1911: Smith & Wesson vs. Kimber vs. Springfield

[MexicanDragon]

Reading through this, most everyone has said the same things I was thinking. When you said "Low End", I think most of us were thinking RIA Tactical and Taurus PT1911B (and I think most of us would go with the RIA). Both around 500$, give or take a few, both really well received by the community. I had a High Standard GI-spec (same as the standard RIA, a step below), and it felt GREAT in my hands. Naturally, the RIA Tactical felt just as nice, if not a little better, and to me feels better than the Taurus.

Then I saw your "low end" comment and "1000$" in the same sentence, and was thinking that you just opened up a whole new world. I saw Dan mention the Sig 1911 lineup. I hear those are pretty much the best in that price range right now. There is also the Dan Wesson line, interesting if you're looking at the Commander Bobtail, especially (is it the least expensive bob on the market? I think it may be).

Have you gotten to handle some of the three that you mentioned? I know it all comes down to personal ergonomics at times when choosing. I know for me, I prefered the feel of the Springfields and Kimbers I've held over the S&W's. I've always had a soft spot in my heart of the Kimber Raptor II, aesthetically, but after getting my hand's on a Grand Raptor II for a little while, I just don't care for the grip... the "scales" if you will.

If you're serious about 1911 aquisition though, you probably would do well to take a day out of your life and make a trip to TN's 1911 Mecca... Hero Gear. Last I read they have about 40-45 in stock. If you wind up liking the S&W, they're the TN Law Enforcement distributor and they offer some nice deals (there's a thread in the Vendor Midway if you haven't checked it out, but I'm sure you have).

I also noticed that someone mentioned both 1911forums.com and m1911.org, both sites I frequent and have found informative. M1911.org also has an e-zine you may want to check out if you haven't yet.

**BRENT**

[Rightwinger]

I also noticed that someone mentioned both 1911forums.com and m1911.org, both sites I frequent and have found informative. M1911.org also has an e-zine you may want to check out if you haven't yet.

**BRENT**

Just a side note, if you go to 1911.org be very careful of what you say and even what your screen name is. I was banned because I refused to change my screen name of Rightwinger and the little Greek dude is a closet nazi and said it was an obvious political statement and he wouldnt' stand for it. I'm Rightwinger on every forum I belong to and it stays....he went. No loss.

Soapbox back in closet....continue festivity.

[MexicanDragon]

Just a side note, if you go to 1911.org be very careful of what you say and even what your screen name is. I was banned because I refused to change my screen name of Rightwinger and the little Greek dude is a closet nazi and said it was an obvious political statement and he wouldnt' stand for it. I'm Rightwinger on every forum I belong to and it stays....he went. No loss.

Soapbox back in closet....continue festivity.

Yeah... I said "Crap" there and I got a warning from the mods that stayed with me for a few months... that was my first post. ****in' A.

**BRENT**

[Marswolf]

The Springfield and S&W guns seem to me to be better for the money (a nice way of saying Kimber is overpriced)...

but in the $500 range, I'd actually prefer to have a Rock Island than anything.

Owning both ends of the spectrum - a Rock Island and a Wilson Combat - I have a strange perspective. I've owned several other 1911s along the line, including a couple of military ones.

In my experience, Kimber is a decent semi-custom 1911 style handgun. They work pretty well, have decent accuracy and reliability, but I also think they are a bit overpriced.

Now, the Wilson is very accurate, but also a bit picky about ammunition. Personally, I don't think it is as reliable as I would want for a carry gun. Sort of a target grade 1911. It really is a custom handgun. Lots of hand-tuning on the thing. That helps explain its outrageous price. But if I was going to go with a gun for accuracy, I'd buy another Wilson. Beautifully finished handgun too (also part of the cost).

But the 1911 I have enjoyed the most of all that I have had is the Rock Island. Not just inexpensive, it's also reliable and pretty darn accurate. The cheap price is a nice feature. It's only real downsides are sights you have to get used to in order to love, and the fact that some after market 1911 parts won't fit it. Some of the pins are in just a slightly different location. So that Wilson beaver tail might not fit your RI (it won't).

[Guest Mugster]

+1 on that.

If you are interested in shooting vs looking at your pistols, a workhorse like the RIA tactical or the taurus pt1911 makes alot of sense. Jeff Quinn reviewed both pistols, and they both get high marks. I think the taurus gets the nod in features but you'll pay more now i think. Longevity, who cares? Shoot the snot out of them and buy another when you have too. They last a loooong time if you keep them lubed and maintained.

[Guest Boomhower]

Well I got a chance to go out to a local shop here, and look at a few of these babies. They had one Rock Island, a few Springfield's, a few Kimber's, couple of Taurus's and one Dan Wesson. I started off looking at the RI. It felt ok, but one of the first things I noticed was the fixed front site. I didn't really like that, but that's about the only thing I could complain about for $400. I didn't get any SA's or Kimber's out since I have fondled them before, but I didn't look at the Taurus, and I hadn't even see the Dan Wesson until one of the guys picked it up and handed it to me. Let me just say, O.....My......God......Within mili-sec's I could tell the difference in quality. Just the touch alone felt like a sin . Even though it did carry a price tag of $969, it wasn't as hard to swallow as I thought it would be. Now, who has a grand they'd be willing to spot me?......This is almost as bad as drugs. I can hear myself saying it now. "Hello, my name is Boomhower, and I am a 1911 owner"

Seriously though, I've got a few questions. In talking with the guys there at the shop, they said that they didn't think the Dan Wesson was a stock model. They thought it had a trigger job, bobtail grip, bobtail hammer, and who knew what else internally. My questions is, is this stuff standard with Dan Wesson, or any other 1911 like that, or do you have to order them that way? What all can be done internally?

[Guest Mugster]

Haha. All that stuff is standard with any of the high end .45's. There really aren't any bad pistols out there anymore. With the market the way it is, any 1911 that fails in some manner of performance simply won't sell.

I think you should do some power surfing of 1911 maker's web sites. Get familiar with the products and the rough price tags you are going to see. Here is Dan Wesson's stuff:

http://czusa.net/products_dan_wesson.php

The bobtail refers to the 45 degree cut across the heel (bottom of the pistol grip). I'm not sure why anyone would want that, but it does look kinda cool.

[Marswolf]

I see a surprising number of people referring to a beavertail as a bobtail.

Personally, I don't think the bobtail makes the grip feel better, but maybe that's because I'm an old fart and is used to the military style grip.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

The bobtail refers to the 45 degree cut across the heel (bottom of the pistol grip). I'm not sure why anyone would want that, but it does look kinda cool.

I'm not a fan of the bobtail cut, but it's strictly for concealed carry issues. It gets rid of potentially printing on clothes, due to the "sharp" 90* angle of the handgrip on normal (non-bobtailed) 1911s, when worn concealed on the hip. There are also some companies that radius cut that part of their 1911's, rather than clipping it off as in the bobtails, to provice a smoother curve.

Personally, and it's just my opinion, it may reduce printing when carrying concealed... but I think it also looks like poop on any 1911, and ruins what would otherwise be an amazing looking handgun.

[Guest Mugster]

Hahaha. I think a beavertail is what college guys chase after in the frathouse.

Here's a good link on 1911 mods/terminology:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/custom_mods.htm

[willis68]

I'm not a fan of the bobtail cut, but it's strictly for concealed carry issues. It gets rid of potentially printing on clothes, due to the "sharp" 90* angle of the handgrip on normal (non-bobtailed) 1911s, when worn concealed on the hip. There are also some companies that radius cut that part of their 1911's, rather than clipping it off as in the bobtails, to provice a smoother curve.

Personally, and it's just my opinion, it may reduce printing when carrying concealed... but I think it also looks like poop on any 1911, and ruins what would otherwise be an amazing looking handgun.

Verbal,

While I agree with you that on a government model 1911, a Bobtail ruins the looks,(as do mag wells, Light rails, front cocking serrations)(all my opinion) I love them on a commander 1911, besides the fact that they are amazing for concealed carry, I actually shoot them better, I was not fond of the look of them before I actually shot one, While I wil never Bobtail one of my government model pistols, every commander that I will own will have one, different strokes for different folks, but you should honestly handle and shoot one if you have not before ruling them out in your future,

[Marswolf]

Hahaha. I think a beavertail is what college guys chase after in the frathouse.

I don't recall that just being fratboys. But maybe things have changed.

BTW, this is how a 1911 should look:

Wilson Tactical Supergrade. Less than $3900. (No, this is not what I have.)

I love the mag well.

[Marswolf]

Or this one:

1943 Remington-Rand

Mean looking dude handling it. Notice he has his finger on the trigger - where God intended it to be.

[willis68]

Sorry to disagree, but this is how one should look, I do own this one, I am just not a good Photographer! for better pictures go here

http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/00255.1.323294088312553532 Mine has a naked slide. in my opinion this is the absolute best representation of John Moses Brownings masterpiece,

[Guest Boomhower]

NO....that's not......is that......really you?......thought you had half a skull face?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

NO....that's not......is that......really you?......thought you had half a skull face?

Oh ****... now he's going to have to kill us all!

[Im Neero]

Mean looking dude handling it. Notice he has his finger on the trigger - where God intended it to be.

It doesn't look cocked though. That finger doesn't do much good there unless the hammer is back.

[Marswolf]

NO....that's not......is that......really you?......thought you had half a skull face?

You'll have to ask the gang from the first ET shoot or Julie.

I recently went back from operations staff to advisory staff. And that picture is on my front porch about four years ago. Had the skull face surgery since then,

And Im Neero, maybe it's a DA/SA WWII 1911....

Here's one from about 20 years ago. Just goofin' off with some buddies in training, but note the finger on the trigger.

[Guest Boomhower]

You'll have to ask the gang from the first ET shoot or Julie.

I was there at that one as well, I just didn't get a chance to meet cha FTF. Saw you from a distance, but I figured I only saw your good side.