Gangs: What would YOU do to clean them up?

[Guest Jamie]

I agree with you 100% and have always said that our founding fathers would roll over in their graves if they knew how we have used their words to tie the hands of cops today. Except, I don’t think they would be stringing anyone up without a trial.

Untie the hands of the Police and turn them loose.

All I'm advocating is "stringing up" the guilty instead of making excuse for 'em, turning them loose, etc., and not punishing the innocent when they're forced to deal with those "guilty".

Well, that and putting the "hurry up" on the whole trial/appeals process.

The death penalty shouldn't mean "execution by old age" after all.

J.

[Guest jackdm3]

"Untie the hands of the Police and turn them loose. "

You must have cool cops in the middle area, but I can't say that about Memphis. I've seen cops in full dress visiting my store with three day growth. I've seen a cop at a Winchester Rd. parking lot selling his several boxes of new sneakers and a collection of vacuumpacked steaks out of his vehicle. To a prospective buyer, he said "That's prime rib, dawg!"

Not sure I'll give the cops around here carte blanche with my streets.

[DaveTN]

A while back, after a long period of threats against a citizen, a couple of (self-identified) gang bangers attempted to run over him on the street. The citizen defended himself with a firearm. A prosecutor kept him in jail for a couple of years before the trial - where the jury found him innocent. The gang burnt his house down, he lost his job and everything he owned. This is justice? This is due process?

No, the Prosecutor failed in his job and should be held accountable. The Prosecutor and the state should have to buy him a new home, and replace everything he lost.

(I have no idea what case you are talking about; my comments are just based on what you are posting.)

[trblmkr13]

I watch Gangland. And I watched the episode on Nashville where the bang banger was bragging about how he just enjoys shooting people. Why is he not a target of the cops, why is he out walking around?

I watched that episode as well and have the same question, the guy is obiviosly no criminal genius

[DaveTN]

"Untie the hands of the Police and turn them loose. "

You must have cool cops in the middle area, but I can't say that about Memphis. I've seen cops in full dress visiting my store with three day growth. I've seen a cop at a Winchester Rd. parking lot selling his several boxes of new sneakers and a collection of vacuumpacked steaks out of his vehicle. To a prospective buyer, he said "That's prime rib, dawg!"

Not sure I'll give the cops around here carte blanche with my streets.

It sounds like in Memphis they have Cart Blanche already; or at least that cop thought he has. What did you do about it when you saw it?

[Guest db99wj]

Due process does work, IF it was used appropriately, but that is an issue, the numbnutz that run the legal system, the PC, protection of rights groups have watered down the process, they have butchered it so that it is close to being useless as it stands. Another problems is it doesn't stop there. The prison system is a joke, if they don't have tv, they don't get an education, if they don't get internet access, if they don't get this that and a dozen other things, we are violating their rights. Prisons work, just not what we have today. Make prison what it use to be, make them work for the expense it takes to keep them, cut out all the **** and the expense goes way down. I struggle to pay my cable bill, I shouldn't have to foot the bill for a murder, or other convicted felon. In other words, the theory of our system works, but it is broken.

I tell ya what, I take all that I have said back, lets put together death squads to hunt these bastards out, lets drive them to an isolated area and use chemical weapons, or anything else in our arsenal and kill them all, bury them in a pit afterwards and bulldoze the dirt on top of them.

[Guest jackdm3]

Aren't we a sort of Gang?

I would say yes, if by that you mean a group of likeminded individuals that form a brotherhood-from-another-motherhood.

[poak]

I watch Gangland. And I watched the episode on Nashville where the bang banger was bragging about how he just enjoys shooting people. Why is he not a target of the cops, why is he out walking around?

Yeah, thay guy "Gordo" is apparently looked upon as a joke by the police. I hear he's just a big talker. Remember when he was talking about his choice weapon?

Gordo: "Glock forty."

Then asked why he likes it

Gordo: "Cause it's big, it's just big."

WTF?

Also, remember how he served a year after being pulled over and found with firearms, a large amount of marijuana, baggies, scales, and materials they thought were to be used for a kidnapping?

My guess on the short sentence would be he started singing like a bird once the cuffs went on.

[Guest reaper1880]

first kill the politicians, then kill most of the lawyers, then kill all the gang members no matter what age . if they ar ten and gang signs and tats kill them all more oxygen for me and the rest of us

[Guest jackdm3]

It sounds like in Memphis they have Cart Blanche already; or at least that cop thought he has. What did you do about it when you saw it?

We were driving past and it took a minute to register. By then, we were way down the road. I don't know if he was allowed to sell from the back of a cruiser. Seemed suspicious when he quickly dropped the meat a little to his side when he saw us. I realized that almost every cop in Memphis complains about the hours and pay, and they sometimes have three jobs.

Seemed lowly behavior regardless.

[Mark@Sea]

The incident I referred to happened in south Florida. Unfortunately, there is no recourse, you cannot sue the prosecutor, even in very clear cut cases of misconduct - what we'd call criminal behaviour.

Statistically, error rates in shootings are much higher for police than they are for joe average. I don't advocate giving police special powers to deal with gang members. Quit pushing 'politically correct' witch hunts and let common sense side with joe.

Hmmm, a guy with a huge rap sheet gets his check canceled by a guy who maybe had a couple speeding tickets the last ten years? Self defense claimed? Well, what can we charge him with? Was it really self defense, or could the victim have avoided the incident? Heck, lets' throw the book at him and see if anything sticks.

Seems like there are two different standards applied in court - if it is a known criminal, the jury is instructed that if there is any possibility he isn't guilty, he must be released. With Joe, if there is any possibility that he is guilty, he must be convicted.

Thats' BS, it happens all the time, and it is the biggest bar to stopping real crime.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Mark@Sea

[Guest jackdm3]

first kill the politicians, then kill most of the lawyers, then kill all the gang members no matter what age . if they ar ten and gang signs and tats kill them all more oxygen for me and the rest of us

Wow! He gets right to it, doesn't he? Practices economy of the written word.

[Guest Jamie]

Due process does work, IF it was used appropriately, but that is an issue, the numbnutz that run the legal system, the PC, protection of rights groups have watered down the process, they have butchered it so that it is close to being useless as it stands.

So, in other words, it DOESN'T work.

It could, but it doesn't.

Which to me, says it's time to try something different. Something that does work....

J.

[Guest Arko]

Our justice system was originally envisioned to prevent punishment of the innocent. It would work well in that regard, if it weren't for prosecutors and police who are determined to get a conviction at all costs, in order to further their career.

Gang members aren't innocents. They are an evident threat. Killing, robbing - that's what they do.

A while back, after a long period of threats against a citizen, a couple of (self-identified) gang bangers attempted to run over him on the street. The citizen defended himself with a firearm. A prosecutor kept him in jail for a couple of years before the trial - where the jury found him innocent. The gang burnt his house down, he lost his job and everything he owned. This is justice? This is due process?

I'm with Jamie. Catch 'em in the act, hang 'em on the spot. Don't hammer the guy who defended himself.

Personally, I'm a very believing person. You tell me you're going to come by and kill me sometime? I believe you. Thus I have no problem with shooting you dead on the spot. Self defense.

I'm with Mark here. IMO, criminals like gang bangers don't deserve the same process the rest of the citizenry enjoy. They are predators, plain and simple. I don't know how to reconcile that with how the system is set up, or even the Constitution, but I also think the Constitution has been bastardized, and the founding fathers would have a coronary to find so much protection for those scum that are so obviously a danger to all they contact.

I'm all for process, but when it comes to someone with a 22 page sheet that evidences their predictable future actions, can't "due process" be a little more cut and dry? Can't we agree that if they ARE convicted of some multiple of violent crimes that we could institute a severe punishment rather than serving 2-5 for a damn murder?

[Guest db99wj]

We were driving past and it took a minute to register. By then, we were way down the road. I don't know if he was allowed to sell from the back of a cruiser. Seemed suspicious when he quickly dropped the meat a little to his side when he saw us. I realized that almost every cop in Memphis complains about the hours and pay, and they sometimes have three jobs.

Seemed lowly behavior regardless.

Should have gotten his number, at least the car number, and turned him in. I don't care if they work a 2nd or 3rd job, but they have to do it on their own time, not while on patrol.

I drive into, through and out of bad parts of Memphis all the time going to industrial areas of Memphis and other commercial properties as part of my job, and never have I seen any unprofessional behavior from MPD. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I have not witnessed it, I would say I go more places in and around Memphis, than most.

[Guest db99wj]

So, in other words, it DOESN'T work.

It could, but it doesn't.

Which to me, says it's time to try something different. Something that does work....

J.

The "process" does work, we need to fix the people running it is my point. No need in reinventing it, improve it, make the people running it, run it correctly and the way it was intended.

[Guest jackdm3]

This was in the early 2000's, but I don't expect the MPD stepped up their game since then. We used to require two years of college to join, but not anymore. If you dumb down the level of the force, you get what you get. I know of a little twig with multiple DWI's that's getting to graduate. Sigh.

[DaveTN]

I know of a little twig with multiple DWI's that's getting to graduate. Sigh.

Then they don’t know that; turn him in.

[Guest jackdm3]

Sidenote/addendum: This was at the Winchester Malco with LOTS of people, back when Winchester was one of the places to be.

[Guest Jamie]

The "process" does work, we need to fix the people running it is my point. No need in reinventing it, improve it, make the people running it, run it correctly and the way it was intended.

But you can't fix people. You can only kill 'em or leave 'em alone, and hope they leave you alone as well.

You say the process does work, it's just that it doesn't work with the people running it.

I say that since we're likely always going to have the same/same sort of people running it, that a new system is required, since the one we have won't work with those people in charge of it. One is needed that they can't screw up or make not work.

The real problem is that there's no such system.... and certainly not one that those afore-mentioned people are going to allow to be put in place. :-\

J.

[Guest jackdm3]

Then they don’t know that; turn him in.

Suspect cops are frequently allowed in into the MPD. It's a different world over here. I've seen cops talk about others having had various non-violent offenses. Like small amounts of drugs or shoplifting offenses in their teens. A Piperton cop pulled me over with full-armsleeve tattoos. I could go on ...

[Guest db99wj]

But you can't fix people. You can only kill 'em or leave 'em alone, and hope they leave you alone as well.

You say the process does work, it's just that it doesn't work with the people running it.

I say that since we're likely always going to have the same/same sort of people running it, that a new system is required, since the one we have won't work with those people in charge of it. One is needed that they can't screw up or make not work.

The real problem is that there's no such system.... and certainly not one that those afore-mentioned people are going to allow to be put in place. :-\

J.

What do you suggest? Trashing of the constitution? Trashing of all the things that made this nation a great super power? By all means, if you have any better ideas that are in the realm of possibility, which doesn't include kill them all, run a campaign on it, I'll vote for you.

[Guest Muttling]

Aren't we a sort of Gang?

Absolutely NOT!!!!!

TCA 40-35-121(a)(1) - "Criminal gang" means a formal or informal ongoing organization, association, or group consisting of three (3) or more persons that has:

(A) As one (1) of its activities the comission of criminal acts; and

( Two (2) or more members who, individually or collectively, engage in or have engaged in a pattern of criminal gang activity

We as a group discuss the laws and how use our weapons/defend ourselves while still complying with the law. Gang has a requirement of criminal activity and that is something we as a group try to very hard to avoid.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

Legalize drugs. No money/cost in drugs, no motive for crime. Take away their "Freelance Pharmaceutical Distributor" jobs. End of the problem, overnight.

Like guns, anyone that wants drugs can get them. It is a big sick joke, wishful thinking that you can keep people from doing anything simply by making it illegal. If you don't see this, your thinking machinery is defective.

[DaveTN]

Suspect cops are frequently allowed in into the MPD. It's a different world over here. I've seen cops talk about others having had various non-violent offenses. Like small amounts of drugs or shoplifting offenses in their teens. A Piperton cop pulled me over with full-armsleeve tattoos. I could go on ...

You can apply to most departments with a misdemeanor arrest. But most will not accept you.

I have no knowledge or experience with MPD, but I’m calling on a multiple DUI offender being allowed. THP just played that game in the media. They were brought under fire for having Troopers that had a single DUI from 10 or 15 years ago. Hiring someone that shoplifted or had a bag of weed as a kid and has since went straight is a whole lot different than hiring a multiple DUI offender (or even a single DUI). They are an enormous liability if the department knows it.