Ammo For Shotgun At Home

[partypilot1]

Yea, there is tons of accidents were innocent bystanders have been shot Typically involving drive-by shootings (lots of lead and lots of misses)

[Guest Muttling]

All this talk of over penetration and missed shot really makes no sense. For the most part people carry 9mm, 40, 45acp, and similiar rounds in revolvers. which all penetrate more and will travel further than birdshot. Any good load in 9mm or larger will penetrate 12" or more in ballistic gel. #71/2 birdshot penetrates to less than 6" in the tests I have seen online and #4 birdshot penetrates to about 6.5" So why are you worried about buckshot but not worried about your 45

In my previous post, I noted that I use 00 buck in my home defense shotgun and commented of the penetration issues that come with it.

The OP's issue that really hasn't been addressed is slugs. I think we've covered that bird shot at close range is lethal with less penetration. There are times when either could be better, but what about slugs?

What is the penetration of slugs? If I have to go through a wall to hit an attacker, I WANT a slug even though 00 will probably get the job done. How many walls will a slug penetrate??? I am not asking a rhetorical question, I honestly don't know.

[Superman]

I have seen slugs go through 3 or 4 peices of 3/4" plywood spaced about 8-10 feet apart.

[Smith]

This should cover all the bases! awesome pics of just about every load I would want to try.

Shotgunworld.com • View topic - 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware) Examples on page 3

[G27]

Yea, there is tons of accidents were innocent bystanders have been shot Typically involving drive-by shootings (lots of lead and lots of misses)

That's a totally different situation from a home defense shooting.

[Wingshooter]

When I think about birdshot in a HD shotgun, I guess I am thinking about bigger birds such as turkeys, geese, etc...

I am comfortable with anything larger than #4 lead or Hevi-Shot type ammo for close range defense in my home. Sometimes I have larger shot sizes loaded for HD, but never smaller than #4 lead. I also use my HD shotgun for duck hunting, so my HD and hunting shells get loaded/unloaded quite a bit. I just have to make sure that I leave the lead at home when I take it duck hunting.

On the subject of wall penetration... No matter what weapon or ammo is used, I think it is important to expect it to penetrate the wall. The concern is different for different households. Someone living in an apartment with other families on the other side of 3 walls will have a different perspective than someone in a single-family home with no children in the house. The rule still applies... know the background. However, in an apartment or multi-family home, that may not always be possible. I can understand why someone in this situation would want a potentially lethal round at close range that has a reduced chance of visiting the neighbors on the other side of the wall.

[Wingshooter]

In my previous post, I noted that I use 00 buck in my home defense shotgun and commented of the penetration issues that come with it.

The OP's issue that really hasn't been addressed is slugs. I think we've covered that bird shot at close range is lethal with less penetration. There are times when either could be better, but what about slugs?

What is the penetration of slugs? If I have to go through a wall to hit an attacker, I WANT a slug even though 00 will probably get the job done. How many walls will a slug penetrate??? I am not asking a rhetorical question, I honestly don't know.

That's a good point. If a BG is engaging you while hiding behind an outside corner of your hallway or behind some furniture, you may want that extra penetration to end the attack.

[Oh Shoot]

.. I think we've covered that bird shot at close range is lethal with less penetration. ...

"We" have? You have a mouse in your pocket?

I'll concede it is potentially lethal, and the potentially INcreases as distance DEcreases.

It is also certainly less likely to immediately STOP a threat than buckshot, though, and that's what you really want, rather than a gruesomely wounded assailant who can empty a magazine at you before he croaks. Even if he can't see while he's doing it.

- OS

[RoDan]

"We" have? You have a mouse in your pocket?

I'll concede it is potentially lethal, and the potentially INcreases as distance DEcreases.

It is also certainly less likely to immediately STOP a threat than buckshot, though, and that's what you really want, rather than a gruesomely wounded assailant who can empty a magazine at you before he croaks. Even if he can't see while he's doing it.

- OS

bingo! I agree 100% Look at the box o truth or any place where they do testing with different rounds through sheet rock, and you will see puny handgun rounds pose more of a threat over even 00 buck simply because they pass through walls more easily. If you are comfortable with shooting a handgun in your house for self defense, then logic would dictate you should be comfortable with shooting 00 buck in your house for self defense as well. Sure with buckshot there are more pellets to worry about, but again at the ranges we are talking about here that is a moot point for the most part.

Also take into account that because of the increased power of the shotgun overall, fewer shots should be required to stop the threat (many more wound channels etc), perhaps even one will do it. Where as a handgun may require several and because of its smaller hit pattern (obviously) shot placement is more critical, then you factor in stress level etc. I don't know the numbers but I'd think a one shot stop is much more likely from 00 buck over birdshot or a pistol round. No, a shotgun won't paint a wall with holes, but a 3"+ group down the end of a hallway has a higher probability of a hit to a vital organ than the 1/2" peice of lead (or smaller) finding its way to a vital. Aim small miss small, if you aim small with a shotgun you've got their whole chest, if you miss small you get most of their chest and a limb. I'll go with the 12ga and 00 buck. </rant>

edit: long story short, know your background regardless of what you use. Dont use ammo or a gun to "make up" for mistakes and poor judgment. Use what is most effective, and then do your part.

Edited December 22, 2009 by RoDan

[Guest Muttling]

"We" have? You have a mouse in your pocket?

I'll concede it is potentially lethal, and the potentially INcreases as distance DEcreases.

It is also certainly less likely to immediately STOP a threat than buckshot, though, and that's what you really want, rather than a gruesomely wounded assailant who can empty a magazine at you before he croaks. Even if he can't see while he's doing it.

- OS

LOL.....I have always enjoyed debating with you my friend and this is yet another excellent example. We don't have to agree to have a good discussion and I have tremendous respect for you because of that.

Rock on my friend.

[RoDan]

That's a good point. If a BG is engaging you while hiding behind an outside corner of your hallway or behind some furniture, you may want that extra penetration to end the attack.

Slugs aren't a bad idea either IMO, but I think I'd go with a reduced recoil round like some Wincester winlights or something. Still plenty of power to get the job done, but it wont be so overkill as to go through a bunch of walls. Plus it should be more controllable and easier for a follow up. I'd probably lean to reduced recoil loads in 00 buck as well, but I can get the normal stuff so cheap that I just practice and use it. If a woman had to use the gun, then I'd for sure go low recoil or go perhaps to a 20ga.

[Rock.45]

Great video Batman, the bottom line is what ever you we do be safe because when the round is out the tube there is no being it back . Be safe all

Edited December 22, 2009 by Rock.45

[Kelemvor]

I've seen more than a couple instances where someone was hit either in the head or center of mass, close range, by birdshot and lived. My home defense round has gotta kill, not wound. Birdshot makes a really nasty looking wound, but it just doesn't penetrate enough to reach the goodies inside the BG and it is easily stopped by bone.

That video (not the Box-o-truth one) with the two guys shooting the drywall was garbage. The first part with them shooting the drywall was okay, but when they shot the mannequin they just pointed at the hole in the shirt and said, "that will kill a guy," which doesn't even begin to actually investigate the lethality of the round. Birdshot is for little birds, if you want someone to have a chance to return fire or a chance to recover and sue you for shooting them, then feel free to use it all day long. Me, I'll just keep my wife behind me and the BG in front where the lead flies.

[molonlabetn]

I wouldn't depend on the hope of reduced penetration to prevent a loved one on the other side of a wall from being injured... that doesn't make any sense. Load up on the most effective cartridge and follow the 4 rules (which includes being sure of your target and what is beyond it).

[Oh Shoot]

Has anybody shot a "BOLO" round at a target ??? The BOLO round is a 12 gauge, it's two lead balls with a (I think a 4 inch steel wire attached to both lead balls) ??

That's only for pirates, matey - goes well with grapeshot barrage while boarding the enemy vessel. Arrrrggghhhh.

- OS

[Magiccarpetrides]

Screw a bunch of people worrying about over-penetration...the FBI reports even said this is basically a non-issue and without merit. I use Centurion Multi-Defense as my primary in the 12ga. A .65cal ball followed by 6rds of #1 buck and it holds a pretty dang tight pattern all the way to 25yds. If I hit you once, your gonna die...otherwise whats the point of pulling the trigger? Besides we all know of plenty of instances of people getting hit in the face with birdshot and living....how many have you ever heard of where someone got hit with buckshot and did the same?

[Magiccarpetrides]

Heres a good man stopper

AIM DDupleks Hexolit32 12ga 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz Expanding Slug DDupleks Hexolit32 12ga 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz Expanding Slug

Now this might be "overkill"

[Guest rbl]

Heres a good man stopper

AIM DDupleks Hexolit32 12ga 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz Expanding Slug DDupleks Hexolit32 12ga 2 3/4" 1 1/8oz Expanding Slug

Now this might be "overkill"

[kwe45919]

This should cover all the bases! awesome pics of just about every load I would want to try.

Shotgunworld.com • View topic - 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware) Examples on page 3

Awsome...make me feel better about having 2 of Nobels' #4 Law Enforcement buck in the chamber for the wife.....

Screw a bunch of people worrying about over-penetration...the FBI reports even said this is basically a non-issue and without merit. I use Centurion Multi-Defense as my primary in the 12ga. A .65cal ball followed by 6rds of #1 buck and it holds a pretty dang tight pattern all the way to 25yds. If I hit you once, your gonna die...otherwise whats the point of pulling the trigger? Besides we all know of plenty of instances of people getting hit in the face with birdshot and living....how many have you ever heard of where someone got hit with buckshot and did the same?

That's definatly good stuff. Me likes it a lot.......

Got it sittin' behind my 00 buck in the tube....

Edited December 24, 2009 by kwe45919

[Oh Shoot]

...

That's definatly good stuff. Me likes it a lot.......

Got it sittin' behind my 00 buck in the tube....

(re: Centurion Multi-Defense)

Heck, Kev, talk about collateral damage in the home, in the video, 3 of the secondary pellets were wild fliers, both times the guy fired that stuff.

- OS

[kwe45919]

(re: Centurion Multi-Defense)

Heck, Kev, talk about collateral damage in the home, in the video, 3 of the secondary pellets were wild fliers, both times the guy fired that stuff.

- OS

I saw that. Wonder why....

The Centurion patterned a little over 13in at 12yrds but the pattern left was pretty much "flower" like. I figured that a 12 to 14in spread pattern at 12yrds would be suitable for my homes' layout. The Centurion was the only one to break the 13in mark....

[Guest Biggun]

Here is a good video by Rob Pincus about wall penetration with 9mm, .45, .223 and 12ga. It's been posted before, but it's a good vid.

THE BEST DEFENSE - on the Outdoor Channel

Awesome video.

[Guest RonB]

Sorry for not posting in forever, but I logged on to look for this specific answer. It has been asked 8.2 trillion times however I have never seen a video like the first one posted. Based off that video, which is about as conclusive evidence as possible, you need to take a look at that video, determine how many walls you have between your probably shooting point and the possbile entry points of bad guys, then see how many walls are behind the badguy. If you have eight walls after the bad guy and loved ones that you want alive after the situation, it looks like about anything is good for you, but in my case, one bedroom has just 2 walls and one bedroom has 1 wall after the bad guy entry point. I currently have 00 buck in my Mossberg 590, in my case, this is too much load, I will be stepping down to bird shot tonight.

[Superman]

Here's a good read on penetration of various shotgun loads.

Shotgunworld.com • View topic - 12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware) Examples on page 3

[Smith]

Anybody ever used the 12g mini shells? Seems to be the best compromise of all considerations ......... if they work. Example :

Ammunition To Go : 20rds - 12 gauge Aguila Mini-Shell Buckshot [28970] - $12.95