Gangs: What would YOU do to clean them up?

[Guest Jamie]

What do you suggest? Trashing of the constitution? Trashing of all the things that made this nation a great super power?

Seems to me those things are all but gone, as it is.

By all means, if you have any better ideas that are in the realm of possibility, which doesn't include kill them all, run a campaign on it, I'll vote for you.

Wish I did, but as I said earlier: "The real problem is that there's no such system.... and certainly not one that those afore-mentioned people are going to allow to be put in place. :-\"

Anyway, the OP asks what would YOU do... and I've stated my preferences there. Never said I expected anybody else would go along with 'em.

J.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

To the libertarians, if you just go for legalizing pot and regulating it and taxing, you have just empowered politicians more. I don't know about you but I would rather stop illegal immigration with force at the borders. The gangs should be dealt with with force. also. If anyone is hanging around with gangs they are too stupid to have us worrying about collateral damage. If a parent can't or won't encourage their children

to behave properly in society, they run the risk of their children getting caught up in criminal activity. Those parents are scum and might as well be treated as criminals, also.

There is way too much incentive for liberals, or progressives(communists) to let this behaviour persist. It's what is killing this country. That's what they want: hope and change. If the ballot box can't change it, then it will lead to spilling a lot of blood. I'm really tired of letting a politician act like a conservative just to get elected then become the liberal he or she really is. If 2010 doesn't neuter Obama and his liberals,

I'll be worried a lot more than I am now.

[Guest HexHead]

Who is going to do this killing? Are you going to go shoot bang bangers on sight? Or will Metro have an elite unit to do the killing? Do we just disregard the jury system all together? Short of vigilante drive bys I’m not sure how you guys intend on doing this.

I'd already suggested we hire the private contractors when we've pulled out of Iraq. Turn them loose on the gangbangers and drug dealers with no impediment of having to arrest them. See a gangsta hanging on a street corner dealing drugs? Just take him out. Don't bother using the police, they're too programmed to arrest them and read them rights.

I thought we had this "war on drugs" thing going on?

Besides, Serpas wants the police out giving speeding tickets anyway.

[TNTitan]

Mandate every citizen join a gang of their choosing. Then incorporate and regulate them. Turn them into massive community action groups, over-fund them and remove their need to raise their own capitol. Then launch a huge anti-corruption negative PR campaign against them, revoke their budget and topple them from the inside. Just a thought...

[Guest HexHead]

I'm fairly sure both Jefferson and Franklin would be fetching the rope themselves, to deal with what we've allowed to happen, if they were still alive today. Neither of those two strike me as being anything but practical, when it comes to dealing with this sort of problem. And "practical" doesn't involve coddling, or making excuses for someone's behavior.

J.

Actually, Jefferson would have had them sent back to their overseers for gettin' their head straight with some hard work.

[Guest jackdm3]

Waiting on his brother to confirm the DUIs.

[willis68]

I'd already suggested we hire the private contractors when we've pulled out of Iraq. Turn them loose on the gangbangers and drug dealers with no impediment of having to arrest them. See a gangsta hanging on a street corner dealing drugs? Just take him out. Don't bother using the police, they're too programmed to arrest them and read them rights.

I thought we had this "war on drugs" thing going on?

Besides, Serpas wants the police out giving speeding tickets anyway.

I for one would gladly help pay for this

[trblmkr13]

After watching the sniper special on the History channel I have some new ideas how to clean up bad neighborhoods

[Guest HexHead]

Should have gotten his number, at least the car number, and turned him in. I don't care if they work a 2nd or 3rd job, but they have to do it on their own time, not while on patrol.

I drive into, through and out of bad parts of Memphis all the time going to industrial areas of Memphis and other commercial properties as part of my job, and never have I seen any unprofessional behavior from MPD. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I have not witnessed it, I would say I go more places in and around Memphis, than most.

Why do I think the complaint would fall on deaf ears in Memphis?

[DaveTN]

Why do I think the complaint would fall on deaf ears in Memphis?

We don’t have a clue. Why don’t you fill us in? Having bad cops is one thing; having bad cops and doing nothing about it is something else.

Is there a reason to believe that MPD would allow an Officer to be selling stuff out of the back of his patrol car while on duty, or that they are about to knowingly graduate a multiple DUI offender from the academy?

I’m just asking, I don’t know anything about MPD or their reputation.

[Guest jackdm3]

Dave is asking us to be more proactive in policing our police force, and I certainly agree.

[Guest db99wj]

Why do I think the complaint would fall on deaf ears in Memphis?

Hmm, well for awhile there, I thought I was number one in your ignore feature...

Anyway, probably true. The top brass seems and appears to be disconnected from the on the street guys and all caught up in the political arena. However, if you look back, I don't have time to do it for specific articles, but the MPD has cleaned out a lot of corrupt/bad cops over the last few years. Memphis's biggest problem starts with the office of mayor and goes down. Memphis has a new mayor, not sure about him yet either, from past experience as the county mayor, he seems to be really good in press conferences, smiling for the camera, not saying anything important, and raising taxes....so far he's been succesful at all of these as mayor of Memphis. (He just suggest raising property taxes some amount which equaled about 30%.

This could open a whole new discussion, but the "gang" members shown and interviewed, aren't the high ranking of the gangs, if they are even in the gangs other than to run drugs or some other low level job. The gangs of today are extremely educated, trained and run it like a business. Sounds like the one mentioned above sounded like a complete idiot and I wouldn't be surprised if that is what the leaders want, to make everyone in the world that watches think they are some unorganized, stupid thugs that aren't effective.

[Guest HexHead]

Legalize drugs. No money/cost in drugs, no motive for crime. Take away their "Freelance Pharmaceutical Distributor" jobs. End of the problem, overnight.

You're really being naive if you think by making drugs legal you'll put gangs out of business or end the motive for crime. They'll just move on to the drugs that aren't legal or move into the distribution end of the now legal drug using intimidation and duress to stem competition. Try running a restaurant in NYC without dealing with mobbed up linens and trash services. Most established gangs now are run like businesses with many tentacles, many of them legitimate businesses used to launder the ill-gotten cash.

[Guest HexHead]

Hmm, well for awhile there, I thought I was number one in your ignore feature...

Why would you think that?

Sounds like the one mentioned above sounded like a complete idiot and I wouldn't be surprised if that is what the leaders want, to make everyone in the world that watches think they are some unorganized, stupid thugs that aren't effective.

Kind of like Saddam using Baghdad Bob as his spokesperson?

[Guest HexHead]

We don’t have a clue. Why don’t you fill us in? Having bad cops is one thing; having bad cops and doing nothing about it is something else.

Is there a reason to believe that MPD would allow an Officer to be selling stuff out of the back of his patrol car while on duty, or that they are about to knowingly graduate a multiple DUI offender from the academy?

I’m just asking, I don’t know anything about MPD or their reputation.

I don't live there so I have no FHE, but my impression of Memphis is that it's easily the most corrupt city in TN. For starters, Fords have never seemed to have a problem getting elected there.

[tntnixon]

I don't live there so I have no FHE, but my impression of Memphis is that it's easily the most corrupt city in TN. For starters, Fords have never seemed to have a problem getting elected there.

This discussion has become a "Memphis Sucks" thread. And yes, memphis does indeed suck. If anyone wants to know why, I'll tell them. It's because the vast majority of Memphians suck and feed off the few productive members of society that still live there. And as long as those people are willing to reside there, they will be trampled upon by the majority, who actually like bad cops and corrupt politicians as evidenced by the way they vote.

Now back to the discussion of how to deal with gangs. First of all, we need to deal with gang members in constitutionally sound ways, as intended by our founding fathers (the same way we want 2A treated). They should all be given a fair trial by a jury of their peers and be given legal representation as detailed by the Constitution. If and when they are found guilty, they should be given the right to appeal the decision to the courts not multiple times on different grounds, but once at each level of the system as prescibed by law. The briefs should be turned in to the courts no later than 30days after the verdict is handed down. A hearing should be held no longer than 30 days afterward. And likewise, the ruling should be handed down no longer than 30 days later. After which, the execution shall commence.

This is quite possible and gives the accused every right afforded them under the Constitution. If the innocent perish, they perished with a clear conscience. We do not have perfect system. No legal system in the history of mankind has been perfect. It would be as close to ideal as we are capable, though, in giving rights to the accused and also the victims including the taxpayers who foot the bill.

[Guest db99wj]

This discussion has become a "Memphis Sucks" thread. And yes, memphis does indeed suck. If anyone wants to know why, I'll tell them. It's because the vast majority of Memphians suck and feed off the few productive members of society that still live there. And as long as those people are willing to reside there, they will be trampled upon by the majority, who actually like bad cops and corrupt politicians as evidenced by the way they vote.

Now back to the discussion of how to deal with gangs. First of all, we need to deal with gang members in constitutionally sound ways, as intended by our founding fathers (the same way we want 2A treated). They should all be given a fair trial by a jury of their peers and be given legal representation as detailed by the Constitution. If and when they are found guilty, they should be given the right to appeal the decision to the courts not multiple times on different grounds, but once at each level of the system as prescibed by law. The briefs should be turned in to the courts no later than 30days after the verdict is handed down. A hearing should be held no longer than 30 days afterward. And likewise, the ruling should be handed down no longer than 30 days later. After which, the execution shall commence.

This is quite possible and gives the accused every right afforded them under the Constitution. If the innocent perish, they perished with a clear conscience. We do not have perfect system. No legal system in the history of mankind has been perfect. It would be as close to ideal as we are capable, though, in giving rights to the accused and also the victims including the taxpayers who foot the bill.

Agreed, except for the part about Memphis, we have our problems, but there is a lot more good here than bad, bad news travels faster and is news, not good things, different story for a different time.

Clear cut, a standard of time that has to be followed. I like that. Years and years of setting court dates and appeals, is a joke.

[trblmkr13]

Maybe a solution like this would work?

[tntnixon]

Maybe a solution like this would work?

Dud, You have read my mind. I've been saying this for years, only I think they should use New Orleans.

[poak]

Hiring someone that shoplifted or had a bag of weed as a kid and has since went straight is a whole lot different than hiring a multiple DUI offender (or even a single DUI). They are an enormous liability if the department knows it.

Agreed, don't always grow up to be the same person they were as a child. I'd be willing to bet no one on this board is the same person they were at 15.

A Piperton cop pulled me over with full-armsleeve tattoos. I could go on ...

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how tattoos, whether full-sleeve or not, effect the moral compass of a person (LEO or not).

[tntnixon]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how tattoos, whether full-sleeve or not, effect the moral compass of a person (LEO or not).

Here's where you will see a huge difference between the older and the very young. When you're my age, or older, tatoos represent the ultimate in bad decision making.

First of all, most of us are Christians or Jews, and Leviticus 19:28 clearly condemns the practice "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD" (can't be more clear). So the thinking is that if you clearly and blatantly defy your god for perpetuity, you're probably not of good moral character.

Secondly, mostly younger people get "tats" and have relatively low incomes, as opposed to us. Tattoo are not cheap. So, in escence we see that one has made a financial sacrifice, mabe even a necessity, for something that is frivolous. We tend to call that bad decision making.

We, of the older generations actually believe in a true right and a true wrong and usually base these things on our faith. Unfortunately, the younger generations are taught a kinder and gentler faith. One that has no absolutes, even when there is scriptural evidence to the contrary.

I normally wouldn't go into this on this site, but you asked.

I got your back on this one, Jack.

Edited December 21, 2009 by tntnixon

[DaveTN]

When you're my age, or older, tatoos represent the ultimate in bad decision making.

How old are you?

If the innocent perish, they perished with a clear conscience.

You can’t be serious. You posted that and now you are going to quote scripture to us?

[tntnixon]

How old are you?

37

You can’t be serious. You posted that and now you are going to quote scripture to us?

Do you know anything about biblical law? Do you really believe that everyone convicted was absolutely guilty? Probably not. However, God set forth a legal system that tried and punished because he wanted to protect the society. The key is trying to get it right, not necessarily always getting it right because the results of not having a system that removes the guilty from it's midst, is far more devastating.

By the way, Poak asked how tattoos were a moral issue and I told him. I didn't knock on his door Bible in hand.

[Guest jackdm3]

Sorry for the late response. I was at the gym for what seemed like hours. My thoughts on the tats are that I remember when all cops and soldiers weren't to have any tats showing. I like tats in as far as wondering what was behind each one that they thought they would make them permanent. My observation was one of the fact that police forces stated that they had standards that were being intentionally dropped. It's the criminal pasts of recruits that concern me, not ink. My wife had her two little tattoos removed and it cost her THOUSANDS to get and then remove them. I married my inky woman not because of the ink.

UPDATE ON MY FRIEND'S BROTHER:

John clarified that his brother was arrested at least three different times:

1 Underage Public Drunk

2 Over 21 Public Drunk

3 Bar room fighting

No DUIs, so I guess he's a ripe candidate.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Hey Chuck T.! Wazzzup! I agree with most of your post, just not the all drugs thing, only weed growth. What I would like to see is for someone to come up with a way to prove an individual (and groups)a member or members of a violent gang and charge them with "accessory" to assault, robbery, rape, conspiracy, drug and gun trafficing and murder, and every thing else that might apply, because of association and shoot for the absolute maximum penalty to every offense run consecutively. Help the economy by building huge max prisons out in the desert somewhere. Make'm spend 8 hours a day outside, 4 midday/ 4 after midnight, and maybe they will tell the stupid up and comers it ain't worth it and to earn their "respect" by being a productive member of society like everyone else did.