What do I need to know?

[HillbillyMafia]

Went to the range today with magicarpetrides and ge brought his bullet hoise. It was like dropping a coke fiend in Columbia. After about 300 rounds downrange, I think I want a machine gun, automatic weapon, whayever you call it. So what do I need to know?

I am thinking UZI, m-11, Thompson, something in handgun caliber because I shoot mostly indoors. possibly mp-5 but may be out of my price range.

Would like something that has a 22 conversion available.

Also was wondering what it takes to get a Class 3 license and be able to buy non transferable new weapons. If you gpo with mutiple weapons, suppressors is this a better option?

Any help would be appreciated.

[MacGyver]

You don't need a Class III license, as their is no such thing. Owning an NFA type firearm (Machine Gun, Suppressor, Short Barrel Rifle or Short Barrel Shotgun) is as simple as paying a tax stamp per item($200 in the case of a machine gun), filling out the appropriate forms, and waiting patiently to get it approved by the ATF. The process generally takes 4-6 months these days.

[Garufa]

You don't need a Class III license, as their is no such thing.

Actually there is...for a dealer of NFA items. But you do not need one to go fully.

You just need lots of $$$ to buy and feed it and the Tax Stamp.

[Guest moreland281]

Figure Round about prices

M10 NIB $2900

M11 NIB $3300 (not a better weapon just drying up again)

Spitfire $4k

Ruger AC556 $5-6000 (7k nib)

UZI Full Size $6-7500 (NIB possible if you look around and not in a hurry)

UZI Mini $8-9000 (same as above)

Thompson 9k-11K

M16 (8-19k depending on MFG, Condition Seen a Sendra for $9K and a NIB Colt M16A2 for $18.9K)

HK MP5 14-18K (depending on condition and who did the conversion.

There are a LOT more these are just some I"m looking at myself

[Guest bkelm18]

Actually there is...for a dealer of NFA items. But you do not need one to go fully.

It's still not a "license". It's a Special Occupational Tax (SOT).

[Garufa]

It's still not a "license". It's a Special Occupational Tax (SOT).

But there still is a Class III license for dealers. One need not posess said license to own an NFA item, only pay the tax.

[HillbillyMafia]

OK, so if no licsense is needed to buy and possess "non transferable, or "dealer samples", then why cant I buy those weapons at the lower prices?

My thinking was

if the FFl is 500 and the SOT is 3000 and then you sabe 6000 to 10K on your NFA purchases in a year, why not get the FFL/sot?

if you let your FFL lapse after 3 years say, would you have to sell the Post ban NFA items you purchased dyrung the 3 yrs? Or are there certain Items you can keep after you turn in/ lapde your FFL/SOT? Can someone with an FFL purchase NFA items, specifically "dealer" utems?

Edited December 17, 2009 by Jasongar8

[Garufa]

Don't know if you've seen this, but here it is....

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/class-iii-nfa-firearms-accessories/6890-nfa-guide-what-you-need-know-about-class-iii-firearms.html

Maybe what you need to know is here, except for how to spell.

[Jasongar8]

OK, so if no licsense is needed to buy and possess "non transferable, or "dealer samples", then why cant I buy those weapons at the lower prices?

My thinking was

if the FFl is 500 and the SOT is 3000 and then you sabe 6000 to 10K on your NFA purchases in a year, why not get the FFL/sot?

if you let your FFL lapse after 3 years say, would you have to sell the Post ban NFA items you purchased dyrung the 3 yrs? Or are there certain Items you can keep after you turn in/ lapde your FFL/SOT? Can someone with an FFL purchase NFA items, specifically "dealer" utems?

I think most people missed the non-transferable part in your orginal post. To buy transferable guns you just have to pay $200 to transfer the gun to you. You might have to pay another $200 if the gun is out of state and has to be transfered in.

On to you being able to buy dealers samples. Basically you cant. It is illegal to become a dealer just to enhance your collection. You have to be a real business. ATF comes out and does compliance inspections on all FFL holders and if they show up and you have 20 dealer sample machine guns and nothing to sell they will know whats up. Save yourself alot of time and headaches and just save your money for a transferable mg.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Jasongar8

[Guest clsutton21]

Maybe what you need to know is here, except for how to spell.

Yeah, those damn blind people thinking they are allowed to type.

[Metalhead]

I think most people missed the non-transferable part in your orginal post. To buy transferable guns you just have to pay $200 to transfer the gun to you. You might have to pay another $200 if the gun is out of state and has to be transfered in.

On to you being able to buy dealers samples. Basically you cant. It is illegal to become a dealer just to enhance your collection. You have to be a real business. AFT comes out and does compliance inspections on all FFL holders and if they show up and you have 20 dealer sample machine guns and nothing to sell they will know whats up. Save yourself alot of time and headaches and just save your money for a transferable mg.

^^

This.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

Here are the options for owning full auto (excluding any legal manufacture route) I will try to be short about this as I could go on and on with all the details about each.

1. Just buy a transferable machine gun. These are guns registered into the NFA database before 1986 as civilian transferables. Or in the case of imported machine-guns were registered into the database before the close of the 1968 machine-gun amnesty.

2. Get an FFL and you can buy pre 1986 dealer samples, and once your FFL expires you can keep them! If you don't want to take advantages of the tax free transfers also get your SOT, but it is easier just to get the FFL if you don't plan on buying to many. If you want a factory MP5 for example this is the route to go as the only fully transferable German MP5s would have to be in the NFA database before 1968 as the GCA of that year banned further importation of machine guns for civilian use.

3. Get a FFL and type 3 SOT, now you can buy post-86 guns but there is a catch. You need to have a demo letter from a law enforcement agency for each post-86 dealer sample, and once your SOT expires you must get rid of all your post-86 machine guns.

So.......

If you only want a few machine guns the fully transferable route is the easiest. If you want a larger collection go with the FFL and buy pre-86 dealer samples and just let the FFL expire and keep your toys.

Edited December 17, 2009 by TwoLaneBlackTop

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

Oh, and this is from a post I made earlier, this may help...

If you don't know already what form 3, and 4 are....

Form 3 an SOT to SOT tax free transfer.

Form 4 an individual to SOT, SOT/FFL to individual*, or individual to individual tax paid transfer** total tax on a Form 4 is $200.

*An SOT or FFL can only transfer ownership on a form 4 to an individual when both parties live in the same state.

**An individual owner can only transfer to another individual when both parties live in the same state.

The scenarios you are likely to encounter are....

Scenario 1. Buy from an out of state individual. The owner of the gun files a form 4 to transfer ownership to a dealer (SOT holder) that is in your state. Once the SOT holder receives the item you fill out a form 4 and pay the dealer a fee for his transfer. Thus..... $200+$200+($ dealer transfer fee) = $400+($ dealer transfer fee)

Scenario 2. Buy from an out of state SOT. The SOT transfers the gun on a form 3 tax free. Once the SOT holder receives the item you fill out a form 4 and pay the dealer a fee for his transfer. Thus..... $200+($ dealer transfer fee)

Scenario 3. Buy from an in-state individual. A form 4 is filed by the owner of the gun directly transferring ownership to you. Thus the total cost of taxes here is just $200

Scenario 4. Buy from an in-state dealer. A form 4 is filed by the SOT or FFL directly transferring ownership to you. Thus the total cost of taxes here is $200 + TN sales tax (on an expensive item like this it is a considerable tax!)

Dealers typically charge $50 to $100 for an NFA transfer.

A form 4 typically takes 4 to 6 months as of now to get approved, a form 3 takes about 1 to 2 months. So, the total wait times are...

Scenario 1. ( 8 to 12 months )

Scenario 2. ( 5 to 8 months )

Scenario 3. ( 4 to 6 months )

Scenario 4. ( 4 to 6 months )

Even thought I had to pay the $200 tax twice and a $50 dealer transfer fee it was still much cheaper for me to buy from an out of state individual.

Most SOT holders tend to get about $500 to $1000 more on a gun than an individual will. I bought a MAC-10 from a dealer once because the price was about $700 under market value but it was not really his, it was a consignment sale and the gun was still on a form 4.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

By the way, I am writing an article about buying a first sub-gun. It will give an overview of the various affordable options.

In short though, if you can afford the $6500 to $7500 price go with an Uzi. I did and I have never looked back with any regret. If you can swing $4000 and don't mind a non factory original configuration get a M11/9 and a Lage upper. If you want a historic design for $4000 and less get a Sten Mk. II tube gun.

[HillbillyMafia]

Yeah, those damn blind people thinking they are allowed to type.

LOL, and I type just as bad in the daylight

OK, lets see if I have this then,

An FFL can only buy pre-86 Samples, which are not a great deal really, so would be better off buying transferable mg's

FFL/SOT can buy post-86 sa,ples, but has to surrender them if you let the SOT lapse and you have to get a letter from LE for each item PIA

jason, twolane, and all appreciate your responses

Edited December 17, 2009 by HillbillyMafia

[Magiccarpetrides]

two-lane....lots of good info there...keep up the good work!

[~48_South~]

For your first entry level MG or SMG I would go with the M11/9 its the cheapest SMG on the market now it does however bring a whole new meaning to a bullet hose. But Im sure if you picked one up off of someone used you could get one that has a Lage Slow Fire Upper included which completely changes the weapon into a very accurate and stable weapon. Also Lage makes a 22 conversion for this gun and so does Practical Solutions.

[DaveTN]

Not that it matters for class III… but you can’t just buy an FFL. If you could I would have one.

[TNZ71]

Careful, Machine guns are like Lay's potato chips. It's hard to have just one. I hope not to get in trouble here but a man in Jackson (not me) has an MP5 (HK SP89) with a registered sear and suppressor FS. Search Bowers' SubGuns.com make him fair offer. In state form 4 easiest way to go.