Gangs: What would YOU do to clean them up?

[DaveTN]

I wish all these folks would leave their religion out of any discussions. That crap is why I don't believe in religion or should I say denominations. I believe in God. Maybe not like some of you but I believe none the less. Religion is one of the worst concepts man ever invented. Unbelievable amount of death and manipulation in the name of religion. What's wrong with just doing as good as you can and doing the right thing as much as you can? I don't care what you believe, you really don't "know" nothing till you're gone. I prefer to stay away from power trippers and their arrogance.

Religion was brought into the discussion because we were talking about murder. You really can’t make decisions about murder without religious beliefs being involved.

[Guest db99wj]

I disagree. We are talking about a group of people that do not get to enjoy the freedoms of the average citizens.

Being a cop is a choice, you are held to a higher standard. If you have bad credit many departments won’t take you. If you have a divorce do to your infidelity many departments won’t take you. If you have a problem with drugs or alcohol most departments won’t take you. Is it fair? Sure it is. You are going to make judgment calls on citizens.

My discretion was taken away on DUI in the 80’s. No breaks for DUI. No sending someone home in cab, no allowing someone else to drive, no allowing them to park the car, arrest was the only option. Why? Because the pressure put on law enforcement by MADD and the insurance companies worked. I saw people’s lives ruined and their careers ended because of DUI arrests. I saw young people’s dreams shattered because of DUI arrests. I’m suppose to watch that happen and think it’s okay that a cop gets a second chance; a cop that should have know better than anyone the consequences? I don’t; it’s not okay.

Anyone here that is familiar with my posts knows that I’m one of the first to jump in when a cop comes under fire for making a mistake. Mistakes are made by cops every day. Mistakes are things like not knowing every law that is the books or making a mistake in what they think they are seeing, or having a Judge disagree on what they thought was probable cause for a search; those are mistakes. Firing up a joint, sticking a straw up your nose or a needle in your arm, or crawling behind the wheel of a car when you know your BAC is beyond the legal limit; is not a mistake. It is a crime; a career ending crime. If you want to give them a break and send them to rehab; fine. But just like some citizens; they need to find a new line of work when they come out.

Also a cop’s credibility is destroyed when they have been convicted of a crime. It can be brought up in every trial they testify in; it goes to credibility.

By my statements I do not mean to imply that cops are better than anyone else. But the reality is that they are held (by the public and by most of the departments I have experience with) to a higher standard.

Reread my post. I even state that is a choice to get in the vehicle and go for a drive, my point of the comment, is the DUI and drug abuse is not a disease part. While the DUI part is not the disease, the drinking is part of it, and really, this discussion isn't talking about the disease part, it is the choice part. In other words, I would agree 100% with what you said, if you left it at the DUI and Drug Abuse are choices.

And not put in the not a disease, because it very well could be. Am I clear? Cause I'm confused now!

[Guest Jamie]

You really can’t make decisions about murder without religious beliefs being involved.

Sure you can.

Killing someone without proper cause is just plain wrong, no matter what religious beliefs you do or don't have.

Now, as to what is or isn't a "proper cause"... well, the details of that are generally determined by the society one happens to live in. And even then, it's not always religious beliefs that set the standard.

( You don't get a "pass", for instance, for beating your wife or kids to death, here in the U.S., just because your particular religion says it's okay. )

BTW... Religion was also brought into the thread because someone wanted to equate being moral or immoral with holding a particular religious belief.

J.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Jamie

[DaveTN]

Sure you can.

Killing someone without proper cause is just plain wrong, no matter what religious beliefs you do or don't have.

Now, as to what is or isn't a "proper cause"... well, the details of that are generally determined by the society one happens to live in. And even then, it's not always religious beliefs that set the standard.

( You don't get a "pass", for instance, for beating your wife or kids to death, here in the U.S., just because your particular religion says it's okay. )

BTW... Religion was also brought into the thread because someone wanted to equate being moral or immoral with holding a particular religious belief.

J.

“Proper cause’ sets the standard for the individual person. Society and the legislature can do what they like; but the individual doesn’t have to agree with it. That is why if you are a potential juror in a death penalty case they will ask you if you can vote for a conviction if you know the penalty is death.

[Guest grimel]

$1000 bounty on anyone pictured flashing gang signs or sporting gang tats.

Texas use of force laws carried a step farther - defense of property legal in the daytime and ZERO civil penalties if no criminal conviction.

No carry permits and no place off limits.

Legalize drugs, set up free to the users drug cafes all the heroin, meth, crack they want for free. Tax pot at the current tobacco tax rate.

Anyone found guilty of a gang related crime - death penalty.

[Guest spoolie]

$1000 bounty on anyone pictured flashing gang signs or sporting gang tats.

Texas use of force laws carried a step farther - defense of property legal in the daytime and ZERO civil penalties if no criminal conviction.

No carry permits and no place off limits.

Legalize drugs, set up free to the users drug cafes all the heroin, meth, crack they want for free. Tax pot at the current tobacco tax rate.

Anyone found guilty of a gang related crime - death penalty.

Finally...someone that agrees with me.

[Guest Drewsett]

Legalize drugs...ummmmm...yeah..right...

So let's say that marijuana and a few other drugs get 'legalized'. Where are people going to use these legal drugs? Can we be assured that they are only going to use them in the privacy of their own home and not leave until they wear off? I for one am not willing to bet my life on an increased percentage of irresponsible drug users driving around, operating heavy machinery on the job, operating on me in a hospital, and so on.

"That wouldn't happen!" you say. Yeah? How do you figure? How would you monitor it? How would you enforce it? How many new laws would we need for different degrees of infractions? Kill someone with your car while toasted? "Mmmeh, no big deal". Amputate the wrong limb while jacked up? "Awww, it happens all the time with sober doctors anyhow, what's the problem?"

And what about HCP? Can't drink while carrying, but now lighting up or popping a pill will be ok? "No" you say? Well...who's going to monitor and enforce all of this? It would be impossible.

DWI - Driving while Intoxicated (you can be intoxicated on more than alcohol) so that takes care of the driving bit. As far as everything else is concerned...it isn't okay to drink on the job, why would it be okay to smoke pot on the job? You seem to have this mental image of "REEFER MADNESS" where just one taste will have our entire population whacked out on pot all the time. I know alot of people who smoke ( I do work in the restaurant biz...and I am around musicians alot as well), and frankly the ones who smoke are better decision makers than my friends that drink.

And as far as HCP is concerned...I would imagine we would monitor and enforce it the same as we do for alcohol...its not hard to tell if someone has been smoking, not to mention they have saliva based tests that are near-instantaneous so they could stock those along with a breathalyzer...

[mcurrier]

DWI - Driving while Intoxicated (you can be intoxicated on more than alcohol) so that takes care of the driving bit. As far as everything else is concerned...it isn't okay to drink on the job, why would it be okay to smoke pot on the job? You seem to have this mental image of "REEFER MADNESS" where just one taste will have our entire population whacked out on pot all the time. I know alot of people who smoke ( I do work in the restaurant biz...and I am around musicians alot as well), and frankly the ones who smoke are better decision makers than my friends that drink.

And as far as HCP is concerned...I would imagine we would monitor and enforce it the same as we do for alcohol...its not hard to tell if someone has been smoking, not to mention they have saliva based tests that are near-instantaneous so they could stock those along with a breathalyzer...

Employees are crying for their smoke breaks now as it is. I can see them really balling for it. Yes, I do envision reefer madness. Each time something is decreased to a lesser degree of severity, we get further and further to complete anarchy. Step by step. Closer and closer. Eventually, EVERYTHING will be 'legal'. It's like termites and embezzlement. It happens in small bits, tiny increments, and at first is hard to noticed. But one day you wake up and wonder how you got to that place.

[Guest Arko]

Finally...someone that agrees with me.

I never said I don't agree. I'd love to form posse's and sweep them up, but I was wondering what potential practical/workable solutions anyone had. I doubt we'd be allowed to go your way!