Estimating range

[Guest nosnos]

I've been really interested in rifle shooting lately, and have been trying to figure out the trajectory of my AR. I have finally settled on zeroing at 50 yards, which I believe gives me shots that hit approximately 1 inch low at 25 yards and 5-6 inches high at 100 yards. I came to this conclusion totally unscientifically, so maybe somebody can tell me if my numbers are WAY off.

My question is, what techniques do you all use to estimate range when shooting? It seems like a good survival skill to have (am I in the right forum?)... I'd love to be able to have a rough idea so I can make a guess as to where to put my sights... Does this make sense or am I way off base here?

I've been doing some figuring, and someone tell me if I'm wrong or there is a simpler way.

My eotech has a 65MOA circle. According to Wikipedia 1 MOA = 1 inch at 100 yards. So the circle of the eotech would be 5 and a half feet at 100 yards?

How do y'all do this? Or do you just not worry about it?

[Mike.357]

if I have to estimate yardage I compare to a football field or what I remember from guessing distance on a golf course.

Of course if setting up targets you can always pace it off on the way back to the firing line. My pace is about 2.5 feet. Count steps and multiply.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I've found that at 75 yards my singing of "I'm a Good Ole Rebel" drowns out Mike.357's loud ass yankee accent and I can then adjust my fire from there.

[Mike.357]

I've found that at 75 yards my singing of "I'm a Good Ole Rebel" drowns out Mike.357's loud ass yankee accent and I can then adjust my fire from there.

That would be "damn" yankee accent

[Guest nosnos]

Thanks! Ha ha... I've been thinking about this question WAY too much today. I think it stems from being stuck at work instead of out shooting. I need an afternoon with a tape measure and I'll come up with some good ideas. All I can find online is long-range kind of stuff. I'm more interested in being good and precise within 100 yards. But my booger hook is still the biggest problem I've got.

[Mike.357]

if it is really driving you nuts there are commercially available range finders for purchase. I do not know costs, but doubt they are outrageous. They work off lasers I think. Might look into that.

[Guest SUNTZU]

That would be "damn" yankee accent

Oh, I'm a good ole rebel, now that's just what I am...What'd you say, Mike? Can't hear ya.

[Wingshooter]

I got a laser range finder this year, and that has helped me a great deal in estimating my yardages. I thought it would have the opposite effect by training me to rely on the device, but I use it to backup my estimates. I carry it with me when I am out in the field, and I will routinely "test" my estimating skills. I got it primarily for bow hunting, but I use it a lot more than intended.

Edit:

I got the Nikon Pro Staff range finder for $200. It displayes a digital readout down to the 1/2 yard and out to 550 yards. They make cheaper and more expensive versions. Many will display accurate yardage to 1000+ yds. Having this rangefinder has really opened my eyes to my yardage estimates.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Batman

[LngRngShtr]

I've been really interested in rifle shooting lately, and have been trying to figure out the trajectory of my AR. I have finally settled on zeroing at 50 yards, which I believe gives me shots that hit approximately 1 inch low at 25 yards and 5-6 inches high at 100 yards. I came to this conclusion totally unscientifically, so maybe somebody can tell me if my numbers are WAY off.

My question is, what techniques do you all use to estimate range when shooting? It seems like a good survival skill to have (am I in the right forum?)... I'd love to be able to have a rough idea so I can make a guess as to where to put my sights... Does this make sense or am I way off base here?

I've been doing some figuring, and someone tell me if I'm wrong or there is a simpler way.

My eotech has a 65MOA circle. According to Wikipedia 1 MOA = 1 inch at 100 yards. So the circle of the eotech would be 5 and a half feet at 100 yards?

How do y'all do this? Or do you just not worry about it?

What kind of rifle shooting are we talking about ? CQB training/3-gun or reaching out a little ?

if you are zeroed @ 50 yds you will be high @ 100 but I am not thinking by 5 " maybe 2 or 3 at the most and you would also have a downrange intersection or "secondary zero" as the bullet crosses the line of sight on the way down maybe 200 yds or so.. it depends on the ammunition used Military ball vs. commercial vs. handloads from the sticky in the long guns forum:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/long-guns/12498-improved-battlesight-zero-m4-m16-ar15.html

here is the ranging part... you have to know what parts of your sight cover what @ a known distance get a notebook and start recording your dope

DOPE = Data Of Previous Engagements as in anything that happens when you shoot your rifle so you can reference what YOUR rifle does next time a shot like this one comes up...

Say I have a scope with a Duplex Reticle that the center crosshairs cover 12" @ 100 yds. thats 12 @100 or 12 MOA roughly at 200 it should be about 24"between the thick posts in either direction

now lets say I see a target that I know stands 10" tall (paint can)which measures from center to thick post so it would be about 90 yds. or a 6 ft. (an old door used as a target backer) my scope center hairs touch the door at top and bottom so it is about 600 yds. out

this is the same principal the Mil-Dot works on.. known marks in scope

Your Eotech 65MOA would ring a target 65" tall @ 100 yds. is it just a ring or does it have a center dot ? the dot in the center would help at longer ranges if it is smaller say a 5 MOA or something that size

MOA = 1.074 inches but is usually rounded for closer ranges it works out to a difference of about .74" @ 1000 yds.

I would Zero the Eotech @ 50 yds due to the lack of longrange precision aiming of the device, it is designed for close in work up to 100 yds. but for longer distances maybe a good 3-9 variable and zero at 100 and work a set of drop tables..

John

Edited January 2, 2010 by LngRngShtr
found a link describing battle zero

[Guest nosnos]

Wow! Thanks for the helpful reply. It gave me a lot to work from.

There is a 1 MOA dot in the middle of the circle. It's an AR-15 with a 16" barrel. I mostly want to shoot <100 yards. I just want to be able to guess really well where I'll be hitting. Thanks for the explanation of DOPE. I plan on taking better notes and being more careful my next range visit. I'm new to rifle shooting and man, it's fun!

So, will 1 MOA be half an inch at 50 yards? It seems reasonable that it would, just wanting to double check...

[LngRngShtr]

yes 1 MOA is 1/2" picture a cone that goes from your muzzle downrange and gets 1.074" wider every 100 yds.

OK 1 MOA dot.. now you have a reference.. so a .223 ammo box is say 3"x6" the dot will cover its height @ 300 and width @ 600 if you can see that well..don't know if the eotech has magnification or not but magnification has its own formuals to figure out if you rangefind with a scope

a 1MOA group has all the rounds in a 1" circle @ 100 yds. 2" @ 200 yds. on and on 10.75" @ 1000 yds.

You will stop guessing with practice and your rounds should hit "behind the dot"

I am only repaying a lesson given to me by passing it on so I give you this information with the same price,... if in the future you see a new shooter needing help with a problem.... Pass It On

John

[DaveTN]

All I can find online is long-range kind of stuff. I'm more interested in being good and precise within 100 yards.

I mostly want to shoot <100 yards. I just want to be able to guess really well where I'll be hitting.

So, will 1 MOA be half an inch at 50 yards? It seems reasonable that it would, just wanting to double check...

The difference at 50 yards with a 100 yard zero would only be about a bullet diameter.

[Guest nosnos]

The difference at 50 yards with a 100 yard zero would only be about a bullet diameter.

Not sure I follow you... I'm noticing about a 3-4 inch difference in point of impact between 50 yards and 100 yards. I'm zeroed at 50. At 100 they're hitting roughly 3 inches up. Shooting .223...

[Guest SUNTZU]

Not sure I follow you... I'm noticing about a 3-4 inch difference in point of impact between 50 yards and 100 yards. I'm zeroed at 50. At 100 they're hitting roughly 3 inches up. Shooting .223...

What's the grain on the round you are using?

[DaveTN]

What's the grain on the round you are using?

And what is the height from the bore axis to the scope axis?

[Guest SUNTZU]

This thread has the potential to be very educational. Subscribed.

[LngRngShtr]

The millitary round will do that so it can fall back to a 200 yard secondary zero

add to it the effect of sight height offset and yep about 3" or so then it drops back to Line Of Sight at 200 yds.

lets say barrel is 1.5 inches below line of sight so to get to 50 yds. zero we angle the barrel up relative to line of sight,.. the bullet passes line of sight first @ 50 yds. rises up to around 3" at mid range of 100 yds. for our discussion then due to the constant of gravity and a smidge of losing velocity "falls" relative to our line of sight to intersect our line of sight again at 200 yds. then continues to arc down until it finds a backstop.

now if we zero @ 100 yards. the bullet will still be travelling up relative to our line of sight and hit low @ 50 yds. and high @ 200 yds. with a secondary intersection downrange as it drops relative to our line of sight..

simply put.. zero @ 100 yds. put the dot on anything out to 130yds. or so and send it..all things being equal the dot will cover your bullet path from 25 yds. to 130yds. closer than 25 yds. and sight offset dictates you will hit up to 1 1/2" low .

The best thing to do is if you have a range is try this...set up several targets from 20 to 100 yds. with the same target and after zeroing @ say 100 yds. shoot 3 rounds at each distance target holding the same sight picture... then there is no guessing,no doubt as to what that ammo is doing no "but the book says it should be.." no "I thought for sure it would have.." just cold hard factual holes in paper...

The center of each group will give you a good idea of where the rounds will center on as long as you do your part (sight control,breathing proper,trigger control and follow through) you can then go back and figure your zero offsets to rezero at a given yardage (DOPE note) this will be good for that load each load may differ so you get to test a few if you have a few different brands of ammo but then it may be a confirmation of single rounds instead of burning up 3 rounds per distance..

Now this won't be very apparent at closer distances with a .223 or a .30 cal rifle but it will be a start to see greater elevation variances use a .22 LR or a handgun

Hope this is helps....

John

Edited January 3, 2010 by LngRngShtr

[Guest nosnos]

I'm shooting 55gr .223 FMJ out of a 16" barrel AR. It's an eotech mounted right onto a flattop upper, no riser, so I'm going to say maybe 2 inches from bore axis to sight axis?

I recognize that an eotech is not a target shooting device per se, but rather a CQB type of optic, which is why I have chosen the less conventional 50 yard zero. It seems to make sense to me, because it yields acceptable results between 20 to 50 yards. It's just out at 100 that I feel the need to compensate for bullet rise or whatever the technical term would be that I'm compensating for. ha ha....

This thread has helped me feel better that I'm getting typical results. At first I was thinking that from 25 to 100 yards 4 to 5 inches of vertical rise was abnormal. I feel better now... Thanks!

All this talk and research has made me want to get into real precision shooting. I can see that it could be addicting. And also really freaking expensive. For now I'm just going to try to get what I've got to be consistent. I'm still fairly certain my breathing and trigger finger need more work.

By the way, LngRngShtr, I'm assuming by your extremely helpful responses that your screen name is not short for long range shi**er.

[DaveTN]

I'm still fairly certain my breathing and trigger finger need more work.

That’s easy to determine. Shoot for groups. Aim at the same point each time and don’t “chase†or compensate for where they impact. Don’t even try to see them or have anyone tell you where they hit, concentrate on the point you are aiming at. You have to have a tight group, doesn’t matter where it is. Once you can do that, you can worry about sight adjustment and ballistics.

[Guest nosnos]

That's what I'm doing. Unfortunately, the groups just aren't as tight as I think my rifle is capable of.

[LngRngShtr]

Nosnos to answer the paragraph you wrote...

All this talk and research has made me want to get into real precision shooting. I can see that it could be addicting. Yes it can be and frustrating at the same time..

And also really freaking expensive. A .22LR "trainer" rifle or air rifle that is accurate will make it less expensive now, reloading your own ammo will make it economical later... trigger time is trigger time but remember "garbage in/garbage out" make every shot count..learn from as many shots as you can..

For now I'm just going to try to get what I've got to be consistent. Consistency breeds accuracy,success and will amaze your shooting buddies break it down to component pieces and work on individual skills,.. nobody starts out 10 for 10 on a 100 yard gong offhand in a crosswind..

I'm still fairly certain my breathing and trigger finger need more work. It will all get better with time and dry firing,trigger finger first, then breathing,then sight alignment then etc.

I was lucky and had several serious shooters at my gun club when I was a junior shooter and somehow I was smart enough to listen and learn and get into some league shooting where they could coach me "right then and there" and correct me as needed..Even after all that teaching I have much more to learn that process should never end and will constantly evolve..and I wish I had taken better notes

Remember there are a lot of ways to get an "X" what works for one shooter may not work as well for another open mind, take notes, try something if it works keep it if not ..file it in notes for maybe later use as you evolve as a shooter...

John

[enfield]

I forget range and aim for the head. If I hit 'em in the foot it's still good.

[Guest clownsdd]

if I have to estimate yardage I compare to a football field or what I remember from guessing distance on a golf course.

If I am shooting on the golf course, I use my SkyCaddie!

[Guest nosnos]

I forget range and aim for the head. If I hit 'em in the foot it's still good.

In my case I'm zeroed at 50 yards, so I might overshoot if I aim for the head and they're at 100 yards. I guess I should just start aiming for the throat....

[DaveTN]

In my case I'm zeroed at 50 yards, so I might overshoot if I aim for the head and they're at 100 yards. I guess I should just start aiming for the throat....

How big is his head?

I don’t shoot .223 in rifle but my software tells me that a 55 gr .223 zeroed at 50 yards will hit less than an inch high at 100. (.6 to .7â€)