Gangs: What would YOU do to clean them up?

[Guest HexHead]

How would you know how I am thinking? My way is not being tried.

I don't know, which is why I made that a question and not a statement.

[DaveTN]

Can you think of a better way to detour it? They obviously do not mind being locked up in prison, hell that just makes them stronger. If there was a Death penalty for being a Gang member and it was imposed immediately, it would not only save millions of dollars but would put an end to this crap once and for all. It sounds like a damn good answer to me

I have no doubt it would work. I also have no doubt it will never happen.

“Kill them all let God sort them out†makes us no better than them.

If you are accused of a crime, all evidence is presented to the jury. All statements, evidence, previous criminal records, everything. If a jury decides something was obtained improperly; they can disregard it. They would also have the authority to sanction, fine, suspend or fire Police Officers that they determine have intentionally violated an innocent persons rights. If you are found not guilty the state will pay your defense costs.

We get Judges that will interpret the Constitution in the sprit it was written. Not to protect criminals, but to protect innocent citizens.

Yes, gang bangers do not fear going to prison, many young people know they will go at some time. Prisons will be a place no one wants to go to. They will be cells with no TV, no basketball playing or weight lifting.

In the case of jail or prison overcrowding no violent offender will be paroled or get an early release while a single non-violent offender is in custody.

It may be a bold stand, but at least it doesn’t bring us down to their level.

[willis68]

I have no doubt it would work. I also have no doubt it will never happen.

“Kill them all let God sort them out†makes us no better than them.

If you are accused of a crime, all evidence is presented to the jury. All statements, evidence, previous criminal records, everything. If a jury decides something was obtained improperly; they can disregard it. They would also have the authority to sanction, fine, suspend or fire Police Officers that they determine have intentionally violated an innocent persons rights. If you are found not guilty the state will pay your defense costs.

We get Judges that will interpret the Constitution in the sprit it was written. Not to protect criminals, but to protect innocent citizens.

Yes, gang bangers do not fear going to prison, many young people know they will go at some time. Prisons will be a place no one wants to go to. They will be cells with no TV, no basketball playing or weight lifting.

In the case of jail or prison overcrowding no violent offender will be paroled or get an early release while a single non-violent offender is in custody.

It may be a bold stand, but at least it doesn’t bring us down to their level.

I agree a prison should be just that, no TV, entertainment and complete isolation unfortunately I don't see this happening anytime soon it seems they are given more comforts being locked up then some good people have in society. My wife has a good idea, she suggests that a bounty should be paid to Gang bangers for taking out other gang bangers they would eliminate each other for money I have no doubt, something has to be done this is getting out of hand.

[Mark@Sea]

“Kill them all let God sort them out†makes us no better than them.

Moral relativism rears its' head.

No, that approach doesn't make us "no better than them". Killing in self defense isn't murder, either - and not seeing the difference is a large part of why we are where we are today.

Unless you're making the case that gang members aren't a danger to us, and gang activity isn't a danger to our society, that sentiment is the dumbest thing I've heard today. Of course, the day is young...

[DaveTN]

Moral relativism rears its' head.

No, that approach doesn't make us "no better than them". Killing in self defense isn't murder, either - and not seeing the difference is a large part of why we are where we are today.

Unless you're making the case that gang members aren't a danger to us, and gang activity isn't a danger to our society, that sentiment is the dumbest thing I've heard today. Of course, the day is young...

I can kill someone that is an immediate threat to me and go eat lunch; I have no problem with it. But what is being suggested here is murder. Sorry if you think that is dumb.

I have moral and religious values that keep me from killing someone that is not an immediate threat. But that’s just me personally; I don’t expect you to share them.

[Guest Jamie]

But what is being suggested here is murder.

Seems to me that what's being suggested is ending a threat. Maybe not an eminent, personal threat, but a threat just the same.

Put me firmly in the "Kill the bastards. Kill enough of 'em that the rest are too afraid to even be suspected of being connected with a gang" category.

And if you wanna think that makes me no better than them, fine. However, I seriously doubt you ever have to worry about me car jacking you, breaking into your house, stealing anything from you, or killing you just because I can.

J.

[Guest db99wj]

I believe in due process more.

[Mark@Sea]

Hey, got a couple kids and a nest of copperheads under the steps? Well, be sure and kill only the ones that are about to strike, 'cause killing them all would be wrong.

[Guest Jamie]

I believe in due process more.

The problem being that Due Process isn't working and they (the gangs) know it. They have nothing to fear from the law, since the law has no real teeth.

J.

[DaveTN]

Put me firmly in the "Kill the bastards. Kill enough of 'em that the rest are too afraid to even be suspected of being connected with a gang" category.

Who is going to do this killing? Are you going to go shoot bang bangers on sight? Or will Metro have an elite unit to do the killing? Do we just disregard the jury system all together? Short of vigilante drive bys I’m not sure how you guys intend on doing this.

[Guest Jamie]

Who is going to do this killing? Are you going to go shoot bang bangers on sight? Or will Metro have an elite unit to do the killing? Do we just disregard the jury system all together? Short of vigilante drive bys I’m not sure how you guys intend on doing this.

How 'bout try 'em, then when they're convicted, hang 'em? In public. No appeals.

Oh, and also pass a law removing any and all penalties for killing a gang member who's in the process of committing any crime.

That work for you?

J.

[Mark@Sea]

Due Process is the process whereby the gang member (IF he gets caught), after killing your wife at the ATM, or your kid in a driveby, takes a 2 to 5 stretch. Unless it gets plea bargained away, or the jury is intimidated.

Due Process is the process where a guy with a rap sheet 4 pages long gets released back to the community, and kills again within a few days. Thats' tragic, but thank heaven his civil rights were upheld. Too bad about the victims' civil rights, but hey, thats' due process for you.

As far as shooting 'em on sight, its' just too bad there isn't some means of identifying them. Some telltale marking, or clothing, perhaps...

Edited December 21, 2009 by Mark@Sea

[Guest jackdm3]

Does an "Elite Unit" really exist? That would mean they make no mistakes; hence, "Elite."

But that's off topic.

[DaveTN]

Good grief I thought the liberal criminal huggers would start rippin' on me and quoting Jefferson and Franklin. You guys make me look pretty passive.

[Guest Jamie]

Good grief I thought the liberal criminal huggers would start rippin' on me and quoting Jefferson and Franklin. You guys make me look pretty passive.

I'm fairly sure both Jefferson and Franklin would be fetching the rope themselves, to deal with what we've allowed to happen, if they were still alive today. Neither of those two strike me as being anything but practical, when it comes to dealing with this sort of problem. And "practical" doesn't involve coddling, or making excuses for someone's behavior.

J.

[Guest Drewsett]

I wouldn't call myself a liberal criminal hugger, so to speak, but I do very much believe in due process of law. I would far rather let a hundred guilty men walk free than incarcerate one innocent person. If the law has the kind of "teeth" some of you are advocating we will live in more of a police state than we do already. The last time I went to Greece they were dealing with street gangs and their solution was to put an mp5-armed policeman on EVERY street corner in Athens. The two weeks I was there I believe there were 5 innocent people gunned down because of misunderstandings.

Give the police that much power and watch the rest of your liberty dissappear

(and to the cops on here, I'm not a LE basher, I just believe in limiting the power of all government entities, police included).

Edited December 21, 2009 by Drewsett
grammar/spelling

[willis68]

Do any of you watch Gangland? I do and when the Bangers on there brag about what they do, what process in necessary? they admit and boast about the crimes that they commit those are the one's that that I was referring to, where it is NOT a question about innocence or quilt

[Wrangler]

Aren't we a sort of Gang?

[DaveTN]

I'm fairly sure both Jefferson and Franklin would be fetching the rope themselves, to deal with what we've allowed to happen, if they were still alive today. Neither of those two strike me as being anything but practical, when it comes to dealing with this sort of problem. And "practical" doesn't involve coddling, or making excuses for someone's behavior.

I agree with you 100% and have always said that our founding fathers would roll over in their graves if they knew how we have used their words to tie the hands of cops today. Except, I don’t think they would be stringing anyone up without a trial.

Untie the hands of the Police and turn them loose.

[willis68]

Aren't we a sort of Gang?

why, do you commit crimes, robbery, rape, murder and brag about it? How is a group of responsible law abiding citizens who choose to believe in their right to own firearms in any way confused with a gang banger???

[Guest Jamie]

I would far rather let a hundred guilty men walk free than incarcerate one innocent person.

Even if one of those hundred kills your kid, rapes your wife, or beats your mother to death for her social security check?

Sorry, but in this instance, I'm afraid my vote is that the one innocent person ( who probably isn't so innocent, if their behavior put them in the situation to begin with ) gets to "take one for the team".

Or is one innocent life really that much more valuable than the possibly hundreds of others you sacrifice by letting the 100 guilty go free?

Seems like simple math, to me... but then I guess I'm just not a "nice guy" when it comes right down to it.

J.

[DaveTN]

Do any of you watch Gangland? I do and when the Bangers on there brag about what they do, what process in necessary? they admit and boast about the crimes that they commit those are the one's that that I was referring to, where it is NOT a question about innocence or quilt

I watch Gangland. And I watched the episode on Nashville where the bang banger was bragging about how he just enjoys shooting people. Why is he not a target of the cops, why is he out walking around?

[willis68]

I watch Gangland. And I watched the episode on Nashville where the bang banger was bragging about how he just enjoys shooting people. Why is he not a target of the cops, why is he out walking around?

that is a great point Dave, that is what makes me sick I just do not understand if they are not allowed to pursue these people or think they have bigger fish to fry

[Mark@Sea]

Our justice system was originally envisioned to prevent punishment of the innocent. It would work well in that regard, if it weren't for prosecutors and police who are determined to get a conviction at all costs, in order to further their career.

Gang members aren't innocents. They are an evident threat. Killing, robbing - that's what they do.

A while back, after a long period of threats against a citizen, a couple of (self-identified) gang bangers attempted to run over him on the street. The citizen defended himself with a firearm. A prosecutor kept him in jail for a couple of years before the trial - where the jury found him innocent. The gang burnt his house down, he lost his job and everything he owned. This is justice? This is due process?

I'm with Jamie. Catch 'em in the act, hang 'em on the spot. Don't hammer the guy who defended himself.

Personally, I'm a very believing person. You tell me you're going to come by and kill me sometime? I believe you. Thus I have no problem with shooting you dead on the spot. Self defense.

[DaveTN]

I wouldn't call myself a liberal criminal hugger, so to speak, but I do very much believe in due process of law. I would far rather let a hundred guilty men walk free than incarcerate one innocent person. If the law has the kind of "teeth" some of you are advocating we will live in more of a police state than we do already. The last time I went to Greece they were dealing with street gangs and their solution was to put an mp5-armed policeman on EVERY street corner in Athens. The two weeks I was there I believe there were 5 innocent people gunned down because of misunderstandings.

Give the police that much power and watch the rest of your liberty dissappear

(and to the cops on here, I'm not a LE basher, I just believe in limiting the power of all government entities, police included).

I’m a former cop and I don’t think you are cop bashing. Look at my post #52. I am not suggesting that cops act with immunity. I am suggesting that a jury sees all the evidence and makes decisions based on everything that happened. Juries need to seek the truth, and to do that they need to have all the information.

I don’t know what happened if Greece but if cops kill innocent people they would have to answer to a jury.