Firearm Sales

[Guest pawn]

Hello All,

I have a question about firearm sales. Can TN residents legally conduct face to face transfers without going through an FFL? To me, it would seem going through an FFL would be required but I am wrong all the time so thought I would ask.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Mark

[TripleDigitRide]

No FFL needed if the transaction takes place in TN and both parties are TN residents.

[TripleDigitRide]

Just to clarify, and someone with real knowledge of this may want to chime in, but if the firearm is one that needs to be registered (Short Barrel Rifle - barrel under 16", Short Barrel Shotgun - barrel under 18", Automatic - more than one round fired with one pull of the trigger, Etc), I'm pretty sure you'll need to go through an FFL.

[R1100R]

No FFL needed if the transaction takes place in TN and both parties are TN residents.

TDR is right as long as the person is of legal age and can legally own said firearm.

Don't quite understand the shipping lesson?

[TripleDigitRide]

MUST HAVE A TAX STAMP;)

I didn't want to muddy the waters too much, but I thought I'd throw that out there, just in case. I don't know much about those type of transactions.

[Guest pawn]

Thanks everyone, much appreciated.

[Alleycat72]

Just to clarify, and someone with real knowledge of this may want to chime in, but if the firearm is one that needs to be registered (Short Barrel Rifle - barrel under 16", Short Barrel Shotgun - barrel under 18", Automatic - more than one round fired with one pull of the trigger, Etc), I'm pretty sure you'll need to go through an FFL.

Nope. If I sell you a MG for instance, you give me the money, I fill out my part of the form 4, you fill out your part, and send it in. The form 4 will come back to me. I then call you to come get your form 4 and MG. This is only for transfers from TN resident to TN resident. If you live outside TN you would get a double whammy though two FFLs.

[TripleDigitRide]

Nope. If I sell you a MG for instance, you give me the money, I fill out my part of the form 4, you fill out your part, and send it in. The form 4 will come back to me. I then call you to come get your form 4 and MG. This is only for transfers from TN resident to TN resident. If you live outside TN you would get a double whammy though two FFLs.

I figured I wasn't 100% sure how it worked. Thanks for the clarification.

I'd really have to trust someone a whole lot to go the route you've explained. Handing a stranger several thousand dollars and walking away without the merchandise would make me very uneasy for quite some time. How much does it cost to involve an FFL in such a transaction?

[nightrunner]

also you can buy a handgun FTF at 18. you only have to be 21 if you are buying from a gun dealer. FTF transactions on ammo have no restictions, age or otherwise

basically sell to anybody you want as long as they are TN resident and not a convicted felon.

[TripleDigitRide]

Not everyone likes to use these, nor are they necessary, but you may want to take a look.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/trading-post-notices-faqs/8-suggested-form-face-face-firearms-sale-transfer.html

[Guest HexHead]

MUST HAVE A TAX STAMP BEFORE RECEIVING THE FIREARM.

There, fixed it for ya.

[Alleycat72]

If I was putting down 10 grand I would happily pay a class 3 $50 or so to hold the gun in a safe. Your deller my not charge you any thing. If you buy some thing from out of state make sure it's on a form 3. It would be a FFL to FFL transfer and I think its $10 to the dealer but I'm not sure. The dealer will charge you the standard transfer fee though ($100).

[Oh Shoot]

... MUST BE FFL holder to ship in the USPS, If your not an FFL holder must shipped thur UPS or FEDEX to FFL holder !!!

Individual can ship long gun through USPS to another individual in same state.

Individual can ship long gun through USPS to FFL in any state.

Individual may not ship handgun through USPS in any circumstance.

- OS

[crashgordan]

Next time I sell a firearm in a parking lot I might actually use this form. Thanks!

seriously?

while i understand the logic,

BATF doesn't require it. TN doesn't require it.

and who wrote these questions and why are are most of them in the

"I have been / I am a turd" format ??

how bout, "I have never been, I am not..."

it's a serious question. i'm not trying to be dick.

____________________________________________________________

1. I am the actual buyer / transferee of the firearm(s) (_) Yes (_) No

2. I am under indictment or have been arrested for any felony(s) (_) Yes (_) No

3. I am a fugitive from justice (_) Yes (_) No

4. I am an unlawful user or addicted to drugs or any controlled substance (_) Yes (_) No

5. I have been declared mentally defective (_) Yes (_) No

6. I have been committed to any mental institution (_) Yes (_) No

7. I was dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces (_) Yes (_) No

8. I am subject to a court order restraining me from harassing, stalking or threatening my child or an intimate partner. (_) Yes (_) No

9. I have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (_) Yes (_) No

10. If ever a United States Citizen, I have not renounced my citizenship (_) Yes (_) No

11. I am an illegal alien in the United States (_) Yes (_) No

[Oh Shoot]

It was a joke. I was being sarcastic.

??

I believe his question was why is the TGO form written the way it is.

"I am..." instead of "Are you...".

Note these are the same questions asked on the 4473, just phrased differently.

- OS

[crashgordan]

??

I believe his question was why is the TGO form written the way it is.

"I am..." instead of "Are you...".

Note these are the same questions asked on the 4473, just phrased differently.

- OS

I was, but that's cool....

i thought the questions were phrased in largely in accusatory form, and wondered where the source of this came from...

also, my post was directed to anyone who would use this form...

i guess i don't see it the same way some folks do.

in fact, i 've walked away from some great guns that required a signature and all that crap.

likewise, i've bought a few (exactly one, i think) because the seller was standup.

i get it, "being safe, covering my/your butt), etc, but when the state and federal government doesn't require it, why in the hell would i do it! they are intrusive enough without adding to it.

maybe someday i'll see the light on this....

or maybe i'm just very careful about where my stuff comes from and where it goes...

i think i need a cup o coffee... i'm not usually this grumpy

[JayC]

HI MARK, I sell & buy on gunbroker, You don't need an FFL to sell FTF, BUT you have to make sure the person is 18 years old to buy (AMMO for rifle, buy shotgun or rifle, 21 years old, to buy handgun ammo or handgun) To ship a gun out, MUST go to FFL holder, MUST BE FFL holder to ship in the USPS, If your not an FFL holder must shipped thur UPS or FEDEX to FFL holder !!!

Only FFL's are prohibited from selling a handgun to persons who are 18 but not yet 21. In TN it's perfectly legal to gift or sell handguns to an 18 year old.

Edited December 25, 2009 by JayC

[strickj]

I was, but that's cool....

i thought the questions were phrased in largely in accusatory form, and wondered where the source of this came from...

also, my post was directed to anyone who would use this form...

i guess i don't see it the same way some folks do.

in fact, i 've walked away from some great guns that required a signature and all that crap.

likewise, i've bought a few (exactly one, i think) because the seller was standup.

i get it, "being safe, covering my/your butt), etc, but when the state and federal government doesn't require it, why in the hell would i do it! they are intrusive enough without adding to it.

maybe someday i'll see the light on this....

or maybe i'm just very careful about where my stuff comes from and where it goes...

i think i need a cup o coffee... i'm not usually this grumpy

Just playing devils advocate here.... buuut, the Federal Gov also doesn't require that you wipe your butt after taking a poo either, but I think we all agree that's a good idea

[Guest SUNTZU]

Just playing devils advocate here.... buuut, the Federal Gov also doesn't require that you wipe your butt after taking a poo either, but I think we all agree that's a good idea

But there will soon be a czar for that, too, I imagine.

[Currently]

Individual can ship long gun through USPS to another individual in same state.

Individual can ship long gun through USPS to FFL in any state.

Individual may not ship handgun through USPS in any circumstance.

- OS

Not true.

Handgun may be shipped USPS by a private individual from another state to a FFL holder in the state where a resident of that state will purchase from that FFL holder after passing TBI background check.

Firearm must be shipped overnight and via certified mail.

Firearm must be unloaded and magazines be unloaded.

Ammunition must be shipped in a separate package.

The person mailing the firearm needs a copy of the FFL license that it is being shipped to. He then signs an affidavit and attaches that license that the reciever is a licensed firearms dealer.

Google USPS: Shipping firearms

or speak to a licensed dealer.

Edited December 26, 2009 by Currently

[Guest bkelm18]

Not true.

Handgun may be shipped USPS by a private individual from another state to a FFL holder in the state where a resident of that state will purchase from that FFL holder after passing TBI background check.

No, that's not correct. A private individual cannot ship a handgun via USPS. Only FFLs can do that. You need to read all of the USPS Shipping Regs regarding firearms. It specifically outlines who is allowed to mail handguns.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

^^Federal Law

Edited December 26, 2009 by bkelm18

[Currently]

Interesting ... I stand corrected.

FFL to FFL is OK but private to FFL is not OK. Point taken.

[Oh Shoot]

Not true.

Handgun may be shipped USPS by a private individual from another state to a FFL holder in the state where a resident of that state will purchase from that FFL holder after passing TBI background check.

Firearm must be shipped overnight and via certified mail.

...

No.

See Bkelm's response and this directly from USPS manual. I actually kind of hate to use BATF FAQ, because they have some FALSE info in it (regarding notification that shipment contains firearm), but here's from USPS service guide:

----------------------------------

11.1.2 Handguns

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6.

11.1.3 Authorized Persons

Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e.

11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers

Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

-----------------

- OS

[Mike.357]

All I would say about the Mickey Mouse 4473 is that of you are going to expect a buyer to use it have the common courtesy of discussing that request before hand.

Don't wait until you are in a parking lot and springit on someone.

[Guest pawn]

Is a face to face long gun sale/transfer ok between residents of 2 different states (TN and AL)?