Gangs: What would YOU do to clean them up?

[Guest Jamie]

Here's where you will see a huge difference between the older and the very young. When you're my age, or older, tatoos represent the ultimate in bad decision making.

First of all, most of us are Christians or Jews, and Leviticus 19:28 clearly condemns the practice "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD" (can't be more clear). So the thinking is that if you clearly and blatantly defy your god for perpetuity, you're probably not of good moral character.

Secondly, mostly younger people get "tats" and have relatively low incomes, as opposed to us. Tattoo are not cheap. So, in escence we see that one has made a financial sacrifice, mabe even a necessity, for something that is frivolous. We tend to call that bad decision making.

We, of the older generations actually believe in a true right and a true wrong and usually base these things on our faith. Unfortunately, the younger generations are taught a kinder and gentler faith. One that has no absolutes, even when there is scriptural evidence to the contrary.

I normally wouldn't go into this on this site, but you asked.

I got your back on this one, Jack.

Well, being 46, and neither Christian nor Jew... or much of anything else for that matter... and having a couple of good-sized tattoos... I have to say "Speak for yourself".

Also, about 3/4 of the LEOs I know have tats.

Oh, and I worked at an American Legion post for a while, back in my younger days. Care to guess at how many of the old codgers that frequented there had tattoos?

I don't recall the first one of 'em claiming they were a mistake. Most just saw them as reminders of old memories.

So... No more of that "we" stuff, okay?

J.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

I don't have a problem with marijuana being legalized just because of its pain aleiviating properties but not any other drugs. But I tell ya, reading all these post just reaffirms a previous post. This sh*t is not going to get better and has gone too far. I don't see no fixing of much of anything at this point. I'm not sure the human is gonna be "wise" (notice I didn't say smart) enough to survive this pickle we're in.

[mcurrier]

Legalize drugs...ummmmm...yeah..right...

So let's say that marijuana and a few other drugs get 'legalized'. Where are people going to use these legal drugs? Can we be assured that they are only going to use them in the privacy of their own home and not leave until they wear off? I for one am not willing to bet my life on an increased percentage of irresponsible drug users driving around, operating heavy machinery on the job, operating on me in a hospital, and so on.

"That wouldn't happen!" you say. Yeah? How do you figure? How would you monitor it? How would you enforce it? How many new laws would we need for different degrees of infractions? Kill someone with your car while toasted? "Mmmeh, no big deal". Amputate the wrong limb while jacked up? "Awww, it happens all the time with sober doctors anyhow, what's the problem?"

And what about HCP? Can't drink while carrying, but now lighting up or popping a pill will be ok? "No" you say? Well...who's going to monitor and enforce all of this? It would be impossible.

[tntnixon]

Well, being 46, and neither Christian nor Jew... or much of anything else for that matter... and having a couple of good-sized tattoos... I have to say "Speak for yourself".

Also, about 3/4 of the LEOs I know have tats.

Oh, and I worked at an American Legion post for a while, back in my younger days. Care to guess at how many of the old codgers that frequented there had tattoos?

I don't recall the first one of 'em claiming they were a mistake. Most just saw them as reminders of old memories.

So... No more of that "we" stuff, okay?

J.

The kid just asked how it was a moral issue, so I told him.

I made a general statement that never referenced anyone specifically. This is just the reason why most (not all) of our mothers and grandmothers told us not to get tattoos. Most of the older ladies actually did believe in something and tried to pass that on to us as children. A few of us (actually a lot of us), continued those beliefs into adulthood.

[Guest Jamie]

The kid just asked how it was a moral issue, so I told him.

It's only a moral issue from a certain... particular... religious perspective though.

I grew up in an "old" family.... lots of Great Uncles, Great Grandparents and Grandparents living, while I was young... One great grandfather having fought in WWI, Grandfather and great uncles having fought in WWII, Korea, and even Vietnam... Quite a few had tattoos. Most held at least some Christian belief. Not the first one would judge a person based on a little ink under their skin. The same goes for their mothers, sisters, and wives.

I made a general statement that never referenced anyone specifically.

It's the generality of your statement that I hold in contention... for the simple reason that, in my own experience, it's just not true.

This is just the reason why most (not all) of our mothers and grandmothers told us not to get tattoos. Most of the older ladies actually did believe in something and tried to pass that on to us as children. A few of us (actually a lot of us), continued those beliefs into adulthood.

I didn't get my first tattoo until I was in my mid 30s... but only because my first wife had a problem with 'em. And no, she was not even slightly religious. pretty much an atheist, as a matter of fact.

I got the tattoo done as soon as she was out the door. Partially because I just wanted it, and partially to make sure she didn't come back.

Oh, and that legion post I mentioned working at? Saw quite a few older ladies in there with a bit o' ink here and there.

So, a general statement falls flat here, since it's a matter of perspective and experience.

Personally, I think anyone who'd judge somebody amoral because they have a tattoo is just being shallow and narrow-minded.

J.

[Smith]

It's only a moral issue from a certain... particular... religious perspective though.

I grew up in an "old" family.... lots of Great Uncles, Great Grandparents and Grandparents living, while I was young... One great grandfather having fought in WWI, Grandfather and great uncles having fought in WWII, Korea, and even Vietnam... Quite a few had tattoos. Most held at least some Christian belief. Not the first one would judge a person based on a little ink under their skin. The same goes for their mothers, sisters, and wives.

It's the generality of your statement that I hold in contention... for the simple reason that, in my own experience, it's just not true.

I didn't get my first tattoo until I was in my mid 30s... but only because my first wife had a problem with 'em. And no, she was not even slightly religious. pretty much an atheist, as a matter of fact.

I got the tattoo done as soon as she was out the door. Partially because I just wanted it, and partially to make sure she didn't come back.

Oh, and that legion post I mentioned working at? Saw quite a few older ladies in there with a bit o' ink here and there.

So, a general statement falls flat here, since it's a matter of perspective and experience.

Personally, I think anyone who'd judge somebody amoral because they have a tattoo is just being shallow and narrow-minded.

J.

Kinda like someone who judges people shallow and narrow minded because they disagree with them? At least he had the conviction to state his belief, why he believes it, and the logic of how he arrived at it.

I always love these pointless off topic attempts to put people in their place because they make a judgement call by ........ making judgement calls. Ironic isn't it? Just sayin.

He believes what he believes, you don't. If your so convinced your right why get so bent out of shape? Right is right, wrong is wrong. Either you are or you aren't and it isn't going to matter what someone else says or believes if you are right. Not being mean just trying to save you some emotional turmoil.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Why the he** don't they know that? Shouldn't a background check including any and all arrest whether this state or another be performed? And if they don't, then screw the police dept. 'cause they've let stupidity reign. Common sense has become rarer than God sightings.

[Guest Jamie]

Kinda like someone who judges people shallow and narrow minded because they disagree with them? At least he had the conviction to state his belief, why he believes it, and the logic of how he arrived at it.

Again, I have no problem with him personally believing tattoos are moral/immoral/a sign of mental retardation/whatever. It's his contention that the "older generation" thinks/believes a given way that I have a problem with.

Besides... it's that "older generation" that came back from wars and such and brought tattoos to the rest of us.

Anyway, who's the more moral? The good Samaritan with the full body tattoos that pulls you out of your burning car, or the non-tattooed drunk who ran into you and cause the crash in the first place? Which to do you think God or anybody else is gonna look the most favorably on?

I always love these pointless off topic attempts to put people in their place because they make a judgement call by ........ making judgement calls. Ironic isn't it? Just sayin.

Y'know, it's always cracks me up that people will say "don't judge" to every one, then, the minute one'a their kids makes a bad decision, or hangs out with the "wrong" people, they get all over 'em for having "poor judgment".

He believes what he believes, you don't. If your so convinced your right why get so bent out of shape? Right is right, wrong is wrong. Either you are or you aren't and it isn't going to matter what someone else says or believes if you are right. Not being mean just trying to save you some emotional turmoil.

Well, I'm not "bent out of shape"... at least not yet... though the Bourbon in my glass may soon change that... But again, pay attention here: I don't give a ***** what he personally believes... just don't pack that belief off on an entire generation or age group.

Oh, and one parting shot concerning religion and tattoos... then it's back to figuring out what to do about the gang bangers:

RELIGIOUS TATTOOS

J.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Jamie
Fixing quote tags....

[TripleDigitRide]

A War on Gangs?

I see no point in starting another war that we can't, won't, or have no intentions of winning.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Now that was one heck of a discussion.....!

What was the question...?

Oh yea Gang Bangers....What to do....?

1. Situational Awareness

2. Hand gun carry permits

3. Handguns

4. Practice with handguns

5. Prayers

Thats all I got.

I do wish I had "the" answer but I just dont

[Guest spoolie]

I'm a broken record....

[Guest Arko]

Wow. You work and sleep a few hours and a thread goes off the rails...

Tattoos? Immoral? Huh. Guess I better get my butt to a church pronto....

[Guest Jamie]

Wow. You work and sleep a few hours and a thread goes off the rails...

Tattoos? Immoral? Huh. Guess I better get my butt to a church pronto....

Why, is your butt tattooed?

... on second thought, don't answer that... pretend I didn't even ask....

J.

[Guest jackdm3]

Three days ago, this went to print. I hope the rest of the state understands our plight. Especially DaveTN.

Boozing officers to get second chance The Commercial Appeal

Don't forget to read the comment about Piperton. Case closed.

Edited December 22, 2009 by jackdm3

[trblmkr13]

Just because they don't follow the law doen't mean they can't enforce and shouldn't they have less consequenes as a job perk?

[Guest db99wj]

Just because they don't follow the law doen't mean they can't enforce and shouldn't they have less consequenes as a job perk?

Actually I hope you are kidding. LEO's should not be above the law, they should be an example of the law, on and off duty, and they should have the same consequences as the rest of us when they break the law.

I'm one of the biggest LEO supporters on here, but what you said should be the furthest from the truth.

[Guest jackdm3]

We also have lovely HIV+ lawyers biting off people's noses! Ya'll come on down!

Memphis attorney sued for allegedly biting off portion of man's nose The Commercial Appeal

[trblmkr13]

Actually I hope you are kidding. LEO's should not be above the law, they should be an example of the law, on and off duty, and they should have the same consequences as the rest of us when they break the law.

I'm one of the biggest LEO supporters on here, but what you said should be the furthest from the truth.

I was trying to lay the sarcasm on pretty thick

[Guest db99wj]

I was trying to lay the sarcasm on pretty thick

Just making sure, the lack of these guys, ;), made it difficult to interpret!

[DaveTN]

Three days ago, this went to print. I hope the rest of the state understands our plight. Especially DaveTN.

Boozing officers to get second chance The Commercial Appeal

Don't forget to read the comment about Piperton. Case closed.

Wow… that’s sad. The citizens of the state of Tennessee and especially Memphis should be outraged.

Police Officers are held to higher standard, which is just understood; it goes with the job.

DUI and drug abuse are choices; not a disease. Overlooking a minor offense prior to becoming a cop is one thing; allowing it and putting a stamp of approval on it after they are cops is criminal.

But hey, look at the bright side… now all the cops that are fired by other departments can move to Memphis. That should allow him to keep the pay scale down.

If you are appalled by this; I agree with you. I also predict that this policy won’t last long, especially if the national media decides to grab on to it.

[Guest jackdm3]

We would totally embrace such national attention.

[DaveTN]

We would totally embrace such national attention.

Make it happen.

[Guest db99wj]

Wow… that’s sad. The citizens of the state of Tennessee and especially Memphis should be outraged.

Police Officers are held to higher standard, which is just understood; it goes with the job.

DUI and drug abuse are choices; not a disease. Overlooking a minor offense prior to becoming a cop is one thing; allowing it and putting a stamp of approval on it after they are cops is criminal.

But hey, look at the bright side… now all the cops that are fired by other departments can move to Memphis. That should allow him to keep the pay scale down.

If you are appalled by this; I agree with you. I also predict that this policy won’t last long, especially if the national media decides to grab on to it.

I agree, sad story. I do not agree with what I bolded. There is a choice to drink and drive, there is a choice to do drugs, some, especially on the drinking drive, don't suffer from alcoholism or drug addiction. However, there are many out there, that have chemical dependency issues, and it is a disease, whether the mental side or addiction, or the physical side, physical diseases caused by said abuse. But even if there is a addiction disease present, the choice to jump in the car and go for a drive is still a choice.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

I wish all these folks would leave their religion out of any discussions. That crap is why I don't believe in religion or should I say denominations. I believe in God. Maybe not like some of you but I believe none the less. Religion is one of the worst concepts man ever invented. Unbelievable amount of death and manipulation in the name of religion. What's wrong with just doing as good as you can and doing the right thing as much as you can? I don't care what you believe, you really don't "know" nothing till you're gone. I prefer to stay away from power trippers and their arrogance.

[DaveTN]

However, there are many out there, that have chemical dependency issues, and it is a disease, whether the mental side or addiction, or the physical side, physical diseases caused by said abuse.

I disagree. We are talking about a group of people that do not get to enjoy the freedoms of the average citizens.

Being a cop is a choice, you are held to a higher standard. If you have bad credit many departments won’t take you. If you have a divorce do to your infidelity many departments won’t take you. If you have a problem with drugs or alcohol most departments won’t take you. Is it fair? Sure it is. You are going to make judgment calls on citizens.

My discretion was taken away on DUI in the 80’s. No breaks for DUI. No sending someone home in cab, no allowing someone else to drive, no allowing them to park the car, arrest was the only option. Why? Because the pressure put on law enforcement by MADD and the insurance companies worked. I saw people’s lives ruined and their careers ended because of DUI arrests. I saw young people’s dreams shattered because of DUI arrests. I’m suppose to watch that happen and think it’s okay that a cop gets a second chance; a cop that should have know better than anyone the consequences? I don’t; it’s not okay.

Anyone here that is familiar with my posts knows that I’m one of the first to jump in when a cop comes under fire for making a mistake. Mistakes are made by cops every day. Mistakes are things like not knowing every law that is the books or making a mistake in what they think they are seeing, or having a Judge disagree on what they thought was probable cause for a search; those are mistakes. Firing up a joint, sticking a straw up your nose or a needle in your arm, or crawling behind the wheel of a car when you know your BAC is beyond the legal limit; is not a mistake. It is a crime; a career ending crime. If you want to give them a break and send them to rehab; fine. But just like some citizens; they need to find a new line of work when they come out.

Also a cop’s credibility is destroyed when they have been convicted of a crime. It can be brought up in every trial they testify in; it goes to credibility.

By my statements I do not mean to imply that cops are better than anyone else. But the reality is that they are held (by the public and by most of the departments I have experience with) to a higher standard.