Whats your take on 10mm

[GLOCKMEISTER]

what load in 41 will outperform a comparable load in 10mm????

Well lets see, now im not a reloader guy, but I have been doing this stuff for about 25 years or so and I have stayed im more then my share of Holiday Inn expresses in my life.

So lets compare apples to apples.... velocity(feet per second) and energy(foot pounds)!!!

175 grain Remington loaded with the same powder, out of the same 4in barrel.

velocity(feet per second)......... energy(foot pounds)

muzzle... 50 yards... 100 yards~~~ muzzle...50 yards... 100 yards

10mm: 1290 1141 1037 649 506 418

41mag: 1250 1120 1029 607 488 412

There you have it... apples to apples and oranges to oranges 10mm thru the same amount of barrel, same bullet grains, and same load out performs 41 magnum... period.

[guyandarifle]

I like my 10's but as for it's power I relate that to what I can get in other auto cartridges as opposed to try comparing it to top revolver loads. Since DT is pretty much the indisputed king of 10mm loaders let's look at their top factory loading.

200gr gas checked hardcast at 1300fps. 750ftlbs muzzle/542 ftlbs@100yds

For those that would prefer a bit more velocity/energy at the expense of a lighter bullet Buffalo Bore loads a 180gr JHP to 1350 for 782 ftlbs.

Now, as for the 41/44 Magnums DT loads a 180gr bullet to 1570fps out of a 6" barrel for over 1000ftlbs and their weakest .44 is still over 1000ftlbs.

Buffalo Bore offers several different loadings for the .41, the least of which is a 170gr JHP which is still over 1/2 ton at the muzzle. Their "standard heavy" .44 stuff starts at 270gr with over 1200ftlbs and goes up to 305gr hardcast and over 1300ftlbs. If you've got a .44 that can handle it (like my Redhawk) you can opt for their .44 +P load with a 340gr hardcast and over 1600ftlbs.

Upshot is that the 10mm can make for a serious handful of heat in a high cap auto. Don't go getting snooty about power figures with the big bore revolver guys though since if they want to they can buy factory or handload sterner stuff than any 10.

[I_Like_Pie]

Got this info from GUNS & AMMO. Today it is popular with handgun hunters who think--rightly, I believe--that it can do anything a .44 can and some say even better. The standard factory load is a 210-grain jacketed hollowpoint at around 1,300 fps, but at various times bullet weights from 170 to 250 grains have been offered.

My standard hunting load is a 240 grain .44 magnum SWC with 21.6 grains of 2400 powder. Can shot tens of thousands of these with no ill effect to the guns. Out of my T/C and blackhawks it is pushing a little over 1500 fps. For pigs I use a 310 grain (3....not 2) Lead bullet going 1150 fps. not knocking the design of any 10mm gun or semi-auto, but these loads would simply destroy these guns very quickly.

When talking application....they (10 vs revolver magnums) can do similar things. But balistically they are not identical when you get into the relm of handloading for performance. Not even close. And it does make a difference in bowling pin and silouette matches where big, heavy bullets traveiing as fast as possible wil win the match or Bear country guns where there are more proven bullets for such targets in magnum guns.

For practical self defense or range shooting the 10mm being a considerably more sane choice.

[Guest BigShot]

Early on I got hooked on hot loaded 44 mags. Easily popping cans around at 100 yards with a little hold over and hot loading 180 grainers. When the Bren Tens came out, I got a couple and was fortunate enough to finally get magazines for them and WOW how those pistols performed with the Norma 200 grain factory loads. They gave me a whole new respect for auto-loaders. Those Brens could handle the long shots just as well and were fun to shoot and shoot and shoot.

All that said... there are BIG differences between a 44 and a 10. Case size and bullet selections primarily. When a 10mm is maxed a 44mag can keep on taking more. That's all that can be said about that.

For me, the 10mm is what made me an auto lover in the early 80s. The Colt Delta really was okay but it never had the magic those Bren Tens had. Here, I found an old pic....

[Guest Pvt.Joker]

I don't quite "get it" with the 10mm autoloaders anymore. I agree that the Bren 10 was a nice looking firearm and is a collectable, but if you are wanting a big-bore autoloader in an odd and an expensive-to-feed caliber, why not simply buy a Desert Eagle in .50ae and be done with it? Plus, you can get lots of other caliber changes for it, too. (And NO, I don't own either a 10mm or a .50ae; it just seems like an obvious alternative to the 10mm to me)

[Guest Buzz87]

I don't quite "get it" with the 10mm autoloaders anymore. I agree that the Bren 10 was a nice looking firearm and is a collectable, but if you are wanting a big-bore autoloader in an odd and an expensive-to-feed caliber, why not simply buy a Desert Eagle in .50ae and be done with it? Plus, you can get lots of other caliber changes for it, too. (And NO, I don't own either a 10mm or a .50ae; it just seems like an obvious alternative to the 10mm to me)

:2cents:My husband and I held both several 10mm yesterday and the Desert Eagle .50. I did not fire either caliber so I can not compare that but as far as handling either gun, the 10's were much more manageable.

That DE is just ridiculous.

It is heavy and cumbersome and of course, has a huge grip on it.

I own and shoot fairly big guns and I prefer to have a gun I can use, not one to just look at.

I don't really think it would be a problem to shoot either 10mm or .50, but there is really no way I would want to carry the DE.50. the 10's were however decently sized and weighted and may be fun to shoot.

[LngRngShtr]

I used a 10mm in IPSC for about 5 years a dual port compensated open class gun with BARSTO barrel and red dot scope guiding it.. it took me to B class and the guy I bought it from made A class with it and it still shoots 1 hole groups at 25 yds.

Yes I reload and the point for IPSC was I downloaded it to still make Major PF (back when it was 175 so I ran about 185 comfortable or 195+ whe I wanted to make a point) and everyone around me was longthroating their 40's to 10mm length to make them work back in the early 90's in hicap 1911 frames and to hold enough powder. I could hit poppers 4" up from the base pin and take them down ( one club liked hanging penalty targets behind steel)

The 10mm is a "reloaders special" to get it to shine like it used to before ammo makers quietly dubbed it a 40 S&W Long but maybe with the BREN TEN coming back out and folks like DoubleTap it may come back if enough shooters create the market demand.. let Winchester lose enough market share to DT and see what happens to that Silvertip loading.

As far as the "But a .41 Mag." argument.... back in 1966 George Herter intro'd a .401 Revolver the Powermag yeah its ugly but it will do anything your beloved .41 will do and it is a.......

10mm

Herter's .401 PowerMag

And if either of these don't hit hard enough... well I have an '06 for those problems

John

[DavidH1]

Since I bought a Kimber SIS while on our Anniversary outing, my wife(Buzz87) said she's getting a Delta Elite and I can look at it:(

Edited December 23, 2009 by DavidH1

[Guest Buzz87]

Since I bought a Kimber SIS while on our Anniversary outing, my wife(Buzz87) said she's getting a Delta Elite and I can look at it:(

I said MAYBE you can look at it. IF you buy my ammo, you can watch me fire it.

[molonlabetn]

10mm is arguably the most powerful semi-auto cartridge which is 'practical' to carry for self-defense (as far as the size of the gun and controllability of recoil is concerned). 45 Super is arguably an equal and .460 Rowland is more powerful... but .460 Rowland is punishing and requires an effective recoil system and compensator.

As far as practicality goes, for target shooting... it's like shooting .40s&w for the cost of .45acp. Just depends on the size hole you want to make, since none if any of the target loads are as hot as the self defense and hunting loads.

[Guest DeadMan1]

+1 on the 10mm, best round out there as far as I'm concerned. I can't figure out how somebody who actually owns a good pistol in 10mm would ever say anything bad about it.

The Glocks seem fine if you like the grip and look. I'm a third gen Smith man myself. Haven't had any trouble getting plenty of ammo online during the shortage. Most times it was cheaper than .357 mag or .45 ACP ammo that I purchased at the same time. Plus the 10mm beats up on both of these popular rounds. Not to mention the .40 cal bullet seems to be known for pretty good accuracy. Anyhow, here's my three.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

When the FBI tested this round it was well over 25+ years ago. If I am not mistaking in only two platforms. It had issues with the recoil and performance from those platforms.

Performace was great.. your trying to say that durability was not good.. you should go back and do some reaserch on that friend.. that was not the reason that the FBI went away from the S&W 1076. Yes.. there was a problem with the decocker.. but that was fixed on all of them.. under warrenty and there wasn't anymore problems after that.. yes it did have some recoil due to the hot loading of the original Norma ammo.

But if you really want to know what happened.. go to the Smith % Wesson forums and do some research.. and you will find out what really happened.. it was a law suit.. from whom? .. Glock if I remember right.

[R1100R]

Froggy

I bow to your knowledge learned over at the S&W forum. You might want to read the actual published paper from the FBI. I would love to see the item about the Glock law suit.

The Glock 20 was intoduced in 91 and the 29 in 1997. Well after the trials.

As far as the 1076 goes it was a big pistol and a lot of agents couldn't get their hands around it. Thus causing issues according to my family and friends with the agency. There are still some that carry the 1076 till this day.

You hear the straight poop at FLETC Glynco from the instructors.

Edited December 25, 2009 by R1100R

[Guest BigShot]

Froggy

As far as the 1076 goes it was a big pistol and a lot of agents couldn't get their hands around it.

Sounds like they needed a wah-wambulance..

[threeshot]

Froggy

I bow to your knowledge learned over at the S&W forum. You might want to read the actual published paper from the FBI. I would love to see the item about the Glock law suit.

The Glock 20 was intoduced in 91 and the 29 in 1997. Well after the trials.

As far as the 1076 goes it was a big pistol and a lot of agents couldn't get their hands around it. Thus causing issues according to my family and friends with the agency. There are still some that carry the 1076 till this day.

You hear the straight poop at FLETC Glynco from the instructors.

Did the FBI consider providing an option other than the 10mm for the personnel that has small hands or found the recoil of the 10mm too severe?

Just reading the TGO proves that one gun size or caliber does not fit or work for all people.

[Alleycat72]

I shoot a Kimber Eclipse Custom II. I loaded 500 rounds for hunting and play and got 100 rounds of Winchester 175 silvertips for carry. It shoots unbelievably well. I took It hunting yesterday so I could test the effectiveness of my carry ammo and got a surprise. I shot a 150 lb doe at 20 yds and got full penetration. Not what I expected from personal defense ammo. There was a lot of internal damage. It's got to be a hell of a man stopper. I may need to get a bullet that is a little lighter on the construction.

[R1100R]

Did the FBI consider providing an option other than the 10mm for the personnel that has small hands or found the recoil of the 10mm too severe?

Just reading the TGO proves that one gun size or caliber does not fit or work for all people.

In the intial test there were a few calibers tested. From that the 10MM was picked. Then the testing went to what platform for the 10MM.

Eventually that is what the 40 S&W came from. Long story, short version here:

10mm Auto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Guest DeadMan1]

Sounds like they needed a wah-wambulance..

must have been tiny little FBI agents. My 1076 has thinner grips than any 1911 or Glock I've owned. Just sayin...

[R1100R]

must have been tiny little FBI agents. My 1076 has thinner grips than any 1911 or Glock I've owned. Just sayin...

Makes you wonder of the politics involved. A 1076 is coming up on my short list of one to get. Along with a Mdl 39 or 59. I don't have a S&W

Auto yet. I held a M&P 9c the other day and it felt great.

[Guest Buzz87]

I agree about the size. All the 10's I looked at were as small or smaller than my .45's. I don't know about the recoil as I haven't fired one but my Kimber packs quite a punch and unless you are firing a gun for a job or fun, the recoil doesn't matter as long as the bullet goes where I point it!

[DavidH1]

The only 10MM I own is a GLOCK 20, bought it around the 1994 ban time & I've never fired it !!!

Why not?

[Guest Buzz87]

Why not?

[willis68]

The only 10MM I own is a GLOCK 20, bought it around the 1994 ban time & I've never fired it !!!

you seem to have a few guns that you never fire, you are missing all of the fun they are tools and meant to be used, carried, scuffed up, I think you would be shocked to see how I treat my High end carry 1911's

Edited December 27, 2009 by willis68

[Guest hickok]

I have a Glock 20 and a Glock 29. Both are fun to shoot, even with hot ammo. Guess I'm more likely to trust a Glock to hold up under 10mm pressures than the other guns available, but I could be very wrong about the others.

I've had no trouble stocking up on Glock 10mm magazines, and if you load your own ammo, it's no problem getting hot loads or finding ammo. In fact, it's easier to find the large pistol primers than the small pistol primers.

I still have qualms about carrying 10mm outside the farm much. I know the two schools of thought on the "courtroom overkill" factor with the 10mm. Whether it should be a concern or not, it's easy enough to carry something that's likely going to work just as well and is a more commonly accepted round. AFter all, I woudn't want to carry a "dangerous" bullet.

[frankmako]

good gun, but ammo is hard to find.