Guns-in-bars law hurts tourism, cities say

[waynesan]

January 14, 2010

Guns-in-bars law hurts tourism, cities say

Memphis, Nashville say rivals use it to win away conventions

By Nate Rau

THE TENNESSEANThe state's restaurant and bar owners have made no secret of their opposition to Tennessee's guns-in-bars law, saying the prospect of armed patrons, or a sign keeping guns out of an establishment, is bad for business.

Now, the leaders of the Nashville and Memphis Convention and Visitors Bureaus are saying the law has hurt local tourism efforts, claiming that other cities are using the guns-in-bars measure to lure visitors away from Tennessee.

"It's probably the single biggest issue people write and talk about when they're considering coming here," said Butch Spyridon, CEO of the Nashville Convention & Visitors Bureau.

"We had international press, and we have gotten letters from visitors who literally have canceled plans to visit."

What's more, Sypridon said competing cities have used the new guns law against Nashville in trying to attract conventions.

"As the economy (took a turn) other cities and hotels used a lot of different tactics, negative sales tactics," Spyridon said. "Without question some cities, some hotels, will utilize whatever tactics are at their disposal."

Kevin Kane, president of the Memphis visitors bureau, said it had experienced a similar response.

"Other cities have used it as ammunition against the state of Tennessee, namely Memphis and Nashville, talking about how unsafe it is," Kane said.

Spyridon and Kane declined to point to specific examples, and convention bureaus from other cities, including rivals areas such as Portland, Ore., and Indianapolis, refused to comment about the state's guns-in-bars law.

The law allowed restaurant owners to ban guns on their premises by posting a sign, but Preston Lam of Memphis-based River City Management said that option doesn't sit well with the tourism industry, either. River City Management owns several establishments on Beale Street in Memphis, where visitors must pass through a security checkpoint and a wand-search for firearms.

"You're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. You put the sign on the door, but somebody coming in says, 'Gosh, is it dangerous around here?'

"You want to prevent the gun from coming in, but that also has a negative message that you send to a patron who is innocently walking up and down the street."

A poll of registered voters commissioned by the state's tourism industry last year showed broad opposition to allowing guns in places where alcohol is served.

The law has been put on hold after a Nashville judge ruled in November that it is unconstitutionally vague. But that move prompted some lawmakers to vow to revise the measure in this year's legislative session.

State Sen. Doug Jackson, the Dickson Democrat who co-sponsored the bill that passed last year, has prepared legislation he says will address Davidson County Chancellor Claudia Bonnyman's concerns about the law's vagueness.

But if the issue returns, Nashville Rep. Gary Odom, leader of the House Democratic Caucus, said he wants state tourism leaders to describe the impact it has had on the industry for state lawmakers.

Odom supported the measure last year but now believes that one aspect overlooked by the legislature was how it might impact tourism.

"I want to hear from the convention and visitors as to whether this hurt their business," Odom said.

Media get blame

Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey, a Blountville Republican who is running for governor, said he supported addressing the issue again if necessary. The state attorney general has filed a notice to appeal Bonnyman's ruling, and Ramsey said he was unsure if the legislature would address the issue before or after a legal challenge.

Ramsey said the media deserved blame for its coverage of the issue.

"This has been somewhat misrepresented in the press because everyone I've talked to seems to think what the press has portrayed is the average person can strap on a pistol and walk into a restaurant."

Guns-in-bars law hurts tourism, cities say | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

[GKar]

Wonder if, in their recounting of those supposed letters, they have accurately realized that Memphis has at least one from me informing them that I was cancelling travel plans to Memphis because of their actions to PROHIBIT carry in certain downtown areas? Nah, I didn't think so....

[Mike.357]

if guns in bars was put on a ballot to be decided by voters it would get shot down by incredible numbers.

Good thing they didn't do that, yanno.

[Daniel]

You are such a negative nancy.

[trblmkr13]

I know I feel safer in downtown Nashville knowing only criminals have guns:rolleyes:

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yeh, look at the tourism right across the street from the Tennesseean on a Saturday

night. That "On the Run" and McCraps. I go through there to work, occasionally. They

used to have armed security. I think they just pray on having Metro cops thirsty for their lukewarm coffee to guard the area now. Wonder how many HCP holders hang out

there. And "On the Run/Go/Tiger Mart/whatever they call themselves" have a small

"No Weapons" sign at the door.

[DavidD]

It must be true since the Tennessean quoted it from old Butchy Boy....

[DWARREN123]

Prove it!

[Bigiron]

Well, if it keeps anti-gun tourists out of town, then it might be a good thang.

[Garufa]

Guns in establishments that serve alchohol having a negative impact on tourism is a load of .

[Guest HexHead]

Guns-in-bars law hurts tourism, cities say | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

First of all, if Spyridon is refusing to name anyone, that means he's just making this up. Secondly, with 36 other states allowing restaurant carry, including Indiana, I can't believe it's that big an issue. And thirdly, the opponents have only themselves to blame if it is true, for misrepresenting the true nature of the bill from the get go.

And Odom's a douche.

[VolunteerGuns]

Just like the Tennessean. 50 lines of liberal antigun leftist bull:poop:, and 1 or 2 lopsided half truth lines (so as to be fair and unbiased).

If they'd use a little less ink on that publication, I'd quit buying charmin, and pick up a subscription to wipe on.

[macville]

You can quote me on this. I believe that liberals are hurting tourism in our state. Now, I don't have any proof of my statement, but I'm a conservative and if liberals don't have to have any proof for their statements, then neither do I.

Matthew

[Guest 270win]

I don't think the legality of carrying in places that serve alcohol, including sporting events, has hurt California or New York tourism. I have never even heard it mentioned in newspapers. You can carry in schools in California with a license...again no mention or outcry from the bed wetters....oh well...some folks just have to cry sometimes. Keep it concealed!

[Guest Usagi]

First of all, if Spyridon is refusing to name anyone, that means he's just making this up. Secondly, with 36 other states allowing restaurant carry, including Indiana, I can't believe it's that big an issue. And thirdly, the opponents have only themselves to blame if it is true, for misrepresenting the true nature of the bill from the get go.

And Odom's a douche.

Right on.

Except there's 41 other states that allow restaurant carry - and two more on the docket this year. So, if we in TN get restaurant carry back, there will be 44 states that allow restaurant carry.

[JPS]

"Spyridon and Kane declined to point to specific examples"

Wonder why.....?

[ftncityfatboy]

here's the part that chaps me "Spyridon and Kane declined to point to specific examples, and convention bureaus from other cities, including rivals areas such as Portland, Ore., and Indianapolis, refused to comment about the state's guns-in-bars law." Declined to point to specific examples........so therefore without specific examples, they are just yaking and have no hard evidence. Again, when did the guns in restaurant bill become the guns in bars bill??? wasn't this a title the bias media came up with??? An establishment that is not a restaurant and sells beer only and is "just a bar" is off limits anyway, am I right???? So in order to legally carry, the establishement has to be a "restaurant", right??? Will the liberal, bias, and stupid media types ever get it right???

[eapking]

here's the part that chaps me "Spyridon and Kane declined to point to specific examples, and convention bureaus from other cities, including rivals areas such as Portland, Ore., and Indianapolis, refused to comment about the state's guns-in-bars law." Declined to point to specific examples........so therefore without specific examples, they are just yaking and have no hard evidence. Again, when did the guns in restaurant bill become the guns in bars bill??? wasn't this a title the bias media came up with??? An establishment that is not a restaurant and sells beer only and is "just a bar" is off limits anyway, am I right???? So in order to legally carry, the establishement has to be a "restaurant", right??? Will the liberal, bias, and stupid media types ever get it right???

They have no desire to get it right. They want to confuse the sheeple all they can. Distort the facts, mislead. Their whole anti argument is shallow and emotional. They know their arguments do not hold water. So, it's constant smoke and mirrors.

I hate to say it but we are way outnumbered. You have a large number of flat-out anti's and a ton of people on the fence, or have no clue. I used to be one of those people, with no clue about guns, and no care about the 2A. A true sheep. Then I woke up and smalled the coffee. I have joined what is unfortunately, a small group of people who in their hearts and minds know they are right. And they (we) are right. I just pray there are more of us out there than I suspect there are.

Rant over.

[Guest don_m]

... Secondly, with 36 other states allowing restaurant carry, including Indiana, I can't believe it's that big an issue.

Indiana you might expect. But for crying out loud folks, even MASSACHUSETTS allows restaurant carry and there's no movement in that bastion of liberalism and political correctness to change it. It's been a fact of life there for many years and -- as usual -- nothing that the Brady/VPC fear-mongers spew about has happened. It's not an issue.

Here in Pennsylvania, carry in restaurants and even bars has been legal for a couple of decades and it doesn't come up as a problem. "No guns" signs are very rare -- never seen one at a restaurant.

[ftncityfatboy]

They have no desire to get it right. They want to confuse the sheeple all they can. Distort the facts, mislead. Their whole anti argument is shallow and emotional. They know their arguments do not hold water. So, it's constant smoke and mirrors.

I hate to say it but we are way outnumbered. You have a large number of flat-out anti's and a ton of people on the fence, or have no clue. I used to be one of those people, with no clue about guns, and no care about the 2A. A true sheep. Then I woke up and smalled the coffee. I have joined what is unfortunately, a small group of people who in their hearts and minds know they are right. And they (we) are right. I just pray there are more of us out there than I suspect there are.

Rant over.

welcome to the darkside.....we have guns!!

[Tacblack]

Media is all anti-gun. Some more then others but even the good are anti-gun just look better cause the bad are really bad. Like the Tennessean paper, they are very anti-gun if you have ever dealt with them you would be shocked. Media reports what they think (not fact) and only if it gets ratings. Hence "Guns in Bars" on every station and in every paper.

[ngoeser59]

Yea um...... I think Randy Rayburn & Walt Baker made this one up all by themselves. 36 other States have a Restaurant Carry Law. I guess their Tourism is suffering soooooo badly also. I guess that's why they are all jumping at the chance to repeal that law (NOT)!! Total BS guys.

[macville]

Yea um...... I think Randy Rayburn & Walt Baker made this one up all by themselves. 36 other States have a Restaurant Carry Law. I guess their Tourism is suffering soooooo badly also. I guess that's why they are all jumping at the chance to repeal that law (NOT)!! Total BS guys.

Actually 40 states allow carry in at least restaurants, and you'd be surprised at how many not only allow carry anywhere alcohol is served but also allow drinking up to the legal driving limit. I will try and post my findings here once I get my info sorted out.

Matthew

[ngoeser59]

are you getting that number from opencarry.org? OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!

I wonder if this is indeed correct.

They still have TN listed as able to carry in Restaurants that serve alcohol but I checked with attorneys and they say it is indeed illegal to carry in these type places right now or you would be prosecuted in TN.

[macville]

are you getting that number from opencarry.org? OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!

I wonder if this is indeed correct.

They still have TN listed as able to carry in Restaurants that serve alcohol but I checked with attorneys and they say it is indeed illegal to carry in these type places right now or you would be prosecuted in TN.

Actually, I got it from handgunlaw.us. I thought MT was off-limits, but it's actually like VA and requires OC, so it's really 41 states. There was a law firm here in TN (I believe helped with the stupid lawsuit that overturned the law) that did the research also (Guns in Bars), but some of their info is wrong. Maine seems to make it illegal if a place is posted and serves alcohol (download this State Police: Licenses & Permits: Weapons Permits & Professional Licensing and search for "liquor" to find the law) and Montana says no CCW in places like alcohol, but says nothing about OCing. So really, the count should be 41 states.

The states that currently allow NO carry period where alcohol is served are: LA, NC, ND, NM, OH, SC, TN, IL, & WI.

Here are the states that have no state restrictions (although, a few states like CA don't have state preemption)

N o Restrictions

AL

CO

CA

CT

DE

HI

IA

ID

IN

MA

MD

ME

MN

NH

NJ

NY

NV

OR

PA

RI

UT

VI

VT

WV

And here are the states that you can drink while carrying up to the legal driving limit.

AL

CO

FL

ME

MI

NV

OR

PA

UT

VI

Amazing that there are *10* states that allow you drink while carrying and hasn't been ONE murder by someone with a permit out at a restaurant or bar! (at least not that the brady campaign has found.) Even states like AL, NV, & UT which are considered "redneck" (especially AL) haven't had any issues with backwater bars and shootings.

What the real issue here is is not that permit holders can be trusted, but why are all these places that really are "bars" being allowed stay in business when they DO NOT meet the requirements to have license (I guess many do meet their local beer board requirements though.)

Matthew