New pistol - Fullsize Smith & Wesson M&P-357

[Marswolf]

I'm with you. I've threatened to move to Acapulco for the winter for years.

[molonlabetn]

Well... I got to fire 65rd through the M&P, and Mugster fired 15. The overall impression was a lack of precision on the part of the pistol, it seemed to operate in an unbalanced fashion. I need to run more ammunition through it under more controlled circumstances in order to get a feel for how accurate this pistol might be, so far the only thing I know about it is that it shoots low, compared to my XD. It requires a slightly different shooting style to accommodate for that. Also, the slide seemed to 'bounce' when it returned to battery after each shot (I was not limp-wristing it). Methinks that they do not have the correct recoil-spring rate installed.

It was not enjoyable to shoot, it was not especially accurate. However, it was very user-friendly in terms of the controls layout and ergonomics. The M&P will not replace my XD as my carry pistol.

I will update my initial post with relevant observations thus far.

Mugster, it was great to meet you and shoot some of your guns. Thank you for that. I never pass up an opportunity to shoot a 1911, and the Blackhawk was very nice as well. hope to run into you again out at the range (most likely in the spring, when the days are longer).

[TGO David]

I think you're going to find that it's the shooter and not the weapon. I was the exact opposite going FROM that family of handgun to the HK P2000. The M&P tends to be very accurate after you get the hang of it. I shot some of my best scores in USPSA using my M&P 40 and will be picking up a M&P 9 from Joe in a few weeks so that I can resume using one for such purposes.

[Guest Mugster]

Well... I got to fire 65rd through the M&P, and Mugster fired 15. The overall impression was a lack of precision on the part of the pistol, it seemed to operate in an unbalanced fashion. I need to run more ammunition through it under more controlled circumstances in order to get a feel for how accurate this pistol might be, so far the only thing I know about it is that it shoots low, compared to my XD. It requires a slightly different shooting style to accommodate for that. Also, the slide seemed to 'bounce' when it returned to battery after each shot (I was not limp-wristing it). Methinks that they do not have the correct recoil-spring rate installed.

It was not enjoyable to shoot, it was not especially accurate. However, it was very user-friendly in terms of the controls layout and ergonomics. The M&P will not replace my XD as my carry pistol.

I will update my initial post with relevant observations thus far.

Mugster, it was great to meet you and shoot some of your guns. Thank you for that. I never pass up an opportunity to shoot a 1911, and the Blackhawk was very nice as well. hope to run into you again out at the range (most likely in the spring, when the days are longer).

Likewise. I tell you, I really liked that AK-74 replica...Or I think that is what it must be. Shooting the M&P was, well, odd for me as well. Holding it, it felt better than the XD or a sig to me, and felt good overall...a natural pointer, imo. I do not like the takeup on the trigger, but the let off was fine. Once it fired, the recoil force was ok as well, but it just felt unusual and made some odd noises. Double tapping was seemingly difficult, mostly because I was distracted.

Maybe you can get the spec on the recoil spring that is stock and measure the spring weight? Perhaps it is out of spec.

There is an indoor range in the burro. I'm not a fan of indoor ranges, but evidently you can rent an MP5 for an hour for $25 bucks. Might be something to go do on a cold day.

[TGO David]

www.speedshooterspecialties.com

They sell replacement guide rods and springs in varying weights. I used their stainless guide rod and a few different springs in my M&P 40 depending on the ammo that I was shooting. Their tungsten guide rod is a nice piece and adds some extra heft to your gun to control flip, but you might not be able to use it in a 3-Gun competition if they require the gun to be the same weight as stock.

Regardless, give the M&P a chance to impress you.

[molonlabetn]

Likewise. I tell you, I really liked that AK-74 replica...Or I think that is what it must be. Shooting the M&P was, well, odd for me as well. Holding it, it felt better than the XD or a sig to me, and felt good overall...a natural pointer, imo. I do not like the takeup on the trigger, but the let off was fine. Once it fired, the recoil force was ok as well, but it just felt unusual and made some odd noises. Double tapping was seemingly difficult, mostly because I was distracted.

Maybe you can get the spec on the recoil spring that is stock and measure the spring weight? Perhaps it is out of spec.

There is an indoor range in the burro. I'm not a fan of indoor ranges, but evidently you can rent an MP5 for an hour for $25 bucks. Might be something to go do on a cold day.

I'm actually taking my wife to that range, On Target, today... I've helped wear out their machine-guns numerous times in the past

www.speedshooterspecialties.com

They sell replacement guide rods and springs in varying weights. I used their stainless guide rod and a few different springs in my M&P 40 depending on the ammo that I was shooting. Their tungsten guide rod is a nice piece and adds some extra heft to your gun to control flip, but you might not be able to use it in a 3-Gun competition if they require the gun to be the same weight as stock.

Regardless, give the M&P a chance to impress you.

Oh, I'm not giving up on it yet... I just had my expectations too high for the first outing. I don't intend to change anything mechanical about the gun until I've had 500-1000rd through her, and still have the same impression. I would like to do something about the sights though...

[TGO David]

The stock sights stink. I liked my 10-8 sight from www.10-8performance.com and will order another for the M&P 9 when I get around to picking one up.

Another good source for all things M&P is www.mp-store.com

I've learned the hard way that most of the time when I suck with a particular gun, it's me and not the gun. Some guns just exacerbate inherent flaws in my shooting style and that leads to greater frustration.

But then there's that stupid LEM trigger on the first HK P2000 that I bought...

[Marswolf]

I've learned the hard way that most of the time when I suck with a particular gun, it's me and not the gun.

That is generally my experience too. But I've never shot an MP.

But then there's that stupid LEM trigger on the first HK P2000 that I bought...

That LEM trigger seems to be a problem with a lot of people, including me. I suck on the DA USP trigger too. Glad the V3 worked for you.

[molonlabetn]

Another 50rd downrange, I wish I'd gotten to shoot more... oh well. Same overall impression, but I am beginning to get used to it. Better light and closer range (15 yd instead of 25) let me get a good feel for where the POI is vs. POA. This is the first pistol I've ever had which took more than 2 boxes of ammo to get comfortable with, it has potential, grouping pretty well by the end, but it doesn't seem to be a natural fit for me... I'll have to work with it some more. Side note: the M&P had one failure which might be attributed to limp-wristing... but when my wife was shooting it, she had one round not fully go into battery (surprisingly, the striker still came forward and struck the rim of the case). I don't like that the pistol will allow out-of-battery firing, I am sure that if the primer had been struck that the case would have blown out. The rim was not under the extractor claw, but apparently the firing pin could reach far enough to significantly indent the brass.

On another note, my wife, her dad and I had a blast shooting our other guns... Misty really got the hang of my Marlin '94, she loved it. And we all got to have some black-powder fun with her dad's BP revolver. The AK ran flawlessly, as usual...

[Marswolf]

when my wife was shooting it, she had one round not fully go into battery (surprisingly, the striker still came forward and struck the rim of the case). I don't like that the pistol will allow out-of-battery firing, I am sure that if the primer had been struck that the case would have blown out. The rim was not under the extractor claw, but apparently the firing pin could reach far enough to significantly indent the brass.

That's not good.

[TGO David]

Let's keep this thread on topic.

[creeky]

Hey "molonlabetn"...

i've been re-reading these posts and was wondering, what has

gotten you interested in moving from the 239, to the M&P?

Is it more of a weight and carry issue? Or is it still

looking for something that works best for you.

I know that after shooting a Glocks a few weekends ago, it has made

me think more highly of them as well. As well as reevaulate my

daily carry needs.

(Glad to see your still sticking with the .357 sig though! We

need all theshooters we can get to bring down ammo prices! )

[molonlabetn]

Hey "molonlabetn"...

i've been re-reading these posts and was wondering, what has

gotten you interested in moving from the 239, to the M&P?

Is it more of a weight and carry issue? Or is it still

looking for something that works best for you.

I know that after shooting a Glocks a few weekends ago, it has made

me think more highly of them as well. As well as reevaulate my

daily carry needs.

(Glad to see your still sticking with the .357 sig though! We

need all theshooters we can get to bring down ammo prices! )

Well...

I decided to sell the P239 due to the low capacity, high weight, and because I wanted something with a consistent trigger pull shot-to-shot... like my XD.

I had been harassing the fine folks at Hero-Gear for months about when the M&P 357 would be on the market... So, when they recieved the first one, it took the P239's place immediatly.

So far, I think that it was a worthwhile upgrade... having all of the features which I had wished that the P239 had. The only draw-back is that I have been made very aware when shooting it how spoiled I was by what natural shooters the Sig and the XD are. The M&P will take some getting used to.

.357sig is my favorite caliber, by far... I don't see myself ever getting rid of my XD-357. It is like an extension of myself, and I only seem to get better with it the more I shoot. In hindsight, I probably should have gotten a 5" XD-9 to use for 'gaming' and plinking... and kept the XD-357 for carry. That may be what I end up with eventually, to replace the M&P (not that I'm in a hurry to get rid of it).

[molonlabetn]

After about 300rd now downrange, I have not changed my opinions, stated in the first post... but, I have become more accustomed to the trigger, and have found that I shoot much better with the large back-strap insert. I hope to shoot another 100-200rd through the gun this weekend... and give some other folks a chance to try it.

The M&P does not seem to have the accuracy potential of the XD, or at least is not as natural for me to achieve the same accuracy with it as I was the XDs I have owned.

[Marswolf]

Again, I haven't shot an M&P. I gotta do that.

I found that the XD feels "crisp", if that makes any sense. Another reason I traded my G26 for an XD-9 sub. The XD wasn't just repeatable, if just had a feeling of being repeatable. No nonsense. Kinda' a touchy-feely thing. It felt more Germanic than French.

[molonlabetn]

Well Mars, if you prefer the XD trigger to the Glock trigger, you'll likely prefer the XD trigger to the M&P trigger... it's plastic and a bit crunchy. They both have similar creep, but the XD is smoother (admittedly, I've got a couple thousand more rounds through the XD than the M&P, so that might change a bit over time). But box-stock vs. box-stock, the XD has the better trigger.

[Marswolf]

I think I've mentioned the guy who is a Glock nut and carries a G21 SF but says he likes the way the M&P shoots better than his Glock. I'd probably have to set up a logic matrix if the XD was thrown into the mix.

[molonlabetn]

I have no doubt that the 21SF shoots fine... of all the models that Glock makes, the G21SF was surprisingly more natural to hold, for me, than any other (except perhaps the G36). But, comparing triggers is a crapshoot... I think the Glock trigger sucks, and the M&P trigger is similar (but certainly better), but the next guy might think that the XD trigger sucks, if they are used to shooting Glocks/M&Ps.

Folks like that probably consider 1911 triggers to be inferior to Glocks' too... oh well... (more XDs for me)

[TGO David]

I greatly prefer the XD trigger to the M&P trigger. So there.

[molonlabetn]

I expect to be contemplating to replace the M&P with a 5" XD-9 within a year... maybe less. Perhaps once S&W is not offering the rebate & free mags anymore.

But, then again, I might start warming up to this gun and decide that I want a 5" M&P 9mm when they are released... I've heard good things about aftermarket trigger jobs.

[TGO David]

I had Dan Burwell do a trigger job on my M&P 40. It was very nice, but it made the take-up even longer (nothing he can do about that) and I never could quite get used to that aspect.

I have an XD-9 Tactical now for gaming and love it. I might do the PistolGear "drop-in trigger job" after I've had some more range time with it, but honestly I am tempted to just leave it alone. It's quite nice where it's at.

[molonlabetn]

I've got a reduced power striker spring on-order from Wolff... 5lb vs. stock 6lb... I'll see how that does, in conjunction with some polishing compound on the trigger bar, firing pin safety, and sear.

Saturday at On-Target was the first time I'd really had the chance to shoot the XD and M&P side-by-side for accuracy... And the result was overwhelmingly in favor of the XD. I think it may have had alot to do with the M&P's trigger breaking so roughly. Rapid-fire was radically different for both. Double-taps with the XD are quick, and though there is significantly more muzzle rise, the XD settles instantly back to the original POA, but the M&P's muzzle seems to bounce... likely a result of the heavy slide returning to battery slowly after the recoil impulse is complete. So, my evaluation is the the M&P recoils more softly, but also more unpredictably. The M&P's trigger reset is very nice.

[molonlabetn]

I got the reduced-power striker spring in last night... it makes a noticable difference, though it (understandably) didn't change the 'crunchiness' of the trigger, it certainly lightened it slightly.

Now for some polishing compound...

[molonlabetn]

Made and interesting discovery today....

I was inspecting the 357sig brass I had collected and brought home most recently, and noticed that some of the cases seemed a bit more bulged, and the neck moved higher... about half of them were like this, and many of those had off-center primer-strikes.

I have to assume that these brass were fired from the M&P, since none of the brass I'd ever collected or inspected before looked like this... and on top of that, I can't get any of them to fit in the XD's chamber, but they will slide right in the M&P's chamber.

Not a good sign, to me... because that means the M&P's chamber has been throated from the factory significantly, hence the enlargement. Thankfully, the M&P's barrel is fully supported (though loosly)... so, at least the bulging is uniform, just above the thickest part of the webbing.

[Marswolf]

Hmmmmmmm.