Microclimate?

[Mark@Sea]

A UK paper is blaming freezing deaths on global warming.

"...In a world growing ever hotter, Huancavelica is an anomaly. These communities, living at the edge of what is possible, face extinction because of increasingly cold conditions in their own microclimate, which may have been altered by the rapid melting of the glaciers."

Apparently this microclimate extends worldwide.

This may be the most amazing (albeit horribly misplaced) display of faith in the face of overwhelming contradictory fact that I've ever seen. If they can keep chanting "global warming" while people freeze to death, it explains a lot about their political theories. Facts? We don't need no steenking facts!

Question; are they terminally stupid, or truly evil?

[BrasilNuts]

The followers are terminally stupid, the leaders are truly evil.

[poak]

I once heard that glaciers melted before mankind had even invented fire... What crazy talk.

[Guest SUNTZU]

[Guest Jcochran88]

I once heard that glaciers melted before mankind had even invented fire... What crazy talk.

Thanks spit coke all over my laptop!

[Guest Muttling]

Actually, one of the great possibilities of global warming is throwing Europe into a brief ice age. Just because the average planet temperature increases doesn't mean everything warms up.

It's called climate change instead of global warming for a reason.

[Mark@Sea]

Yeah, and the reason is that a whole lot of people looked at a decade of declining temps, and quit buying Al's books/video.

Answer me this, if the temperature has dropped on every major continent, if folks in Peru are freezing to death in the summer (southern hemisphere), Europe, America, Russia, China, and India are all experiencing record low temps, what particular spot on earth has become a blast furnace in order to bring the 'global average' up?

Some folks are just educated beyond their intelligence.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Mark@Sea

[Guest SUNTZU]

YouTube - Hypno Toad

[Mike.357]

thats what I am talking about!

[Guest 22-rimfire]

Didn't see anything in the article suggesting climate change. Looks like a cold snap. Happened before and it will happen again. The glaciers melted before... we're in an interglacial period and they will likely grow again. Time to get out and shoot some ice!

Microclimate? Lots of them around. My front porch is a microclimate. I still have green plants in all this cold weather.

Edited January 7, 2010 by 22-rimfire

[Guest Muttling]

Yeah, and the reason is that a whole lot of people looked at a decade of declining temps, and quit buying Al's books/video.

Answer me this, if the temperature has dropped on every major continent, if folks in Peru are freezing to death in the summer (southern hemisphere), Europe, America, Russia, China, and India are all experiencing record low temps, what particular spot on earth has become a blast furnace in order to bring the 'global average' up?

Some folks are just educated beyond their intelligence.

I don't know......Tell my why I was such an idiot as a child that I trick or treated in the snow and frequently hunted deer in November in the snow but we NEVER get snow in those months now.

I grew up in Knoxville btw. That was back when single digit temperatures weren't an OMG event. Most years, we got into the negatives.

I guess I grew up in a couple of decades that were just unusually low tempteratures and listened to my dad talk of similar stuff that was also unusual. God forbid that we actually accept the reality that the planet is warming up.

God forbid that we actually consider the artic ice sheet thickness data that the Navy has been collecting for decades so they know where a boomer can bust through the ice to launch nukes.

Denile is so much fun. If you deny there's an issue then you don't have to do anything about it. Just like the alchoholic or smoker who says it's not a problem.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Denile is so much fun.

Personally, I'm....

I hope the crocodiles are sleeping.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Since 2007, children's acute respiratory infections have increased by 30% and staple food production has fallen by 44%. Latest figures show that one in 10 children do not live to see their first birthday.

Peru - Narcotics Trafficking

"The welfare of children is sidelined because the situation is so bad that everything has become about the survival of the animals, both for the families themselves and the agencies who are trying to support them," says Teresa Carpio, director of Save the Children Peru. She expects to see child mortality in the region rise this year.

"In the west we tend to think that children take priority above all else, but when there is this level of desperation, children can be the last to get the attention they so badly need – until it is too late."

Give us money, so that we can do for our animals and maybe the kids. Elsewhere in the article they first talk about a soaking wet kid following his father and the dad complains about his falling down house. Later they talk about building shelter for the alpacas, yet the kids are sleeping on the wet ground. They're at 5000m. Head downhill.

"It's always been poor here, but now the situation is getting critical," she says. She points to the 20 or so children lined up in the waiting room. "All of these children are malnourished, some very dangerously so, and winter is still five months away.

"I don't have any strong antibiotics to give them, only aspirin. I can't even refer them to the hospital in Huancavelica because nobody has enough money to pay for transport there and the men here are reluctant to spend on anything but the animals."

Rojas Huanqui says the regional government is working hard to strengthen health systems with more doctors and nurses in "most" of the villages, but admits that the state has been unable to deliver the basic services required.

"I'm not going to deny that it's really hard to supply the great amount of villages there are, and they are used to getting everything for free, so the progress that the government makes is limited, but we do need to implement stronger medicines up in the villages that need it most," he says.

There is anger among Huancavelica's mountain people at what they see as the inaction of regional and central government. Although aid packages and clothing bundles arrive with the onset of winter, it does not compensate for what these people believe is the ambivalence of the authorities to their fate.

"We can only put ourselves in God's hands, because nobody else is helping us," says Carolina Flores, a mother of six whose six-month-old daughter is dangerously ill with pneumonia. "Our men have gone and talked to people in the government and told them what is happening to us, but they do nothing. We are not important to them, so we die up here and nobody helps us."

Give me my free stuff.

Those working with indigenous populations in Huancavelica are warning that governments cannot expect people in threatened villages to accept their fate lying down.

If we don't get our free stuff, will fight for it, and then we still won't get our free stuff. I wonder if those alpacas are addicted to cocaine from carrying the leaves and paste all over the countryside.

[Mark@Sea]

Okay, it was cold when you were a kid. It's cold now. This is because the earth is heating up. Somewhere.

Riiight. Gaia has a "tempature". Ignore contradictory evidence, whitewash proven

scientific malpractice, gloss over computer models that, besides contradicting the second law of thermodynamics, can't predict a month in advance (or even agree with previously collected data). Absolve any possible profit motive to the "high priests" of global warming, despite proven links to commercial activities fundamentally involved in making a profit on cap and tax. Ignore the hundreds of scientists who disagree. Forget about the raw data that was "adjusted" to fit the theory.

Denial. Yep, its' a real hoot.

[analog_kidd]

I don't know......Tell my why I was such an idiot as a child that I trick or treated in the snow and frequently hunted deer in November in the snow but we NEVER get snow in those months now.

I grew up in Knoxville btw. That was back when single digit temperatures weren't an OMG event. Most years, we got into the negatives.

I guess I grew up in a couple of decades that were just unusually low tempteratures and listened to my dad talk of similar stuff that was also unusual. God forbid that we actually accept the reality that the planet is warming up.

God forbid that we actually consider the artic ice sheet thickness data that the Navy has been collecting for decades so they know where a boomer can bust through the ice to launch nukes.

Denile is so much fun. If you deny there's an issue then you don't have to do anything about it. Just like the alchoholic or smoker who says it's not a problem.

I'm sorry, but I got to call on this post. You're telling us it snowed on a regular basis during Holloween when you were a kid in knoxville? Late October these days is maybe in the 50's at night and 70's during the day. So, you think there has been a 20-30 degree shift in temperature since you were a kid? The global warming nuts are all in a tizzy over a 3 degree shift in temperature.

You claim we got into the negatives on a regular basis? I look at the record lows on the weather each night, and I don't recall seeing them say that. In fact just this last night we blew away the recorded temperature for the day, and it was 15 degrees in Knoxville. Don't know how far back that goes, but I'm pretty sure it's at least the early 1900's.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Climate Information for Knoxville - Tennessee - South - United States - Climate Zone

[Mark@Sea]

Records go back to 1871

Knoxville climate normals and records

Lowest monthly average temps for the months of October, November, and December were recorded in 1875, 1872 and 1876, respectively.

Highest monthly averages for those months were in 1919, 1985, and 1889.

I'll say it again, Global Warming is about climate like Gun Control is about crime.

Feewings, nuffin more than feewings...

Edited January 8, 2010 by Mark@Sea

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" says more about the myth of

"global warming" or "abrupt climate change" than one would ever

get out of Hadley CRU and their climate communists. I don't recall ever trick or treating in the snow in Clarksville, but maybe. I do recall it snowing more one year and less the next.

I have enough trouble trying to unendoctrinate my son's BS

while he attends UT Knoxville for a BS in engineering. It seems

sometimes most of the science is laced with too much political

science. After all, it's only BS(Barbara Streisand)

[Mark@Sea]

Re-reading this thread, I realized I may need to make an apology. Muttling, I didn't mean to imply you were an idiot as a child.

Just ran across a fascinating tidbit - those tree ring samples (mis)used to show the earth is undergoing unprecedented warming? Came from 30 miles north of the arctic tree line. Must have been those walking trees I saw in some movie... Yeah, that's it - the trees were walking north to stay cooler! Proof of global warmening, or an idiots' theory? You decide...

Edited January 8, 2010 by Mark@Sea

[Guest Jamie]

I just heard this morning that this is the coldest start for a year in 138 years.

( This was from Jeff Ray, on Ch. 2 news out of Nashville. )

J.

[Guest Jamie]

Actually, one of the great possibilities of global warming is throwing Europe into a brief ice age. Just because the average planet temperature increases doesn't mean everything warms up.

It's called climate change instead of global warming for a reason.

So is Tn part of Europe all of a sudden? 'Cause we seem to be having our own little ice age here, for some reason...

Sorry, but to me, the wall-to-wall freezing temps we currently have here in the continental U.S. doesn't quite qualify as a "micro-climate".

J.

[BrasilNuts]

I don't see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch because of global warming/climate change. So what if the ocean rises an inch or two and some folks have to move inland. Adapt and overcome. Things change, the earths climate is cyclical and we'll just have to deal with it... it's really our only option because, even though Al would like you to think otherwise, you can't change it.

Let's suppose for a minute that global warming is our fault (mankind) and we can do something to reverse global warming, when should we stop so that we don't over correct and throw the earth into a global cooling phase... wait a minute, it is pretty cold out side... maybe all the hybrids finally tipped the scales!

:panic:Oh my God we're all going to freeze to death!!!!

[analog_kidd]

I still say that even IF man did cause global warming, with the population booming out of control, there would be no real way to stop it. We will be throwing good money at a problem that cannot be solved.

We would be better served trying to figure out ways to adapt to the new climate. That is something we could live with forever. Stopping global warming will just be a perpetual money train.

[Mark@Sea]

Actually, if you follow the money, it doesn't go anywhere near "solving the problem". Instead, its' kind of like foreign aid for corporations in China, India, Russia, Nigeria... well, pretty much everywhere. Only its' financed by American corporations and citizens.

Al Gore gets a cut of it by acting as a brokerage for 'carbon credits'. Now, carbon has pretty much nothing to do with the process. Various formulae are used to determine how many 'credits' are given to a corporation in, say, India. More of these credits are given to certain private institutions for promotion of 'global warming' awareness.

In Als' (and Obamas) ideal world, a corporation in the US (lets' say a power co-op, an auto maker, or a refinery) that wants to produce anything that can be 'connected' to CO2 production will have to purchase those credits from the foreign corporation/institution.

The CO2 limits were supposed to be set at Copenhagen. This would have put an artificial cap on a wholly imaginary commodity. This would, of course, induce a hike on the cost of these 'credits'. Who makes out? Well, third world tinpots, corporations (such as the one the head of the UN climate crowd is paid by), Al G, through commissions on both the buying and selling of this 'commodity', and the idiots in the US who get to feel better. Who pays? We do, directly and indirectly. As a bonus, the UN is handed control of the economic thermostat for every country that signs onto this bushwa.

Not one cent would go to, say, three engineers in Texas who have found cheap, easy ways to create a massive carbon sink, or anyone in aerospace who figured out that the quickest way to cool the earth would be to explode a few tons of any dark, dusty material in low orbit.

This whole scam isn't about the weather. Its' about money and power, and giving the UN the ability to directly tax Americans.

I've pretty much given up on 'true believers' at this point. I pretty much just laugh and point. They didn't use facts to reach the position they hold, so it isn't possible to use facts to get them to change their position.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Mark@Sea