strange news story

[Guest archerdr1]

I was watching the news and it seems a man at a lounge was getting out of hand and pulled a knife on the owner when he tried to kick him out. When the man pulled the knife, the owner pulled a gun and shot him in the neck. I say, Good job lounge owner, but then I hear them say that the man that pulled the knife was being charged with aggravated assault and the owner was also being charged because "He did not have a permit and his gun was not registered". Now, that struck me as odd because I thought that in Tennessee: 1. we do not have to register guns, 2. The store owner/person in charge does not have to have a permit in that establishment, and 3. I thought that if acting in defense of life/limb, you are protected from criminal/civil prosecution. Did I get that wrong? Why would they be charging him for defending himself and patrons?

[56FordGuy]

I believe that you would be correct. I'd chalk it up to the news folks being wrong. Maybe they're misinformed about the laws, or maybe there's more to the story than they initially reported.

[TripleDigitRide]

No worries, Voldemort is going to straighten everything out.

[Guest archerdr1]

thanks guys. I thought I was right, but that story made me wonder if some crazy legislation has been passed under the radar like seems to be happening in this country a lot lately. How is Voldemort straightening everything out? Don't even think I know who he is!

[56FordGuy]

How is Voldemort straightening everything out? Don't even think I know who he is!

That was a joke, see below for a reference on Kwik.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/general-off-topic/32087-tennessee-gun-ownerss-favorite-village-idiot-again.html

[Photoguy67]

I don't mean to doubt you as I didn't see the news report, but are you sure it wasn't in another state like California or Illinois etc...?

[Guest archerdr1]

wow, that guy is what I would call "Nucking Futs!

[Guest archerdr1]

I don't mean to doubt you as I didn't see the news report, but are you sure it wasn't in another state like California or Illinois etc...?

nope, it was in Alton Park (if there is any area where a lounge owner should be armed, it is definitely there). I will see if I can find a link to the news story.

[Guest archerdr1]

news channel 3 had the story with the most up to date account. Man Shot at Chattanooga Bar - WRCB Channel 3 Chattanooga News, Weather |

[Guest archerdr1]

UPDATE 6PM

A Christmas party was coming to an end at the 45th Street Lounge in Alton Park when police said Marcus Boston, refusing to leave, pulled a knife on the club owner, 50-year-old Michael Knox.

Knox told officers Boston drank too much that night and became unruly as the party let out around 2AM.

Boston was taken to Erlanger and treated for his injuries.

Knox was arrested because his gun wasn't registered, but claims the ordeal was self-defense.

Saturday our camera was there as Knox returned to the bar to clean up inside.

Declining to comment on camera, Knox said off camera 23-year-old Boston should not have been in the bar in the first place.

The sign posted outside, reads "All patrons must be at least age 25."

Police say this isn't the first time Boston has had a run in with the law.

The owner tells Eyewitness News there was security present at the party that night and that in the three years of owning the business he has not had any problems.

Now charges are pending against both parties.

CHATTANOOGA (WRCB) -- The owner of a Chattanooga bar says he shot a man in self defense.

Police say the shooting happened at 2:30am Saturday at the 45th Street Lounge located at 210 West 45th Street. The owner of the bar, Michael Knox, 50, shot a customer who was refusing to leave and reportedly pulled a knife.

The victim, Marcus Boston, 23, was transported by EMS to Erlanger for treatment of his non-life threatening gunshot wound to the neck. He told investigators he didn't want to prosecute for the incident.

[Guest mikedwood]

Yeah that's strange, very strange.

They can charge you for carrying a cup of coffee in your own home if they want to. Doesn't mean it will stick or make it to court, doesn't mean the officers themselves won't get in trouble or laughed at as the case my be.

Yeah the registration thing is odd.

[Sean S.]

With whom are you supposed to register your gun in TN?

[Guest archerdr1]

someone on City_data.com said you have to register it with the sheriff's office, here's the link. gun (sale, how much, home) - Tennessee (TN) - City-Data Forum but then another post on the same page said you do not have to register it.

[Guest archerdr1]

everything else I see says there is no registry in TN. which is what I am inclined to believe.

Edited December 27, 2009 by archerdr1

[Punisher84]

Now, that struck me as odd because I thought that in Tennessee: 1. we do not have to register guns, 2. The store owner/person in charge does not have to have a permit in that establishment, and 3. I thought that if acting in defense of life/limb, you are protected from criminal/civil prosecution. Did I get that wrong?

There is no gun registration in TN. PERIOD. As far as #3 goes there is nothing in the law that protects you from criminal/civil prosecution completely. There are 2 laws that you are thinking of.

39-17-1322 Defenses-A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim.

That is merely a defense. Doesn't say you can't be charged and prosecuted.

and part of the "Castle Doctrine" law that went into effect states that you cannot be held liable in a civil suit if you are not found criminally liable and the court will award all reasonable attorney's fees, etc that you should incur if someone does bring a suit against you.

You can always be charged and you can always be sued however.

[Guest archerdr1]

thanks for clearing that up, I think I will write to the news tomorrow to make sure they got it right, but that guy should have a pretty good case on his behalf.

[Guest bkelm18]

It's possible the guy is being charged with an actual crime, just the news people are completely FUBAR'ing it and calling it an unregistered gun.

[G27]

Possibly a sawed-off shotgun that's too short with no tax stamp (registration)?

[Fallguy]

You are dead wrong on this. If you shoot someone you are going to either be sued criminally by the victims family or may even wind up in jail for a short time or a long time.

I think you mean sued civily....any criminal charges would be up to the state.

In addition to 39-17-1322 as posted above by Punsiher84 there is 39-11-622 that says if you are sued and the shooting is ruled justified, those that brough the suit must pay all your cost in defending the suit. So one would hope if it was a clear cut case of SD no respectable lawyer would take the case.

But the TN supreme court has said 39-17-1322 doesn't automaticlly prevent you from being arrested. Also no law can block someone's access to the court, that is 39-11-622 only provides relief if you are sued and can not prevent you from being sued.

With criminal charges being filed in this case...it is probably not so clear cut.

Depends each county is different. I bought a new gun in oak ridge and went by the city, and anderson county sheriffs department to register it. They said we do not register them anymore if you have a carry permit carry away if you do not you can have it at home no questions asked.

I admit I'm not 100% sure, but I would think 39-17-1314 (the preemption law) would forbid any local government from requiring firearms to be registered. I haven't heard of any county/city requiring registration since 1989 at least.

I do remember prior to that having to get the sheriff of your county of residence to sign some form to be able to purchase a firearm and they may have recorded it also....but not in the last 20 years at least.

It wouldn't be the first time a news agency got something just totally wrong.

[Fallguy]

Sent an e-mail to Mike Andrews, Website News Producer/Supervisor of WCRB suggesting that they check further on the charges against Mr. Knox.

[Guest archerdr1]

Thanks fallguy. and, Alpha7, I lived in Highland Park about 8 years ago. I was in College at TTU... slept with my gun and my Rottweiller. I knew all of the leo in the area, didn't have a permit at that time, but was told by all of them to carry when I took my nightly strolls.

[macville]

There is no county that requires reg of firearms because they can not by TN law. Even NFA items aren't "registered" with the state, they are done with the Feds.

Matthew

[Garufa]

Depends each county is different. I bought a new gun in oak ridge and went by the city, and anderson county sheriffs department to register it. They said we do not register them anymore if you have a carry permit carry away if you do not you can have it at home no questions asked.

You really did that? Are you 31 or 81?

I'm sorry but that's just funny. If you bought a new gun whoever you bought it from should have cleared that up for you.

Many, many, many years ago there was some type of registration with local PD's, I think, but may be wrong (you'd have to ask someone really, really old).

[rentalguy1]

Does the castle doctrine still apply to the owner of a bar, where alcohol is served? I know it would in his home, but I'm not sure about inside the bar.

[Fallguy]

Does the castle doctrine still apply to the owner of a bar, where alcohol is served? I know it would in his home, but I'm not sure about inside the bar.

It depends on what you mean exactly...

39-17-1305 says the owner of the bar can have a firearm in his posession.

As far as what you are probably thinking....the presumption that he acted in self-defense would not apply in this case since the guy with the knife did not forciblly or illegaly enter the bar.

But let's say it was after closing and a guy broke in on the owner while he was still there doing the books, then yes, the presumption could apply. It wouldn't make a difference if it was your house, a bar or a car dealership.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Fallguy