Any Gearheads? Clutch engagement point too low?

[SavageSig]

Sometime during my drive home, my shifts became really hard. I think it's because my clutch isn't fully disengaging. I'm pressing the pedal all the way down to the floorboard, and the revs drop like they're supposed to, but when I try to actually move the shifter into another gear, the synchros or whatever don't want to let it. When the engine is off, the shifter is smooth as butter.

My engagement point has been drifting lower for a while now, but it's reached the point where it feels like I'm not fully disengaging, even with the pedal all the way down. I'm pretty sure my clutch isn't worn, as it still grabs nicely and it's never slipped on me once, not even when flooring it in 4th gear at 15 mph. Is there anything specific I can do, or get a shop to do for me? Maybe flush some hydraulic system? Is it easy to adjust the clutch pedal to make the engagement point higher?

[dats82]

Check the hydrolic level for the clutch. Should be a reservoir on the firewall. Make sure you are not checking the brake fluid. I do not mean to insult you, but I do not know how much you know. If the level is low, add fluid to it. You can just use brake fluid. You may need to bleed the system as well if the fluid is indeed low. It is basically the same procedure as bleeding brake, but you will need another person if you do it the old fashion way without the little bleeder tool thing, whatever that is called. I do not know about adjusting hydrolic clutches once they are installed, but I do not think you have to do that. I never have.

[Guest tnmale46]

^^ what he said also clutch slave cylinder or clutch master cylinder may be going south.

[turkeydad]

Sounds like a slave cylinder as well. . .may be able to add some fluid for a while. . .but will get worse also make sure the bladder in the reservoir makes a good seal and dont over tighten the cap. .

No adj in hydrolic clutches. . .there is an adj is in old spring style but if you vehicle is under 30 years its old its most likely hydralic

Edited January 15, 2010 by turkeydad
typo

[Guest rj8806]

Sometime during my drive home, my shifts became really hard. I think it's because my clutch isn't fully disengaging. I'm pressing the pedal all the way down to the floorboard, and the revs drop like they're supposed to, but when I try to actually move the shifter into another gear, the synchros or whatever don't want to let it. When the engine is off, the shifter is smooth as butter.

My engagement point has been drifting lower for a while now, but it's reached the point where it feels like I'm not fully disengaging, even with the pedal all the way down. I'm pretty sure my clutch isn't worn, as it still grabs nicely and it's never slipped on me once, not even when flooring it in 4th gear at 15 mph. Is there anything specific I can do, or get a shop to do for me? Maybe flush some hydraulic system? Is it easy to adjust the clutch pedal to make the engagement point higher?

What kind of car is it? A hydraulic system is a sealed system in that it will never leak down or need fluid unless there is a leak somewhere. If there is a leak, even a small one, air will be sucked into the system and that will cause a "funky" pedal. A hydraulic system only moves the same fluid, back and forth. Once air is introduced into system, you will have a bad pedal feel as air does not compress.

I'd suggest checking the fluid level in the reservoir and if it is low, find the leak, fix the leak and refill the system.

I work with 5 and 6 speed transmissions and transmission systems all day long (tech support). We also sell hydraulic clutch actuators along with clutch kits. Hydraulics are very basic in principle and air is about the only thing that messes them up.

[MCSCOTT]

What kind of car is it? A hydraulic system is a sealed system in that it will never leak down or need fluid unless there is a leak somewhere. If there is a leak, even a small one, air will be sucked into the system and that will cause a "funky" pedal. A hydraulic system only moves the same fluid, back and forth. Once air is introduced into system, you will have a bad pedal feel as air does not compress.

I'd suggest checking the fluid level in the reservoir and if it is low, find the leak, fix the leak and refill the system.

I work with 5 and 6 speed transmissions and transmission systems all day long (tech support). We also sell hydraulic clutch actuators along with clutch kits. Hydraulics are very basic in principle and air is about the only thing that messes them up.

X2. Would be more helpful to know what kinda vehicle this is, because if it's an older one that doesn't have a hydraulic clutch then you can adjust it some. If the fluid has leaked down, you definately need to find and fix the leak. If not, either the clutch master cylinder. If it were the slave cylinder the pedal would be soft instead of hard, however in some vehicles you have to buy both to replace it correctly.

Also.....

My engagement point has been drifting lower for a while now, but it's reached the point where it feels like I'm not fully disengaging, even with the pedal all the way down. I'm pretty sure my clutch isn't worn, as it still grabs nicely and it's never slipped on me once, not even when flooring it in 4th gear at 15 mph.

This statement, especially if it's an older vehicle that doesn't have a hydraulic clutch, makes me think you have indeed worn the clutch out, especially if you regularly floor it in 4th gear from 15mph.

[molonlabetn]

Sounds like a slave cylinder going... maybe the master cylinder. A signigicant drop in your clutch reservoir level would be an indication. Try topping it off and pumping the clutch a few times.

[SavageSig]

It's a '03 RSX 5-speed. I checked the fluid levels, and it's above the min but below the max line. I don't think any has leaked out, but I'll keep my eye on it.

Doing some research, the clutch master cylinders on these cars are notoriously weak.

How do I tell if it's slave vs. master cylinder? Would a flush help, or is that just a waste of money? Looks like I'll have to put that rifle on hold until I get this cleared up.

Would you guys not drive the car until it's fixed? I haven't heard any grinding, and I haven't noticed smoke or burning clutch or anything like that.

[MCSCOTT]

It's a '03 RSX 5-speed. I checked the fluid levels, and it's above the min but below the max line. I don't think any has leaked out, but I'll keep my eye on it.

Doing some research, the clutch master cylinders on these cars are notoriously weak.

How do I tell if it's slave vs. master cylinder? Would a flush help, or is that just a waste of money? Looks like I'll have to put that rifle on hold until I get this cleared up.

Would you guys not drive the car until it's fixed? I haven't heard any grinding, and I haven't noticed smoke or burning clutch or anything like that.

Like I mentioned in my post, most likely it's the master and not the slave. If it were the slave the pedal would be really soft. Flushing it wont really help any if one of the two are going bad. Personally I wouldn't drive it until it was fixed, but the worse case is you are going down the road when it goes out completely and can't get your car out of whatever gear it's in without shutting the engine off.

[SavageSig]

This statement, especially if it's an older vehicle that doesn't have a hydraulic clutch, makes me think you have indeed worn the clutch out, especially if you regularly floor it in 4th gear from 15mph.

That is not something I do regularly. I have heard that it is a quick and dirty test to see if your clutch is slipping.

[SavageSig]

Also, my clutch is rather soft now...I had that down to the clutch wearing, but maybe it's the slave too.

[Guest rj8806]

It's a '03 RSX 5-speed. I checked the fluid levels, and it's above the min but below the max line. I don't think any has leaked out, but I'll keep my eye on it.

Doing some research, the clutch master cylinders on these cars are notoriously weak.

How do I tell if it's slave vs. master cylinder? Would a flush help, or is that just a waste of money? Looks like I'll have to put that rifle on hold until I get this cleared up.

Would you guys not drive the car until it's fixed? I haven't heard any grinding, and I haven't noticed smoke or burning clutch or anything like that.

I'm not 100% on the '03 RSX but my guess is it is an external slave system, meaning there is likely a "slave" that is bolted to the side of the bell housing that pushes on a clutch fork, which in turn, pushes the throw out bearing into the fingers on the pressure plate and releases the clutch disc.

If the fluid level fine but you are not engaging/disengaging until the pedal is at the floor, then I suspect it is time for a new clutch. Flooring the gas in 4th gear while you're only going 15mph is hard on a clutch.

How many miles are on the clutch/car? Has the clutch ever been replaced? I don't believe there is any adjustment on the setup you have as the master cylinder is only going to push " X " volume of fluid down to the slave and there is no way to adjust that. Just because you don't smell burning clutch, doesn't mean it isn't worn out. I would have the clutch checked, unfortunately, the only way to do that is to pull the transmission.

[MCSCOTT]

Also, my clutch is rather soft now...I had that down to the clutch wearing, but maybe it's the slave too.

My bad, I read the first post wrong where you mentioned the shifts becoming hard. I think you mean it's hard to shift, and the pedal is soft, which means it would be the slave. However if this is the case then it could also be the clutch worn out. Your options are to either replace the slave and hope that's the problem, or pull the transmission to check the clutch before you buy anything so that you know you've bought the right part. Just know that if you go ahead and replace the slave cylinder that it could still turn out to be the clutch itself. Shouldn't be the master in this case though. This is all based on the slave being external, if it should happen to be internal you'll have to pull the transmission anyway.

[SavageSig]

Well, after doing some calling around, it seems like the dealer will actually be the cheapest route. 95 to diagnose, then if I get my work done there, they'll put that towards the labor costs. 199.95 in labor + 124.10 for the clutch master cylinder, 199.95 in labor + 68.00 for the slave cylinder. ~600 for the whole thing. If anyone knows of a cheaper but just as reliable place, let me know. I'm all ears.

It could be the clutch, but at this point, I'm betting it's the cylinders. Hoping, more like.

[SavageSig]

My bad, I read the first post wrong where you mentioned the shifts becoming hard. I think you mean it's hard to shift, and the pedal is soft, which means it would be the slave. However if this is the case then it could also be the clutch worn out. Your options are to either replace the slave and hope that's the problem, or pull the transmission to check the clutch before you buy anything so that you know you've bought the right part. Just know that if you go ahead and replace the slave cylinder that it could still turn out to be the clutch itself. Shouldn't be the master in this case though. This is all based on the slave being external, if it should happen to be internal you'll have to pull the transmission anyway.

So what symptoms would tell you that it's the master vs the slave cylinder?

[MCSCOTT]

Well, after doing some calling around, it seems like the dealer will actually be the cheapest route. 95 to diagnose, then if I get my work done there, they'll put that towards the labor costs. 199.95 in labor + 124.10 for the clutch master cylinder, 199.95 in labor + 68.00 for the slave cylinder. ~600 for the whole thing. If anyone knows of a cheaper but just as reliable place, let me know. I'm all ears.

It could be the clutch, but at this point, I'm betting it's the cylinders. Hoping, more like.

If they diagnose it for $95 and take it off if you have the work done, you're only looking at around $200 either way most likely unless you just want to have it all done. To me that doesn't sound bad, and it keeps you from wasting money on replacing parts that end up not being what the problem was.

[MCSCOTT]

So what symptoms would tell you that it's the master vs the slave cylinder?

In most cases if it's the master, the clutch pedal is hard to push. That's why when you mentioned hard to shift, I was thinking you meant the clutch pedal was hard to push.

[Guest rj8806]

In most cases if it's the master, the clutch pedal is hard to push. That's why when you mentioned hard to shift, I was thinking you meant the clutch pedal was hard to push.

Actually when it comes to hydraulic clutches, if the master is bad you get a soft, spongy feeling pedal.

On a brake system, a bad brake master cylinder results in a hard pedal.

[SavageSig]

Very interesting. Soft and spongy describe my clutch pedal very well. The first half of the down stroke is effortless, then I start getting slight resistance, which builds progressively to the engagement point on the floor board. All of that resistance is spongier and softer than I'm used to feeling. Then the same in reverse when I let the clutch pedal go. Thanks for all the help fellas. Nobody can look at my car until Monday, so I'll just have to brave it out for the weekend. I think I'm going to use a local garage now: he just called me with a quote for 246 to replace the master cylinder, versus 324 at the dealership. He charges 45/30 min to diagnose, but I trust him to not run over on the bill. I've used him before, and he does pretty good work.

Hopefully I don't wreck my gears (quite possible, right?) or get stuck in a gear or something similarly horrible.

[MCSCOTT]

Actually when it comes to hydraulic clutches, if the master is bad you get a soft, spongy feeling pedal.

On a brake system, a bad brake master cylinder results in a hard pedal.

After thinking about it, you may possibly be right. If the slave were bad I would think it would be leaking, which the OP did mention that the fluid was a little low. However, on brakes, if there is a hard pedal it's the booster that's bad, and a soft pedal is the master cylinder, but we're not really talkin about brakes.

Basically without looking at it in person I don't think anyone can internet mechanic the situation. You're best bet if you aren't use to mechanic work would be to take it to the dealer since they apply the diagnosis cost to having the work done there.

[NuTcAsE]

If it is not leaking, and the fluid is low you're lookin at a clutch. The fluid level drops as the clutch wears, just like brakes.

[SavageSig]

Fluid isn't low. I checked, and it's below the max and above the min line.

[Guest RemedyCNC]

I have an '02 RSX with 170K miles. I would be surprised if you have had a failure already. I would make sure before I started throwing parts at it.

Have you been to Club RSX Message Board - Powered by vBulletin and done a search? There is a wealth of info on this site. You may have to be a member to search but it is free. Good luck.

[SavageSig]

I have an '02 RSX with 170K miles. I would be surprised if you have had a failure already. I would make sure before I started throwing parts at it.

Have you been to Club RSX Message Board - Powered by vBulletin and done a search? There is a wealth of info on this site. You may have to be a member to search but it is free. Good luck.

Thank you for the info, been a member since '03. I posted over there, and general opinion is that it might be the CMC. I'm going to get it diagnosed on Monday and see what's up.

Pretty good car, right? I've been really happy with mine.

[Guest RemedyCNC]

Yep. I bought mine as a "beater" and to help with fuel usage (other vehicle is a GMC crew cab 4X4). Got a used RSX-S and I love it. No troubles as of yet. Just gas and go. Gotta love it!

Good luck with the repair and let us know what the outcome is.