The OTH discharge question

[Guest mustangdave]

For all...thought I would dig up some info on the OTH discharge...here are the basics:

Other Than Honorable (OTH)

A OTH is the most severe form of administrative discharge. This type of discharge represents a serious departure from the conduct and performance expected of all military members. OTH discharges are typically given to service members convicted by a civilian court in which a sentence of confinement has been adjudged or in which the conduct leading to the conviction brings discredit upon the service. It can also be given as the result of certain civil hearings, like a divorce for adultery. OTH discharges can be accepted in-lieu of court-martial proceedings at the service-member's request. Persons facing OTH are guaranteed, by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the right to have their discharge heard by an administrative discharge board, which is similar to a court-martial but is not a public forum.

Recipients of OTH discharges are barred from reenlisting into any component of the Armed Forces (including the reserves), and are normally barred from joining the Army National Guard or Air National Guard, except under rare circumstances that require exception-to-policy waivers. As of September 2006, all 50 states had policies barring the reenlistment of UOTHC discharge recipients.

In addition, the majority of veterans' benefits are not available to individuals who receive an other than honorable conditions discharge, including the Montgomery GI Bill and (in most cases) VA healthcare benefits.

[Steelharp]

Which begs the question, how would one even acquire an HCP in any state if the ramifications are that severe?

[Smith]

Got it before the discharge. He is 22 according to his profile and says he has been carrying 1.5 years.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Smith

[Motasyco]

Some members of the video game generation don't understand that you can't just restart at the beginning when you screw up. Some screw ups are hard to fix and don't just go away. I hope he has learned something from this unfortunate situation.

[oldogy]

Some members of the video game generation don't understand that you can't just restart at the beginning when you screw up.

This is about the most straight forward and to the point statement this old boy has heard. Very good.

oldogy

[R1100R]

Most soldiers that are trainees receive a General Discharge it they don't make the

standard for service. This type is given only to those in training status. These days

you have to really do something to get a OTH discharge. This is according to my JAG.

I am in a RSC which is a Two Star Command and he has sight over the nine southern States. The worst being a Dishonorable which speaks for itself. I am only speaking from the Army stand point.

[trblmkr13]

When I was in most of the OTH's where for drug related offenses

[Defender]

My job is helping military veterans find jobs. One thing I have discovered is that different agencies view veterans status differently. I am at the state level and we have more than one rule, depending on the department providing the service to the veteran. The feds also have more than one rule, depending on who provides the service. I always questioned why this is, and FINALLY I got the answer. Most agencies, especially at the Federal level, but also some state agencies, usually those that are Federally funded, get their funding from laws passed by Congress. Each time Congress passes a law, they specify which veteran is elgible, or what discharge makes that veteran elgible for that particular progam. Thats why we end up with a multitude of different answers to who is and is not a veteran, and who is or is not entitled to this veterans benefit or that one. Makes things very confusing, indeed.

Edited January 5, 2010 by barewoolf

[E4 No More]

I seem to recall back in the day that one could get an OTH for too many NJP's, (Article 15's). Can anyone confirm/deny? Was I too close to the howitzers for too long?

[trblmkr13]

I think NJP's would fall under General discharge unless they where processing you out before your contract was up

[E4 No More]

I guess it's a moot point anyways. Do what you agreed to do when you signed the contract and you don't have to worry about anything other than an Honorable Discharge.

[TripleDigitRide]

Is the thread in response to another thread?

[BryanP]

Is the thread in response to another thread?

Yes. Hint: it's in this sub-forum. And locked. Today.

[rentalguy1]

I guess it's a moot point anyways. Do what you agreed to do when you signed the contract and you don't have to worry about anything other than an Honorable Discharge.

Yeah...I did everything they told me to do, and when they dislocated my spine they sent me home with a general (under honorable conditions) discharge. They couldn't get me out fast enough! I wanted to get better, and stay so I could get even, but they had other ideas.

[Glock30Owner]

Most soldiers that are trainees receive a General Discharge it they don't make the

standard for service. This type is given only to those in training status. These days

you have to really do something to get a OTH discharge. This is according to my JAG.

I am in a RSC which is a Two Star Command and he has sight over the nine southern States. The worst being a Dishonorable which speaks for itself. I am only speaking from the Army stand point.

Do they not still give Uncharacterized discharges to those who were on active duty less than 6 months? Or is that discharg only for those who are going National Guard/Reserves?

[Glock30Owner]

Yeah...I did everything they told me to do, and when they dislocated my spine they sent me home with a general (under honorable conditions) discharge. They couldn't get me out fast enough! I wanted to get better, and stay so I could get even, but they had other ideas.

My General discharge under honorable conditions came about because I didn't kiss the rear end of a racist First Sergent.

I guess I didn't do as I was told.

[E4 No More]

Yeah...I did everything they told me to do, and when they dislocated my spine they sent me home with a general (under honorable conditions) discharge. They couldn't get me out fast enough! I wanted to get better, and stay so I could get even, but they had other ideas.

It's still honorable, and nowhere near an OTH.

I've heard younger guys that were in the Army say things similar to what Glock30Owner said. I can only assume that the Army has different rules and tolerance, because when I was in the Marines there was no way a First Sergeant would get away with racism, or get you discharged because he doesn't like you. I was a cannon-cocker, but I was the Battery Administration Chief for about two years, and the Battalion Mail Chief while in Okinawa, so I had quite a bit of exposure to what really went on in the First Sergeant's/CO's offices as-well-as what was going on in the battalion, and I never heard of that kind of crap going on.

I guess the Army's a different world.

[Daniel]

The Army is a much bigger place.

[E4 No More]

The Army is a much bigger place.

True, but regulations are regulations. If a CO is letting that kind of stuff happen then it's on his shoulders...well, in The Marine Corps anyways.

[trblmkr13]

True, but regulations are regulations. If a CO is letting that kind of stuff happen then it's on his shoulders...well, in The Marine Corps anyways.

In the Marine Corps you can leap Frog your CO and Request Mast all the way up to the CG

[rentalguy1]

It's still honorable, and nowhere near an OTH.

I've heard younger guys that were in the Army say things similar to what Glock30Owner said. I can only assume that the Army has different rules and tolerance, because when I was in the Marines there was no way a First Sergeant would get away with racism, or get you discharged because he doesn't like you. I was a cannon-cocker, but I was the Battery Administration Chief for about two years, and the Battalion Mail Chief while in Okinawa, so I had quite a bit of exposure to what really went on in the First Sergeant's/CO's offices as-well-as what was going on in the battalion, and I never heard of that kind of crap going on.

I guess the Army's a different world.

YA, it's treated exactly the same as a honorable discharge. It's more of a point that the regs allowed for me to get the HD, but because I still had over a year on my contract they gave me the GD. I'm not the one who requested to get out, either. I practically begged the MEB to let me stay, because I was getting better and stronger, but because of the nature of my MOS and assignment, they said no.

They do still have the uncharacterized discharge for those who cannot complete BCT/AIT and those who have a erroneous contract.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I have a BIL that "Proudly" showed me his 214 years ago and it said General, Under Less than Honorable Conditions.

In the notes it said personality and behavioral disorders....this dude was Proud of this:screwy:.....needless to say we have never got along.

ON T-day this year he starts telling me that he has been seen at the VA in Jackson?

Now I have told him many times that he can apply to have the thing upgraded.....I dont know if he did or not but from what he originally showed me he would not be getting any VA medical.

I mention this because he has told his wife many times that if anything happened to him to have him taken to the VA in Memphis. I have in private told her that from what I read he isnt eligible. DD-214 said 100 and something "teens" day service.....I always thought it took 180 minimum to get any benefits.

Now I do not know if he had the thing upgraded or not but I threw a statement in the conversation about how humbling it is to go into the VA main in Memphis since one has to go thru an orientation there to receive any care from any clinic.

He replied that he had been in there once....so maybe he did do the upgrade and orientation.....however I know him pretty well after 15 years and if one completes the orientation they are issued a VA ID which I would have expected him to show me as an "in your face' kind of thing but he never did.

So I wonder.....it is not that I care really about him personally but folks like him receiving care that maybe should not be are taking away from those who did serve Honorably and need the care.

Also he tells his boys that he worked on airplanes on an aircraft carrier....the DD-214 said he was in medical corp. man's school and didnt even have enough days service to complete the medical school much less the AT tech school, which IIRC for the Navy is nearly a year.

Now BIL's service was back in the 70's and I really have no idea how the younger ones discharges are handled these days. I know back then one had to screw up pretty bad to have a 214 that read like his.

As for the question on the HCP app.... IIRC it reads "Have you ever been discharged under anything other than Honorable". General or less than would result in a yes answer and it is my understanding that is an automatic dis-qualifier.

Is that fair?...I am not to judge that....Life itself is not "Fair"

It took 177 days for me to get my permit while holding a still active clearance with the government?....all over a mistake made in another state 20 years ago....I only applied for one after being injured in Iraq and realizing my martial arts skills would most likely hurt me more than the BG because of the injury.....was that fair? (the story of my HCP for any interested can be found in the My HCP sob story thread) I didnt start the thread but did add my story "after" I got my permit.

As for length of this post you folks should be getting used to me....if not ......You will. To borrow another's sig line from another forum "Why write a quick note when you can write a novel"

[rentalguy1]

I know a lot of guys that got GD's because of a PD back in the late-60's through the mid-80's. They did this to minimize the number of disability claims that they would have to approve. You do have to have 180 days in service to receive VA care, unless the disability was caused directly by service within that time frame. I just helped a guy win a claim that he has been fighting since 1968. He was in the Navy and suffered a violent attack by two other naval trainees who were high on drugs. The Navy completely bungled the investigation and this guy got a general under honorable via a MEB. The SPIN Code on his 214 listed a PD. That made it nearly impossible to get the actual severe anxiety disorder that the attack caused to be service connected. This poor guy has been a recluse since being discharged from the Navy at age 19. He lost his wife and daughters a few years later. Had not been able to hold a job, and was in constant fear of another attack. I spent weeks pouring through his SMR's, civilian treatment records, and other military records of the incident. I finally found the key phrases that he needed to show them. I had him pay out of pocket for a independent medical exam based on the VA's psychiatric compensation and pension exam worksheet, and then I wrote a rebuttal for him to send to the Board of Veterans Appeals. He had already been waiting for a hearing for some time, so a few months after all of this work, he got his appeal. It worked out great! The BVA gave him a full award of benefits sought. He got 70% for anxiety disorder with a effective date of the date of discharge in 1968.

If you guys are veterans, learn what all of those codes on your 214 mean. Get copies of all of your military records, especially the medical records. Keep a complete and up to date copy of all of your civilian medical records, too. You may not need them now, and you may feel that you don't deserve, or have not earned any comp from the VA, but you may change your mind further down the road. Many vets have injuries from their time in service, or end up with some God-awful disease or cancer from their time in service, and don't even realize the cause of it. Then, decades after discharge, it is nearly impossible to get not only compensation, but care at a VA hospital. You have to have a certain percentage of a service connected disability in order to receive care from the VA. If you don't, then you are placed in the lowest (numerically highest) priority group, and you will not receive care unless you are indigent.

I had my spine dislcocated at L5-S1 while in the Army. My quad got me to the flight surgeon within minutes, and they saved me from permanent paralysis, but a disease process set up in my spine from that day, and no one knew it. They automatically set me up with 30% disability upon my medical discharge, but 12 years later, the arthritis in my spine had caused central canal stenosis to the point where I suffered permanent nerve damage. My spinal cord had been choked off at 3 levels. It was a uphill fight, but I learned their laws and regs and finally won. What I'm saying is, if you need help with the VA, hit me up. I learned how to speak their language, and I can point you in the right direction if you need it.

[shortround]

As for the question on the HCP app.... IIRC it reads "Have you ever been discharged under anything other than Honorable". General or less than would result in a yes answer and it is my understanding that is an automatic dis-qualifier.

Actually it is 'discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions (dishonorable discharge, bad conduct discharge or other than honorable discharge)'. General (under honorable conditions) is not considered dishonorable, and is therefore eligible for HCP.

[Fred]

The TN DOS webpage hasn't been updated to reflect the AG opinion, but the apps wording has been changed.

http://tennessee.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2006/op/op109.pdf