.223 for Coyote Hunting

[Sidewinder]

I'm thinking of buying a .223 for yote hunting in the Middle Tennessee area. Anyone else using this caliber in this area? if so, what has been your experience with it? Does it have the range and knock down power to stop ole wiley coyote in this area? What gun, grain bullet, and calling method are you using? I have a .243, which will do the job, but want to go to a cheaper round, and figured the .223 just might be the perfect round for the area. What do all you Middle Tennessee yote hunters think? Does the .223 leave them DRT? Facts are better... opinions are good too.

Why do they call it common sense, When it's so uncommon? TN Sen. Fred Thompson

[Guest Bronker]

Great timing on this thread! I've been researching this topic all evening. What I have found, is that the 5.56/.223 is plenty to kill yotes at reasonable distances. I've killed them out to 400 yds, but that was with a .30-06!

I've watched Fred Eichler on Predator Nation kill them way out there with a RRA .223 AR platform, but he is using the 20" free-floating long-range set-up rather than a carbine length 16". That 4" makes a HUGE difference (just ask strickj:D).

I'll be watching the thread! I'll also be curious to see what ammo that everyone suggests. I've found the Wolf plinking junk very lacking in the accuracy to be effective enough.

[Wingshooter]

I am also following these coyote threads. I am building a 5.56 AR carbine, and I plan to use it for yotes. Based on the info in some other threads, I think the .223 will be a great round for this purpose. Hopefully I'll have the remaining parts to finish my AR next week.

I just built the weasel ball decoy from Al's Varmint web site, but I still need to get a caller.

[Hidalgo]

That 4" makes a HUGE difference (just ask strickj:D).

I don't know what the "just ask strickj" means, but if your comment is about the 20" barrel being "better" than a 16" barrel ... well ... that's hogwash.

I've used and hunted extensively with both.

..... The 16" tube is usually more accurate than the 20".

..... The 16" carries easier and is obviously lighter than the 20".

..... Unless you're using open sights the longer sight plane is a moot point.

I could go on and on. There is no reason to opt for the longer barrel on a coyote rifle. Especially here in TN where we are not apt to be faced with 300-400 yard shots. I have used both of these barrel lengths numerous times here in TN and also in CO,TX,and AZ.

Based upon several years of experience with these rifles in hunting situations, I can assure you that there is no appreciable advantage to carrying a 20" barreled rifle.

I know that the ballistic charts and powder burn rates will all point to an extra "few" FPS out of the longer tube ... but it isn't enough to make a difference at the ranges that this rifle will be used.

The ONLY advantage that I will give the longer barrel is that it is usually a little quieter than the 16. But we all wear hearing protection ... right?

Edited December 20, 2009 by Hidalgo

[RD3]

Does it have the range and knock down power to stop ole wiley coyote in this area?

just get some bird shot for you 12 ga and shoot the road runner, let wiley live in peace.

[Alleycat72]

I don't know what the "just ask strickj" means, but if your comment is about the 20" barrel being "better" than a 16" barrel ... well ... that's hogwash.

I've used and hunted extensively with both.

..... The 16" tube is usually more accurate than the 20".

..... The 16" carries easier and is obviously lighter than the 20".

..... Unless you're using open sights the longer sight plane is a moot point.

I could go on and on. There is no reason to opt for the longer barrel on a coyote rifle. Especially here in TN where we are not apt to be faced with 300-400 yard shots. I have used both of these barrel lengths numerous times here in TN and also in CO,TX,and AZ.

Based upon several years of experience with these rifles in hunting situations, I can assure you that there is no appreciable advantage to carrying a 20" barreled rifle.

I know that the ballistic charts and powder burn rates will all point to an extra "few" FPS out of the longer tube ... but it isn't enough to make a difference at the ranges that this rifle will be used.

The ONLY advantage that I will give the longer barrel is that it is usually a little quieter than the 16. But we all wear hearing protection ... right?

We hunt on three different farms and you can easily get past those yardages. East TN looks a little different than middle TN.

[Guest Bronker]

I don't know what the "just ask strickj" means, but if your comment is about the 20" barrel being "better" than a 16" barrel ... well ... that's hogwash.

I've used and hunted extensively with both.

..... The 16" tube is usually more accurate than the 20".

..... The 16" carries easier and is obviously lighter than the 20".

..... Unless you're using open sights the longer sight plane is a moot point.

I could go on and on. There is no reason to opt for the longer barrel on a coyote rifle. Especially here in TN where we are not apt to be faced with 300-400 yard shots. I have used both of these barrel lengths numerous times here in TN and also in CO,TX,and AZ.

Based upon several years of experience with these rifles in hunting situations, I can assure you that there is no appreciable advantage to carrying a 20" barreled rifle.

I know that the ballistic charts and powder burn rates will all point to an extra "few" FPS out of the longer tube ... but it isn't enough to make a difference at the ranges that this rifle will be used.

The ONLY advantage that I will give the longer barrel is that it is usually a little quieter than the 16. But we all wear hearing protection ... right?

I'm not sure that i would dismiss, as 'hogwash', an observation in which my counter-point immediately leads with 'usually'. I'm in full agreement that the ammunition choice will make a far more substantial impact on accuracy than will four inches in barrel length.

In keeping with your observations, what ammunition do you recommend with this set-up, taking into account a 16" barrel and the potential for 300-400 yds? I've never killed a coyote any closer than 300 yards actually. I'm 'apt' to shoot up to 600 yds just to the back of my pasture, and that's just to the woods line that I can see from where I'm sitting now. Granted, it has always been with a different caliber.

Thanks for the input!

[Hidalgo]

We hunt on three different farms and you can easily get past those yardages. East TN looks a little different than middle TN.

Then the question I have for you is this:

Can you HIT at those yardages? Not off a bench, but offhand or on sticks? What is your "personal" yardage limit? Do you just take any shot that is offered? ... Or only those which have the probability of a clean kill? And if the .223 isn't viable over 300 yards (and IMO it isn't) then what do you use for coyotes? And can you make clean kills in a hunting situation at ranges over 300 yards?

I wasn't saying that shots at extreme ranges aren't available in this area. But I was saying that the probability of having those shots, and making those shots, was not a likely scenario.

[Hidalgo]

In keeping with your observations, what ammunition do you recommend with this set-up, taking into account a 16" barrel and the potential for 300-400 yds? I've never killed a coyote any closer than 300 yards actually. I'm 'apt' to shoot up to 600 yds just to the back of my pasture, and that's just to the woods line that I can see from where I'm sitting now. Granted, it has always been with a different caliber.

Thanks for the input!

OK ... let's talk about "Real World" scenarios here ...

The .223 can and DOES allow for extreme accuracy out to and possibly beyond 600 yards. I see it at the High-Power matches with regularity. BUT, those rifles are not the set-up that you are apt to be coyote hunting with. They are fed as a single shot and use extremely heavy bullets that won't even feed through a standard AR or bolt action magazine. If you think that your .223 is capable of making clean kills out to 500-600 yards, then I implore you to try making those shots at paper targets in a hunting situation. That is ... sitting on the ground and using shooting sticks. It's only the very best riflemen who can consistently hit a 6" circle (the kill zone of a coyote) at anything over 300 yards in that scenario.

Coyote hunting is like any other form of hunting ... you want to make a clean kill and do so at the closest range possible. Taking a shot at a distance that is questionable only tells you 2 things: (1) You didn't do something right with your calling or you should have been able to coax the animal closer, and (2) Taking a shot at that distance will probably only result in burnt powder and an educated coyote that you'll never call in again.

Use your head guys! Coyotes are smart, but they are also predators and opportunists. Call them correctly and these long shots are unnecessary. Proper set-ups, reading the wind, remaining still, and taking the time to evaluate your position will result (more times than not) in an easy shot at a reasonable range. And the .223 is a great caliber for a reasonable range.

As for the question about what bullet/weight I suggest/prefer, my rifles all shoot the 60 grain VMax bullets with amazing accuracy. If I were not reloading, I would try Black Hills ammo loaded with these bullets. Just remember that each and every rifle has it's own preferences. As an example, I have 2 DPMS uppers that are exactly identical. While they both prefer the 60gr bullets, one likes a little different powder charge than the other for maximum accuracy. Your rate of twist in your barrel will have a lot to do with your bullet choice. Faster twists will usually prefer heavier bullets.

[Alleycat72]

We have three farms that we hunt on. Two of them have steel plates for targets. One is setup for 1000 yds. The other has a 500 yard plate and a 800 yard plate. We have target stands for paper from 100 to 800 in 100 yard intervals. At the third we watch deer from 1500 yards, get an idea where they're going and get set up for a 200-300 shot. We shoot off bench and off bipod(ground). Yes, I can hit out to 1000 yds off of a bipod. Hunting is a different story. Ethics come in to play, but I have and will drop the hammer on a deer at 500 yds. You said you were not apt to be faced with a shot like that. Wrong. I did not comment on the 223 or its ability to kill at those ranges. I agree that 300 yards would be the limit. If you stepped up to a 22-250 or used a 243-6mm, I would go to 500. I use a 6.5 WSM for all my long range shooting. There are a hell of a lot of cattle pasters around here. 300 yds across is an itty bitty one.

[Guest Bronker]

OK ... let's talk about "Real World" scenarios here ...

The .223 can and DOES allow for extreme accuracy out to and possibly beyond 600 yards. I see it at the High-Power matches with regularity. BUT, those rifles are not the set-up that you are apt to be coyote hunting with. They are fed as a single shot and use extremely heavy bullets that won't even feed through a standard AR or bolt action magazine. If you think that your .223 is capable of making clean kills out to 500-600 yards, then I implore you to try making those shots at paper targets in a hunting situation. That is ... sitting on the ground and using shooting sticks. It's only the very best riflemen who can consistently hit a 6" circle (the kill zone of a coyote) at anything over 300 yards in that scenario.

Coyote hunting is like any other form of hunting ... you want to make a clean kill and do so at the closest range possible. Taking a shot at a distance that is questionable only tells you 2 things: (1) You didn't do something right with your calling or you should have been able to coax the animal closer, and (2) Taking a shot at that distance will probably only result in burnt powder and an educated coyote that you'll never call in again.

Use your head guys! Coyotes are smart, but they are also predators and opportunists. Call them correctly and these long shots are unnecessary. Proper set-ups, reading the wind, remaining still, and taking the time to evaluate your position will result (more times than not) in an easy shot at a reasonable range. And the .223 is a great caliber for a reasonable range.

As for the question about what bullet/weight I suggest/prefer, my rifles all shoot the 60 grain VMax bullets with amazing accuracy. If I were not reloading, I would try Black Hills ammo loaded with these bullets. Just remember that each and every rifle has it's own preferences. As an example, I have 2 DPMS uppers that are exactly identical. While they both prefer the 60gr bullets, one likes a little different powder charge than the other for maximum accuracy. Your rate of twist in your barrel will have a lot to do with your bullet choice. Faster twists will usually prefer heavier bullets.

Great information. I totally agree.

I personally wouldn't attempt a shot farther than 200-225 with my AR in any situation regardless; primarily for my own limitations, secondarily for the cartridge performance/platform capacity of the weapon. Most coyotes that I have killed at the farther ranges have been with a bolt action, in a deer hunting set-up, off of a rest of some sort. Any times I have been dedicated predator hunting, I'm set up with sticks or natural rest, and again...a bolt action, higher caliber rifle.

Thanks for the heads-up on the V-Max bullet choice. I have become a fan of them of late (I don't reload). Even the factory Hornandy seems to be accurate.

[Hidalgo]

We have three farms that we hunt on. Two of them have steel plates for targets. One is setup for 1000 yds. The other has a 500 yard plate and a 800 yard plate. We have target stands for paper from 100 to 800 in 100 yard intervals. At the third we watch deer from 1500 yards, get an idea where they're going and get set up for a 200-300 shot. We shoot off bench and off bipod(ground). Yes, I can hit out to 1000 yds off of a bipod. Hunting is a different story. Ethics come in to play, but I have and will drop the hammer on a deer at 500 yds. You said you were not apt to be faced with a shot like that. Wrong. I did not comment on the 223 or its ability to kill at those ranges. I agree that 300 yards would be the limit. If you stepped up to a 22-250 or used a 243-6mm, I would go to 500. I use a 6.5 WSM for all my long range shooting. There are a hell of a lot of cattle pasters around here. 300 yds across is an itty bitty one.

You made my point ... TWICE.

And the question WAS about a .223.

Just food for thought............

At 500 yards, a 60 grain bullet from a .223 will drop 121" ... That's TEN FEET! Any of you out there feel competent that you can judge 10 feet of drop through a scope when shooting at a coyote (6" vertical kill zone, remember) that is 500 yards away?

And if you CAN do that (or think you can) then take this into consideration: That same bullet, in a 5mph wind, will need 20" of windage adjustment. And in a 10mph wind, it will need 40" of windage adjustment. If you think you can make that adjustment, then can you tell the difference between a 5mph wind and a 10mph wind? And do you know the wind velocity at your target that is 500 yards away? Remember ... we're talking about a 6" vertical kill zone here.

(If you question my figures, then put in your info and check it yourself: http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?page=%2fbalcalc.ascx )

Once again ... this is simple math and common sense. If your shots are going to be regularly over 200-300 yards (and they shouldn't be in a predator hunting situation) then you need a bigger gun.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Hidalgo

[Alleycat72]

"Especially here in TN where we are not apt to be faced with 300-400 yard shots."

This is the statement I call BS on. You are and will be faced with these ranges. What you do with them is a different story. I have no problem with anything else you said.

[Hidalgo]

I'm not sure that i would dismiss, as 'hogwash', an observation in which my counter-point immediately leads with 'usually'.

Your statement said HUGE ... in CAPITAL letters. Not the case.

[Hidalgo]

"Especially here in TN where we are not apt to be faced with 300-400 yard shots."

This is the statement I call BS on. You are and will be faced with these ranges. What you do with them is a different story. I have no problem with anything else you said.

Do you coyote hunt? Are you a seasoned coyote hunter? Can you do a proper set-up to utilize the wind and terrain to your advantage? If not, then perhaps you need to evaluate your "BS" call. FWIW, we hunt TX, CO, and AZ pretty regularly (at least yearly) and most of the time we have to defend ourselves to keep the dogs from running over us when they are coming in. That's right ... MOST of the time. The other times are the results of an educated coyote that decides something's wrong and hangs up at a distance. Don't confuse a long shot with bad preparation and calling technique. Do your homework, educate yourself, and this will be a non-issue. And you won't have to mis-understand my comments.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Hidalgo

[Alleycat72]

Do you coyote hunt? Are you a seasoned coyote hunter? Can you do a proper set-up to utilize the wind and terrain to your advantage? Then perhaps you need to evaluate your "BS" call. FWIW, we hunt TX, CO, and AZ pretty regularly (at least yearly) and most of the time we have to defend ourselves to keep the dogs from running over us when they are coming in. That's right ... MOST of the time. Don't confuse a long shot with bad preparation and calling technique. Do your homework, educate yourself, and this will be a non-issue. And you won't have to mis-understand my comments.

What does that have to do with the fact that there are places you will be presented with shots farther than 300 yards? I don't bust out the camo and calling gear when we are working cattle. The rangefinder and a bullet with a .640 bc @ 3000 fps works just fine. The Premier Reticle scope doesn't hurt either.

[Hidalgo]

What does that have to do with the fact that there are places you will be presented with shots farther than 300 yards? I don't bust out the camo and calling gear when we are working cattle. The rangefinder and a bullet with a .640 bc @ 3000 fps works just fine. The Premier Reticle scope doesn't hurt either.

ALL of my opinions and info was presented to answer the original post that said:

I'm thinking of buying a .223 for yote hunting in the Middle Tennessee area.

No mention of a .30 caliber rifle, .640 coefficient, cattle wrangling, or anything else. He said: "for 'yote hunting". No mention of casual targets of opportunity or roadside sightings. And he asked about a .223 caliber.

Now what did I say that was wrong ... in that scenario? You're twisting the original topic off it's original path.

[Alleycat72]

It's a 6.5 not a .30. My only argument is that ranges of more than 300 yards are encountered in Middle TN the OP lives in Murfreesboro. That is in Middle TN where said ranges may be encountered. If he will be shooting farther than 300 yards he may need to get a hotter cartridge. That it what it has to do with the 223.

[xd shooter]

He said & you quoted Middle Tennessee area. Not TX,CO, & AZ. I'm not saying that you can't find larger feilds, but for the most part in Middle Tn a 300 yrd shot is a long one.

[Guest grimel]

"Especially here in TN where we are not apt to be faced with 300-400 yard shots."

This is the statement I call BS on. You are and will be faced with these ranges. What you do with them is a different story. I have no problem with anything else you said.

No, you will be faced with some instances where you can see the coyote/deer/whatever at over 400yds. Seeing isn't having a shot. I'd be willing to wager a big chunk 90% of the folks worrying about a 300+ yard shot can't make a 300+ yard shot consistently off a bench in hunting time constraints much less field conditions.

It's that judging 10 feet of drop and 3+ feet of windage and getting on target (usually moving) and stroking the trigger and doing all of it in a few seconds that causes the problems.

I can SEE deer here in east Tn (and do) at well over 500yds. I can shoot deer here in east Tn at considerably less, even when using a 7mm/300 mag.

Step back to a 223 (even a 220 Swift) and 500yds shots at coyotes are decidedly non-ethical shots.

Even in middle Tn a 223 covers all the shots 95% of the people doing the shooting can make consistently.

[Guest grimel]

It's a 6.5 not a .30. My only argument is that ranges of more than 300 yards are encountered in Middle TN the OP lives in Murfreesboro. That is in Middle TN where said ranges may be encountered. If he will be shooting farther than 300 yards he may need to get a hotter cartridge. That it what it has to do with the 223.

If he is shooting farther than 200yds he needs to work on his technique not get a bigger gun.

[Ropin4gold]

There have been plenty of Yotes killed in middle Tennessee with a .223. To the OP you will be fine with this caliber. I like 62 grn myself but have used the 40 grn and 55 grn also. Just depends on what the terrain is where you hunt. I use my 16" ar but am hunting a 26" Remington .223 bolt gun.

[Guest Bronker]

Your statement said HUGE ... in CAPITAL letters. Not the case.

Taken out of context. I use the word 'huge' a great deal. It is 'usually' done so appropriately.

Better now?

I'm done thread crapping, but remain interested in your pertinent insight. It's been a HUGE help.

[Hidalgo]

Taken out of context. I use the word 'huge' a great deal. It is 'usually' done so appropriately.

Better now?

I'm done thread crapping, but remain interested in your pertinent insight. It's been a HUGE help.

That was in response to:

I'm not sure that i would dismiss, as 'hogwash', an observation in which my counter-point immediately leads with 'usually'.

I wasn't trying to be a "thread crapper" either, but rather make the point that this cartridge is, indeed, a capable coyote caliber at any distance that a competent coyote hunter would ethically take a shot. I still stand on that statement, and haven't heard any statements that prove otherwise. Coyote hunting is like deer hunting or any other hunting foray. Preparation and education breeds success ... not how far your rifle will shoot.

Most of the arguments here have been on the pretext that a coyote hunter would/should have shots that ranged into the infinite yonder. The point that I tried to repeatedly make was that if you prepare, execute, and think ... those shots will be few and far between. Most every coyote that has hung up on us at a large distance was the result of a mistake made by the hunters.

[Wingshooter]

So, about 300 yards should be considered the maximum effective range of the .223 to ethically take a coyote (assuming good shot placement of course)? Does the bullet retain sutable energy at that distance?