad direction. I guess I'll just have to deal or I'll end up on the couch again.

This community has been extremely helpful to us both along the way, so a collective "Thank You" is in order.