My 1911 goes Kaboom

[Johnny_Utah]

Trigger.....BANG......Trigger....BANG.....Trigger....KABOOM!!

The gun dropped out of my hand and I backed away. After a spray of plastic and what felt like a mallet to my hand, I realized things could be FUBAR'ed. A quick pat down and everything was fine. (Though later I pulled out some chards implanted in my cheek) The glasses and Gloves saved me.

When I went to pick up the gun, the hammer was cocked, and the safety engaged. The base plate for the mag was blown out along with the spring and one bullet. I found one case on the ground and the bullet was pushed in too far. There was one mangled shell inside the magazine, which was still inside the pistol. I ejected the magazine, which only had a small crack at the top rear. I did find the bullet which goes with the mangled shell inside the magazine. It's the one that took the brunt inside the mag well.

The gun was cleaned thoroughly before this session. It was the 6th of an 8rnd mag, and was the second magazine of the SWC’s, first four mags were 230gr LRN. Some people have claimed that the leading can cause a jamming situation. I had shot these same rounds from this and other 1911’s.

So I post this with a bit of humility, I want to know exactly what happened. I think this is the only way to make sure that this doesn't happen again. If anything others can learn from the same scenario.

Reloads from a dillon 650

200gr SWC

5.6gr win-231

1.190 COAL

This is stripped Taurus 1911. Notice the chambered case and the following case with its gnarled bullet.

The bottom case is the one pulled from the chamber. I had to forcefully pull the slide back and eject the case.

This bullet was the last one in the magazine.

The barrel has some noticeable differences after this. Just forward of the barrel link there is a small bulge, it has two indentations parallel to the frame. The barrel link also has some marring on it.

The slide has one feature which I can’t seem to remember if it was there already. The dimple, is it from the factory or maybe from the disconnector??

Take a look at those three red circles and tell us what you see. The frame is definitely cracked.

My glove definitely has to be given a little credit.

So the scenarios I’ve come up with.

1. Out of battery. Potentially from the case being too tight in the barrel and just barely out of battery. Out of tolerance case length, stretched too long.

2. Case head separation. (reload with 1x fired from a Glock, or too many times fired)

3. Primer protruding out of tolerance. Pre-mature firing during battery.

4. Double Charge.

5. FTF purchase, someone else doing a ramp polish and took off way too much.

Now, I'm not sure what qualifies a reloader to be "experienced," but I can say that a situation like this isn't my preferred path. The fear of the “Kaboom†is what drives me to self-educate before self-surgery.

[Krull]

Your lucky brother. Wish I could shed some light on this. What a cat failure.

[Johnny_Utah]

If anyone has a Taurus 1911, check the slide to see if there is a dimple in the divot for the disconnector. Let me know if this is factory or not. Please and thank you.

[LngRngShtr]

First off, I am glad you are OK guns are easier to fix than hands....glad it was cold enough for you to wear gloves...

Lets see what we see... with the bulge in the bottom of the barrel and a separated head it would indicate a high pressure failure.. the gun being cocked indicates to me the extractor slipped off the casing (or the casing sheared) and was pushed back by pressure at least enough to recock the pistol the round below too mangled to feed or possibly blown down by pressure at that point the safety being on would be perhaps if you shoot "low thumbs" or just pressure inside the gun finding its way out..

the markings on the slide for the disconnector are a mystery to me perhaps the pressure venting forced it upwards ?

I reloaded some ammo once for a Detonics and got a double charge,(we pulled the other 40 or so and found a second one...casings looked similar but it didn't crack the frame and the pachmayr grips held together but did bow out (steel linings) and there was scorching near the slide stop/plunger area

I may be possible that when setting up for your run of ammo you double charged a casing? I know most 650s auto index but it can be disabled and a shooting buddy usually disables to setup charge weight,COAL, etc. and resets index to run his batch of ammo could this have happened ?

Usually straight walled pistol cases shrink and get thin at the mouths as they age so a too long case (range find?) is unlikely you could measure from your barrel hood (top) to the chamber cut with a vernier and see what you come up with..

Fired too many times ? I have some casings that have been fired to the point of no head stamp writing is visible they usually crack down the side first,but none of my .45s have been through a Glock as far as I know..

High primer,.. I can't see the case head but that wouldn't explain the head separation which shows that case was fully or very close to fully chambered usually a high primer .45 will pop sooner and really open it up or not allow the slide to close as the round slides up the face of the slide... is the primer flush and how flattened is it ? can we see a pic of the casehead ? and the face of the slide ?

As for the 3 red circles,.. looks like the left most (by the hammer) matches a mark on the hammer,the other 2 I am unsure, there isn't really anything in a cycling .45 that hits there the slide impacts up forward unless the magazine was forced back by pressure but I am unsure if this would crack your disconnector hole, a properly working disconnector keeps a 1911 from firing until it is almost 100% into battery try it with another 1911 that barrel is almost totally locked up before firing now if it developed this crack ,unnoticed , could it have allowed the pistol to fire further out of battery ?

Ramp polish,.. we would need to see another pic or 2 to see how it looks compared to a "stock" barrel and ramp..

I am sure someone here has a pressure program to check the pressures of your load vs. a hypothetical double charge..

Yet another possibility is some errant powder in the measure,not 231, but say a different burn rate powder creating pressure spikes? what would say a 5.6 charge of Bullseye powder do ? or some rifle powder ?

I do not know your handloading technique, nor am I bashing you it is just a possibility

I hope we can all learn what happened here to keep it from happening anywhere else...

John

[Magiccarpetrides]

Glad your ok, I bet if you sent it to Taurus they would replace it :-) Its worth a shot.

[Johnny_Utah]

LngRngShtr,

Thanks for addressing my concerns. I will get some pictures up tomorrow. 1- case head, 2- feed ramp.

I appreciate your reply.

[Kegger]

That dimple in the slide is not normal. Mine has no such markings.

[frankmako]

i am glad you where not hurt bad. sometimes it is hard to run down why these things happen. you can see some case head seperation. case head seperation is hard to track down, could be weak brass, hot load, hard to tell.

[Krull]

Does shooting reloads void the warranty on a Taurus? I don't own one so I have no idea.

[Guest Arko]

Holy crap! Thanks for posting that, and glad you had gloves and glasses on.

[Alpha7]

Trigger.....BANG......Trigger....BANG.....Trigger....KABOOM!!

The gun dropped out of my hand and I backed away. After a spray of plastic and what felt like a mallet to my hand, I realized things could be FUBAR'ed. A quick pat down and everything was fine. (Though later I pulled out some chards implanted in my cheek) The glasses and Gloves saved me.

When I went to pick up the gun, the hammer was cocked, and the safety engaged. The base plate for the mag was blown out along with the spring and one bullet. I found one case on the ground and the bullet was pushed in too far. There was one mangled shell inside the magazine, which was still inside the pistol. I ejected the magazine, which only had a small crack at the top rear. I did find the bullet which goes with the mangled shell inside the magazine. It's the one that took the brunt inside the mag well.

The gun was cleaned thoroughly before this session. It was the 6th of an 8rnd mag, and was the second magazine of the SWC’s, first four mags were 230gr LRN. Some people have claimed that the leading can cause a jamming situation. I had shot these same rounds from this and other 1911’s.

So I post this with a bit of humility, I want to know exactly what happened. I think this is the only way to make sure that this doesn't happen again. If anything others can learn from the same scenario.

Reloads from a dillon 650

200gr SWC

5.6gr win-231

1.190 COAL

This is stripped Taurus 1911. Notice the chambered case and the following case with its gnarled bullet.

The bottom case is the one pulled from the chamber. I had to forcefully pull the slide back and eject the case.

This bullet was the last one in the magazine.

The barrel has some noticeable differences after this. Just forward of the barrel link there is a small bulge, it has two indentations parallel to the frame. The barrel link also has some marring on it.

The slide has one feature which I can’t seem to remember if it was there already. The dimple, is it from the factory or maybe from the disconnector??

Take a look at those three red circles and tell us what you see. The frame is definitely cracked.

My glove definitely has to be given a little credit.

So the scenarios I’ve come up with.

1. Out of battery. Potentially from the case being too tight in the barrel and just barely out of battery. Out of tolerance case length, stretched too long.

2. Case head separation. (reload with 1x fired from a Glock, or too many times fired)

3. Primer protruding out of tolerance. Pre-mature firing during battery.

4. Double Charge.

5. FTF purchase, someone else doing a ramp polish and took off way too much.

Now, I'm not sure what qualifies a reloader to be "experienced," but I can say that a situation like this isn't my preferred path. The fear of the “Kaboom†is what drives me to self-educate before self-surgery.

Reloads huh? If I am not mistaken the taurus 1911 owners manual strictly states no reloads or +powered ammo. I have heard this issue you are having alot with reloads.

[Alpha7]

Does shooting reloads void the warranty on a Taurus? I don't own one so I have no idea.

It does indeed

[Guest Todd@CIS]

For a second, I thought Glock had started making 1911s.

Seriously, glad you're OK.

[Hotshot]

Glad you are ok. Sounds like a double charge to me.

[1gewehr]

We used to see this fairly regularly with .45acp lead SWC ammo in pistols with tight chambers.

What happens is that lead buildup in the barrel prevents full chambering, and the firing pin spring allows the firing pin to impact the primer when the slide stops suddenly.

Based on the last round's bullet setback, the round that KB'd may have had the same type of setback from a loose crimp. In that's true, the charge would have been compressed, leading to a more powerful KB than would otherwise have happened.

Lead bullets and autoloaders usually are not a good mix. If you want to fire lead bullets, then you have to be very careful to ensure that all leading is removed from the bore and chamber.

Additionally, I would suggest that you reload all of your cartridges. And this time, make sure that the crimp is tighter.

I'm glad that nobody was injured. I've had the same thing happen to me with a Colt Series 80 Gold Cup.

[Curiousgb]

Lead bullets and autoloaders usually are not a good mix. If you want to fire lead bullets, then you have to be very careful to ensure that all leading is removed from the bore and chamber.

This may be true. I have fired thousands of 200 lswc's through my 1911's with nary a problem. I don't run hot loads, and I do clean them, but I have gone through sessions of 500 rounds or more without cleaning and had no issues.

[timcalhoun]

The two most likely scenarios to me is (like mentioned before) bullet set back or something in the case besides powder. If any debris makes it to the charging station it can reduce the volume of the case and cause dangerous pressure levels.

I load on a 650 too, and if it is set up right it is really hard to double charge since it will move the shell plate long before it will re-charge the powder bar. Did you have a malfunction and manually move the shellplate for any reason?

Do you have a powder check? If not it is the best 39 bucks you can spend and will catch any weird anomalies in the case.

At any rate sorry for your ka-boom and I'm glad you were not hurt.

[LagerHead]

I have nothing to add. But I am glad you came out relatively unscathed. I hope that once you decide on what's happened we can use it to our advantage.

[Idaho]

The two most likely scenarios to me is (like mentioned before) bullet set back or something in the case besides powder. If any debris makes it to the charging station it can reduce the volume of the case and cause dangerous pressure levels.

I vote for bullet setback. Check some of your reloads and see if you can push the bullets in with your thumb. I can't see how that one got pushed in that far from the kaboom unless it was not crimped good enough. If the last one that fired was pushed in like that by the feed ramp I am sure that would be a contributing factor.

[LngRngShtr]

What happens is that lead buildup in the barrel prevents full chambering, and the firing pin spring allows the firing pin to impact the primer when the slide stops suddenly.

If your firing pin is overcoming your spring it is time to replace the spring..JMB put the spring there to keep this from happening (an AR will dimple primers because there isn't a firing pin spring) ..Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911's have an extra heavy FP Spring (and Ti firing pin) to pass CA-DOJ drop test to make it sellable in Cali without all that Series 80 levers and plungers Colt uses..

A pic of the back of the casing and a fired casing (before the incident to compare any offset,as most will be slightly off center) would answer if it was in battery or not as the barrel slides up the breech face the last 1/16" of slide travel or so.. a centered firing pin strike (comparatively speaking) means the gun was in battery.. a perimeter hit would lean to a worn or somehow disabled/defective disconnector (maybe the frame was on its way to cracking due to some other factor) allowing the hammer to fall and no hit would be a high primer..

John

[Johnny_Utah]

After seeing the gunsmith, it was fired out of battery. It's unknown what to blame, firing out of battery, bullet setback, not fully seated in chamber(possibly leading).

What a learning experience!! Thanks for the advise.

[LngRngShtr]

Does the 'smith think she can be saved ?

[Johnny_Utah]

Cost would prohibit the fixing. Not gunna happen:(

[LngRngShtr]

well,.. keep it in the safe maybe someday a .22 conversion if the bottom end isn't bad that crack probably wouldn't mind a .22 top end.. or use it for a carbine conversion..

Mech Tech Systems, Inc.

[Alpha7]

I think we can establish this was caused by reloads and reloads are not to be used in the taurus pt 1911 or really for any model.