How do you stage your HD shotgun?

[JW3Percent]

"Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock." --some cheeseball in "The Rock"

I am in the market for a 12ga... but in all actuality, for HD, I think my new Sig will get the job done. No sense blowing holes in mah couch.

[Guest forrestcav]

figured i'd jump in on this. I have one teenager and one preteen and I know how I was at that age. I keep my chamber empty, safety off. My 4 dogs are my alarm. I have a mossberg maverick 88 and the racking of the slide can be deafening.

P.S. mine is loaded with 3" magnum 00 buckshot, 15 pellets per shell.

[tnhawk]

I count on my dalamtion or coonhounds to create a disturbance should it necessary. It's also unlikely an intruder would know the layout of my home in the dark. It will be an experience he will remember the rest of his (probably short)life!

[daddyo]

No kids in my house, so every weapon is condition 1.

[Guest 1817ak47]

I didn't read all the posts, my xd keepsa empty chamber, with 4 legged critters and the drinks often at night that impair ones judgements and responses, I don't wan't a chambered pistol under my pillew, I would like a nice headboard wtih a drawer or something like that.

now as a pre alarm of a intruder I keep our bedroom door locked to give me those extra seconds to wake up and respond to what happens heck many times I have been woken up cause cats knock or rattled something around, then I listen if I hear creaking in the wood floors that only the weight of a human could cause. that is not a pleasant situation to be in!

[Guest jackdm3]

Added benefit to the closing of doors (or so my Mom and Dad say) is that it's a fire wall. For me, I'd rather my alarm system tell about a fire long before smoke/fire got to my bedroom door.

[Guest smileyguy]

I keep the chamber empty safety off. I actually want an intruder(s) to here the racking off the slide and hopefully get out. I think it quite foolish to go into ninja mode and willfully seek a gun fight with an unknown number of possibly armed intruders.

Loosing the tactical advantage by racking. That is a foolish mentality. This ain't SWAT or military entering unknow circumstances. I'm racking then hollering that I'm armed & I'm calling the cops. If they come upstairs then I know they are drugged &/or crazy. When my bedroom door opens they will deservingly be blasted with 00 buck.

I consider myself pretty handy with all of my arms but going down my stairs to the first floor is a perfect setup for a L ambush. Again, it would be foolish to engage an unknown number of intruders.

[daddyo]

I keep the chamber empty safety off. I actually want an intruder(s) to here the racking off the slide and hopefully get out. I think it quite foolish to go into ninja mode and willfully seek a gun fight with an unknown number of possibly armed intruders.

Ninja mode? Willfully seeking a gunfight just because one chooses to defend their family? The vast majority of people successfully defending themselves by tactical advantage in a home invasion situation totally debunks your thinking.

Loosing the tactical advantage by racking. That is a foolish mentality. This ain't SWAT or military entering unknow circumstances. I'm racking then hollering that I'm armed & I'm calling the cops. If they come upstairs then I know they are drugged &/or crazy. When my bedroom door opens they will deservingly be blasted with 00 buck.

Foolish mentality? What's hard to understand that by making any noise that you just gave away your position? And to actually think that they will be scared away by the sound of you racking one into the chamber is simply foolhardy. That's like thinking that someone will be scared off at the sight of your weapon if you draw in SD. It may happen; it may not, but to count on it is what's foolish. Once again, tactical advantage has has been proven to be successful in multiple home invasion cases. Ask any firearms instructor who teaches home invasion SD tactics.

I consider myself pretty handy with all of my arms but going down my stairs to the first floor is a perfect setup for a L ambush. Again, it would be foolish to engage an unknown number of intruders.

This I agree with you on; make your stand and wait for them to come to you, but to give away your position is simply stupid.

But at the end of the day, I'm only responsible for me and mine.

Edited February 18, 2010 by DaddyO

[threeshot]

One item that has been missing in this thread is identifying your target before you start shooting. Even if you are yelling out that you are armed, the other person may not understand what you are yelling.

Could the person entering your house or bedroom be trying to save your life? Consider LEO or Fireman that are trying to quickly get people out of a house that is on fire.

Or one of kids came home unexpectedly from college.

I read about tragedies where the spouse shot their significant other because they thought they were still in the bed.

[daddyo]

One item that has been missing in this thread is identifying your target before you start shooting. Even if you are yelling out that you are armed, the other person may not understand what you are yelling.

Could the person entering your house or bedroom be trying to save your life? Consider LEO or Fireman that are trying to quickly get people out of a house that is on fire.

Or one of kids came home unexpectedly from college.

I read about tragedies where the spouse shot their significant other because they thought they were still in the bed.

It goes without saying that you should know the location of everyone in your house who SHOULD be there.

And the only reason the police would be there would be if someone in the house had called 911, which should be done immediately after assessing the threat.

[threeshot]

It goes without saying that you should know the location of everyone in your house who SHOULD be there.

And the only reason the police would be there would be if someone in the house had called 911, which should be done immediately after assessing the threat.

Incorrect. The police may be entering your house to help evacuate due to a fire at your house or the house next door that is threating to spread to your house.

Also assuming who should be in your house may cause you to kill one of your children that came home late (you thought they were already home) or came home unexpectedly from college.

[daddyo]

Incorrect. The police may be entering your house to help evacuate due to a fire at your house or the house next door that is threating to spread to your house.

Also assuming who should be in your house may cause you to kill one of your children that came home late (you thought they were already home) or came home unexpectedly from college.

I'm referring to a home invasion, not a fire.

[MCSCOTT]

Incorrect. The police may be entering your house to help evacuate due to a fire at your house or the house next door that is threating to spread to your house.

Also assuming who should be in your house may cause you to kill one of your children that came home late (you thought they were already home) or came home unexpectedly from college.

These are all possibilities, and also why every situation should be handled differently. If I'm at my house, I will know that there is a fire long before any police or firefighters do most likely. I'm also not crazy enough to think that the time might come where I do not know about it, but at any rate most firefighters and LEO's that enter a home in these situations enter by making enough noise and identifying themselves that the homeowners know what's going on long before a shot can be fired. If I'm at my g/f's apartment, I know that there is the chance that the maintenance guy may have to come in, but in most cases he would identify himself before just barging in and walking through the apartment. If and when I have kids, the way I handle the situation changes again to where I have to be more aware of where, who, and what made the noise that woke me up.

It should definately be noted as you've stated that everyone should identify their target before just blindly opening fire. Most likely if I were to look into situations where a homeowner has shot their spouse, they would end up being cases where the homeowner wasn't really qualified to use the firearm to begin with. I keep mine ready with one in the chamber so that I can quietly determine the situation without giving away my position. Once your position is given away you do not have the option of determining the situation, either they run away only to come back at a better time, or the fight is on before you have the chance to be confident in your position.

If someone is the type of person that would run out the door with guns blazing and shoot whatever moves, then IMHO they should think about not even keeping the gun loaded and hope that the sound of them digging for shells would scare off the BG.

[Guest smileyguy]

Ninja mode? Willfully seeking a gunfight just because one chooses to defend their family? The vast majority of people successfully defending themselves by tactical advantage in a home invasion situation totally debunks your thinking..

Nothing wrong with having the tactical advantage in a gun fight. The point is to avoid the gun fight.

Foolish mentality? What's hard to understand that by making any noise that you just gave away your position? And to actually think that they will be scared away by the sound of you racking one into the chamber is simply foolhardy. That's like thinking that someone will be scared off at the sight of your weapon if you draw in SD. It may happen; it may not, but to count on it is what's foolish. Once again, tactical advantage has has been proven to be successful in multiple home invasion cases. Ask any firearms instructor who teaches home invasion SD tactics..

Actually many a thug run at the sight of a gun. Happens all the time. I would'nt count on it, but the odds are more likely than not. And if they do not I still have a better "tactical advantage" barricaded in a room with one point of entry, 12 gauge pump pointed at that one point of entry than I do by not giving up my position and going into an unknown situation in which I may be outnumbered and out gunned. That is precisely why many "firearms instructors" and well respected experts such as Massad Ayood suggest not clearing a home and waiting for the police.

This I agree with you on; make your stand and wait for them to come to you, but to give away your position is simply stupid..

Of course you agree with me. That position has a far greater "tactical advantage". We can disagree on the giving away your position part. I'll play the odds. The VAST MAJORITY of intruders will get the hell out. If they don't I am prepared to defend myself and family. But why invite a gun fight? It only takes 1 shot to kill you or a loved one. Are you 100% sure that you can dispatch the intruders before they can get 1 shot off? Now that kind of arragance is "simply stupid".

But at the end of the day, I'm only responsible for me and mine.

Me too brotha! We can disagree on tactics, but at least we are armed.

[Will Carry]

DaddyO,

I like the way you think. Have you been readin' Tsun Tsu?

[daddyo]

DaddyO,

I like the way you think. Have you been readin' Tsun Tsu?

No, but I've learned from some good people who I consider trustworthy. And thank you for the compliment.

[daddyo]

Actually many a thug run at the sight of a gun. Happens all the time. I would'nt count on it, but the odds are more likely than not. And if they do not I still have a better "tactical advantage" barricaded in a room with one point of entry, 12 gauge pump pointed at that one point of entry than I do by not giving up my position and going into an unknown situation in which I may be outnumbered and out gunned. That is precisely why many "firearms instructors" and well respected experts such as Massad Ayood suggest not clearing a home and waiting for the police.

Of course you agree with me. That position has a far greater "tactical advantage". We can disagree on the giving away your position part. I'll play the odds. The VAST MAJORITY of intruders will get the hell out. If they don't I am prepared to defend myself and family. But why invite a gun fight? It only takes 1 shot to kill you or a loved one. Are you 100% sure that you can dispatch the intruders before they can get 1 shot off? Now that kind of arragance is "simply stupid".

I would say that my chances of survival are much better if they don't know where in the hell I am. If I'm behind the bedroom door or in the closet with the muzzle of my shotgun pointed at the door and they're stupid enough to come in, then the advantage is mine. All I have to do is pull the trigger. They have to find me before they can hit me. Seconds count. Besides, they're in MY house. They decided to invade MY home.

By your logic, carrying concealed would be "inviting a gunfight" over open carry. Why do you want to give the BG any advantage? And that's not arrogance, it's doing what you have to do to protect yourself and the ones you love.

[Guest smileyguy]

I would say that my chances of survival are much better if they don't know where in the hell I am.

I respectfully disagree. If someone has come into your home, they will likely search the house for whatever they can get their hands on. Sound logic right? They will eventually come up on your position. Thus a gun fight is all but inevitable. If it is a lone intruder, yes you have the advantage. The problem is that these thugs don't usually work alone. Last Aug. and Sept. there were 3 attempted home invasions involving shootings here in Knoxville. Two of the incedents involved 2 perps. The third involved 5 thugs.

If I'm behind the bedroom door or in the closet with the muzzle of my shotgun pointed at the door and they're stupid enough to come in, then the advantage is mine. All I have to do is pull the trigger..

Are you really good enough to get the drop on five people? Seriously? I'm pretty good with my guns, but I'm not gonna play bada** on the internet. My chances of winning the fight are significantly reduced with each additional invader.

Besides, they're in MY house. They decided to invade MY home.

No problem. Shoot them if you have to. They deserve it IMHO. By alerting the thugs that you are aware of their presence, you are armed with a 12 gauge, and the cops are on the way, you have made the perps aware that they have lost their advantage. The common home invader(s) is not going to rush into your bedroom and face a 12 gauge. The vast majority of the time they will leave immediately. In this scenario you have a 100% chance of survival. In your scenario your chance of survival depends on you disabling multiple threats before one can get a shot off on you. I'm not a statistician, but I bet the odds are a lot less than 100%. In the rare case the invader(s) are deranged suicidal psychopaths or crazed meth heads and are not dissuaded, so what! I still have the advantage. Barricaded in a room with a 12 gauge and my girlfriend with a 357 pointed at the one point of entry.

Why do you want to give the BG any advantage?

I'm not giving him an advantage. I'm making them aware that I have the advantage! More times than not, this will end a shoot out before it begins, greatly increasing my chance and my girlfriends chance of surviving.

Hopefully neither of us will have test out our tactics. I'm just glad we have the right to defend ourselves.

[Will Carry]

DaddyO,

I lot of your theories on tactics are described by the Chinese war philosopher Tsun Tsu several thousand years ago. Of course Tsun Tsu wasn't writing about home invasions. But he does say that "It is best to win without fighting." which suggests that we have a home that is hard to break in to. I recon.

God help me if someone breaks into my house. I'll probably just go to the bathroom so I won't crap my pants.

"It is a poor general who wins battles by the courage and valour of his troops. It is a great general who wins without fighting" Tsun Tsu. I believe the transation goes something like that

Edited February 19, 2010 by Will Carry

[daddyo]

I respectfully disagree. If someone has come into your home, they will likely search the house for whatever they can get their hands on. Sound logic right? They will eventually come up on your position. Thus a gun fight is all but inevitable. If it is a lone intruder, yes you have the advantage. The problem is that these thugs don't usually work alone. Last Aug. and Sept. there were 3 attempted home invasions involving shootings here in Knoxville. Two of the incedents involved 2 perps. The third involved 5 thugs.

Are you really good enough to get the drop on five people? Seriously? I'm pretty good with my guns, but I'm not gonna play bada** on the internet. My chances of winning the fight are significantly reduced with each additional invader.

No problem. Shoot them if you have to. They deserve it IMHO. By alerting the thugs that you are aware of their presence, you are armed with a 12 gauge, and the cops are on the way, you have made the perps aware that they have lost their advantage. The common home invader(s) is not going to rush into your bedroom and face a 12 gauge. The vast majority of the time they will leave immediately. In this scenario you have a 100% chance of survival. In your scenario your chance of survival depends on you disabling multiple threats before one can get a shot off on you. I'm not a statistician, but I bet the odds are a lot less than 100%. In the rare case the invader(s) are deranged suicidal psychopaths or crazed meth heads and are not dissuaded, so what! I still have the advantage. Barricaded in a room with a 12 gauge and my girlfriend with a 357 pointed at the one point of entry.

I'm not giving him an advantage. I'm making them aware that I have the advantage! More times than not, this will end a shoot out before it begins, greatly increasing my chance and my girlfriends chance of surviving.

Hopefully neither of us will have test out our tactics. I'm just glad we have the right to defend ourselves.

What you are advocating is the same as telling someone who tries to mess with you that "you know karate". While that may be true, and you may really be able to mess him up, simply notifying him of that is probably not going to be enough to deter him.

I'm willing to bet that in my scenario, if there are multiple attackers, the only one I have to shoot is the first one through the door. Wouldn't that be the same thing as notifying them that I have a shotgun?

In your scenario, they don't know if you are telling the truth or not. In mine, there's no doubt.

[BBdown]

I have my 870 under the bed chamber empty. It lives there 24/7. I keep the chamber empty because I have 3 kids all under 10. While they all know gun safety and respect firearms we always have their friends over. Lots of em. But when no kids other than my own are here the Dan Wesson CBOB is in the nightstand.

[Guest smileyguy]

But he does say that "It is best to win without fighting."

Exactly Will. My goal isn't winning, it's surviving. Probably everyone here knows the #1 rule of a gun fight is to have a gun. How many know the #1 rule of surviving a gun fight? Don't get into a gun fight. Training and tactics are impportant but as a last resort. Cops, who have better training than the average gun owner and who often have body armor, die in armed confrontations, but we here on TN Gun Owners are 10 feet tall and bullet proof because we are armed.

[Guest jackdm3]

No. Only 5'9" here and an easy target. Give 'em both barrels!

[Guest smileyguy]

What you are advocating is the same as telling someone who tries to mess with you that "you know karate". While that may be true, and you may really be able to mess him up, simply notifying him of that is probably not going to be enough to deter him.

It’s not the same at all. Predators pick prey they think is weak. If they think you are much physically weaker than they are, they probably don’t care that you know karate, or may think it is a bluff. Also they usually travel in packs and could care less about your karate. Even the biggest and baddest fear a gun. The racking of the gun in my scenario makes it “known” that I have a gun. It’s pretty much universal in all languages for get the hell out or die. Although no one man’s opinion is the be all end all, here is a quote from someone who knows more than us.

“The overwhelming majority of encounters between armed citizens and violent criminals end just that way, whether in the depths of the inner city or in the wilderness. Perpetrator begins to attack. Perpetrator sees gun pointing at him. Perpetrator suddenly decides that he has made a terrible mistake, and is about to die from what I’ve come to call “sudden and acute failure of the victim selection process.” Perpetrator either flees or surrenders. End of story. Most of the time. Sometimes, the predator is so obsessed or enraged, so drugged out or drunk, or just so unbelievably stupid that he continues the attack. When this happens, the citizen/victim has no choice but to steady the gun and pull the trigger.” - Massad Ayoob

　

I'm willing to bet that in my scenario, if there are multiple attackers, the only one I have to shoot is the first one through the door. Wouldn't that be the same thing as notifying them that I have a shotgun?

Again, it’s not the same at all. Your “warning” comes at a point at which they are close enough to open fire. You are totally surprising someone or multiple people that may have a firearm on the ready. You know for sure that they may not reflexively or even accidentally discharge their weapon in your direction? That’s a huge chance “you are willing to bet”. I wouldn’t bet those odds with my life. In the majority of cases, as Massad points, when I scream “Come get some of this 12 gauge!“ then loudly rack it they will leave ASAP.

In your scenario, they don't know if you are telling the truth or not.

Again, they will know when I scream “Come get some of this 12 gauge!“ then loudly rack it.

In mine, there's no doubt.

There will be no doubt, but it may be too late. I bet most of these criminals don't practice safety like we do, like finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot. The surprise of a shot could lead to an accidental discharge. Why even take that chance with your life when it could be easily avoided?

Edited February 19, 2010 by smileyguy

[daddyo]

Most of the time. Sometimes, the predator is so obsessed or enraged, so drugged out or drunk, or just so unbelievably stupid that he continues the attack. When this happens, the citizen/victim has no choice but to steady the gun and pull the trigger.” - Massad Ayoob

This paragraph just disproved everything you've said. I'm just simply not going to bet my life or the life of my family on the assumption that the BG will turn tail and run just because I've notified him that I have a gun. Even Mas acknowledges that possibility in the statement you provided.

To each his own, I just think that your strategy could get you seriously injured or killed.