Impartial

[DavidH1]

I started this thread so another one would not get:hijack:

I am impartial to the varying brands that are out there. There are good ones and bad. Speed and accuracy comes from the shooter and the weapon. It has been my experience the majority of weapons built today will out shoot the shooter 99 times out of a 100. Speed and accuracy comes with practice, for someone to be the best you would have to shoot every day.

A 9 mm is more accurate than a .45 period, But if you want to stop something dead in it's tracks, you can't beat a .45.

Glock makes a fine handgun, (I do not own one) but have shot many. I see so many arguments over which flavor of Koolaid is best. It all taste good, some, make it weaker than others:) Yes I love the 1911 .45 and it is a time proven weapon, is it better than a Glock, it depends who is holding it.

I have shot everything from zip gun, to a Browning .50cal, and I love them all. Glock, S&W, Kel-Tec and the many others that make light weapons have there niche. If you carry all day like Guards and LEOs you need something light and dependable. I carry a P226 and a Kimber .45 they are heavy at times.

DaveTN you asked about varying priced weapons, I believe in the other post. I own two Kimber's and have fired many other 1911's. The best I fired was one that came from WWII it was my Great Uncle's, it was a great pleasure to shoot, I was honored he let me shoot it, I was about 13. I have fired Les Brown, Dan Wesson(older one) Colt S&W you name it even a cheap Chinese knockoff that fired very well. It is what you like. Cheaper guns are made fast and attention to detail is some times lacking. Les Brown, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk and others in this class hand fit and pay GREAT attention to detail.

[Guest HexHead]

A 9 mm is more accurate than a .45 period

That's just nonsense.

[willis68]

That's just nonsense.

He must not be shooting the right .45's

[DavidD]

A 9 mm is more accurate than a .45 period,

I would have to assume you are speaking purely of trajectory at some pre-defined distance and not of weapons in those calibers. Either way, not a very impartial statement.....

Edited January 3, 2010 by DavidD
cant spell :)

[SkunkSlayer]

Compare: 9mm vs .45

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Edited January 3, 2010 by SkunkSlayer

[Guest Buzz87]

I would have to assume you are speaking purely of trajectory at some pre-defined distance and not of weapons in those calibers. Either way, not a very impatial statement.....

I believe he said his impartiality lies between brands, not calibers. He shoots .40,.45, and .380 mostly because that is what we own. He could really care less what kind of gun it is. He has shot MANY different brands and calibers and doesn't care as long as it goes pop,bang, or boom!

[Moped]

I had one of those cheap chinese knock-off .45acps. It was made by Norinco. Great Pistol. It got stolen about 4 years ago and I still miss it. I like cheap guns that are functional. I'm not one to keep up with the Jones.

And personally, I think the .45 is more accurate than a 9mm, but not by much. I think the accuracy thing is because they are harder to handle.

[trblmkr13]

I loved my 45's but mine 9mm's are cheaper to feed

[Guest BigShot]

He must not be shooting the right .45's

+1

[ftncityfatboy]

seems the 45 shooters have been identified. As I cannot attest the 9mm more accurate the 45, I believe accuracy is in the hand of the holder. Not to toot my own horn, but I believe I could shoot more accurate with my 9mm than shooters with the same experience as I using their 45's. As with anything, practice make perfect. The more you practice the better you become that's just the simple truth. Having said that, bullet placement and proper ammo is the name of the game. I am not one to get into a pissing contest about which caliber is best or what ammo is better, I believe the proof is in the shooting. BTW, if you are 90% accurate on the range, expect to be somewhere around 45% accurate in a real time incident. So now I wait for the bashing to begin.....

[ftncityfatboy]

Compare: 9mm vs .45

Federal Premium - Handgun Ballistics

Thanks for the link, however, these tests are done under carefully guides circumstances, correct wind, yardage, etc. As for the average joe, these stats mean chit. We are talking about the accuracy of shooters using 9mm as compared to those using 45's. Most of us don't shoot under perfect conditions therefore never achieving those results....bring it on boys

[DavidD]

Compare: 9mm vs .45

Federal Premium - Handgun Ballistics

Yes, these types of Manufacturer Balistic programs show that at "some" predified distance the OP's statemenrt could be true however one could argue doesn't accuracy really depend on the Shooter and/or weapon? Is the Cheap Eastern knockoff in 9mm going to me accurate than a .45 in a race gun? If you were shooting a .45 and I a 9mm, could I finally outshoot you?

I believe he said his impartiality lies between brands, not calibers. He shoots .40,.45, and .380 mostly because that is what we own. He could really care less what kind of gun it is. He has shot MANY different brands and calibers and doesn't care as long as it goes pop,bang, or boom!

I agree with the OP's entire post except for that one, bold statement. It is incorrect when used as pure fact (period) in my opinion. There are just too many other factors.

[DaveTN]

A 9 mm is more accurate than a .45 period,

That must be why in Bullseye competition everyone uses 9mm.

DaveTN you asked about varying priced weapons, I believe in the other post. I own two Kimber's and have fired many other 1911's. The best I fired was one that came from WWII it was my Great Uncle's, it was a great pleasure to shoot, I was honored he let me shoot it, I was about 13. I have fired Les Brown, Dan Wesson(older one) Colt S&W you name it even a cheap Chinese knockoff that fired very well. It is what you like. Cheaper guns are made fast and attention to detail is some times lacking. Les Brown, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk and others in this class hand fit and pay GREAT attention to detail.

You misunderstood. I have owned and carried on duty over a hundred handguns over the last 40 years. There is no doubt in my mind what is going to happen if we have a shoot off between Tupperware and 1911’s.

What I was saying in that thread was that we would need to find an expert shot (hard enough) but also someone that is impartial (probably impossible). I know that I’m certainly not impartial. I own and have owned several Tupperware guns, but they are carry guns they certainly are not competition guns. And I wouldn’t walk across the street to get a Glock if they were giving them away free; if I had to keep it. Therefore I couldn’t give it a fair chance. Hey I’m just being honest.

You couldn’t be impartial either; you just judged a firearm on nothing but emotion. In one paragraph you mentioned Kimber, Les Brown, Wilson Combat, and Nighthawk, but said the best was a WWII 1911your great uncle had. Was it better than those you mentioned? Heck no, you have got to be kidding me. You were 13 years old and didn’t know the first thing about a good handgun. It was a good emotional experience for you because your great uncle, whom you respected, let you shoot this weapon. Nothing wrong with that; but that doesn’t make it better than those others you mentioned.

You are correct when you say most of it is on the shooter. Dave Sevigny would outshoot me if I had a $5000 handgun. But I think he would be the first to say that if he was standing next to the top 1911 shooter and the top revolver shooter at a 50 yard bulls eye match; he is coming in last.

[Kano]

+1

+2

Edited January 3, 2010 by Kano

[Guest goomba]

I shoot what I have available. be it 40 or 45...I'm getting my first combat tupperware pistol. a glock 19, since its my first 9 I didnt include it above.

[SkunkSlayer]

Thanks for the link, however, these tests are done under carefully guides circumstances, correct wind, yardage, etc. As for the average joe, these stats mean chit. We are talking about the accuracy of shooters using 9mm as compared to those using 45's. Most of us don't shoot under perfect conditions therefore never achieving those results....bring it on boys

Try these to make make your shooting accuracy better for you.

Shooting Underwear - Try&Bom, Inc.

[DavidH1]

Here is what I meant by 9mm being more accurate than .45 At 10ft who cares, but out at a distance it matters. .45 is heavier and slower, it will fall off faster.

Edited January 3, 2010 by DavidH1

[LngRngShtr]

DaveH1 the 9 shoots flatter but accuracy would best be answered out of a machine rest or a test barrel fixture if grouping is your measure of accuracy...trajectory is a function of sight offset and compensates for falling off

Now concerning accuracy of out of the box "duty" guns it should be shot from same MFG. as some designs are more inherently accurate out of the box..

the National Matches are dictated by "What the services carry" this is why you see more 9mm being used and they will shoot accurately and no more .38SPL since the USAF discontinued issuing of the revolvers to flight crews or you would still see .38 wadcutter guns on the line..

a .38spl. S&W M52 was guaranteed 2" accurate to 50 yds. from the factory

a reworked 1911 .45 will do the same as will a reworked 9mm just visit the big Bullseye precision matches nobody shoots stock carry guns the carry division is for IDPA and USPSA and their accuracy requirements are a bit different as they have no reshoots due to malfunctiions but accuracy is still very important to them, a 6" plate @25 yards is tough after running 30 ft. and shooting 3 mags worthof ammo at 10-15 other targets...

Impartial ? let one of the ammo companies run these loads through their testing fixtures, a barreled action clamped onto a heavy bench no shooter to flinch just a firing pin and 50ft. 25 yds or 50 yds.

You could also contact BARSTO and ask them what the potential accuracy for these calibers are with their barrels

Shootability,.. now thats the great debate I see here with "a .45 shooter can shoot a 9 straighter than a 9 shooter can shoot a .45..." that boils down to how recoil sensitive a shooter is and if their gun fits them..

my 5" limited gun and my 2 6" open guns fit me very well and it won't matter if it is a .45 a 10mm or a .38 Super that gets sent downrange I am sure it will go where it is told... the S&W 52 doesn't fit as well but with a bit more work on my part it will tear out a 10 ring at 50 ft. and rested will still shoot 2" @ 50 yds. same with the Browning Medalist which is a lowly .22LR

I have seen "Super Squad" shooters do amazing things with their raceguns,.. I have seen Bullseye guns shoot a ragged one hole group and it didn't bother the shooters as to what caliber it was I even saw a 64 year old man out shoot a 32 year old A class IPSC shooter on a rack of 5 steel plates...with a Colt SAA in .45LC back before all the cowboy action shooting got going because he recognized his gear and what it would do and the other fellow figures sixguns were slow enough he could miss a few..he walked off the line learning that they don't score misses

John

It is all good and this is why we all have our favorite calibers,..they work for us,...and those that don't,.. well they work for others.. as long as we don't delude ourselves by thinking our pet is the "Hammer of Thor" or the only answer to a given shooting problem it isn't a problem

[Guest Buzz87]

Water is wet.

[DavidD]

Try these to make make your shooting accuracy better for you.

Shooting Underwear - Try&Bom, Inc.

Dude, I won't even ask why you had that link.....

[ftncityfatboy]

Try these to make make your shooting accuracy better for you.

Shooting Underwear - Try&Bom, Inc.

i must not understand the sarcasism....

Here is what I meant by 9mm being more accurate than .45 At 10ft who cares, but out at a distance it matters. .45 is heavier and slower, it will fall off faster.

anything over 40 feet in real life situation is irrelevant. If you have to shoot at something at 100 feet, you have time to retreat and take cover. Although a 9MM fan, the chart you show means very little past 40-50 feet.

[DavidD]

.....Although a 9MM fan, the chart you show means very little past 40-50 feet.

I agree. If the OP had said the 9mm has better velocity or trajectory we wouldn't be having this discussion however "more accurate, period" leaves lots of room for debate.

Edited January 4, 2010 by DavidD

[Guest CK1]

Stella Artois is much better than Budweiser, but since I'm impartial, I've been known to drink both.

[Guest CK1]

Period.

[Metalhead]

Guinness is the hoss. However, as I cant get Guinness in Greenbrier as easily, Coors light is the awsome. Period.