Range report needed: guns and gear expo,

[HillbillyMafia]

Magic and I left earlly to get down there, with the rain and traffic conditions, I dont think my heart could have taken all the excitement of the 6 hour druve. Anyone else ever ridden with Magic? Helps to close your eyes even if your blind. LOL

We gave up and backtracked to the expo show in knoxville. Saw a couple camp 9's I was interested in, and then found a S&W Model 41, ore-73 that I really wanted. but at $1300Logic prevailed and I decided that the child support I would have to paid over the next years would have put the cost too high. Nice show though.

Talked to the wife and we will be coming down for the Weekend at the next show in March. she said it is close enough to Chattanooga to go shopping for the day (Wait...wonder if it would be cheaper to get the moidel 41 after all:). I am sad I missed the first show, but I know the next one will be even better. was looking forward to seeing Joe's ar15 lowers in those funky colors and talking to someone about a gas piston upperm which I am interested in. AND wanted to see that BDCscope that barrett has put out, but nonone wants to get a sample of because of the price

[Guest Straight Shooter]

I give all involved an A for trying really hard to do something good like this. I look forward to the event growing each and every time. My only complaint is PLEASE!, have the venders just go ahead and put the gunshow price on the stuff, instead of them having to tell everyone that walks by that "this is tier pricing...Over x is x off,and anything over y is y off"..ect. Just put the dang price on the stuff!

Otherwise, Im sure itll get bigger and better as time goes along.

[Kenstaroni]

Thanks everyone for the comments about Hoplite Haversack. I have included some info for you all....

The folks at Hoplite Haversack, Jim and Elizabeth Rushing, are native Middle Tennesseans and are long time friends of mine. Elizabeth and my Aunt were childhood friends, and she was even there the day I was born..lol

They live in Montana now, however like to spend time in TN during the Winter months and at various other times during the year. Because of thier passion for firearms and the 2nd amendment, they decided selling ammo would be good way to help make a little extra money to pay for thier travel expenses to and from TN during the year. They aren't out to make a living off ammo sales, and enjoy doing it as much as anything. Also, I believe one of Jim's long time friends works for or owns HSM.

Both Jim and Elizabeth are fantastic, honest, christian people and have always been great to me over the years. They are a good example of a "mom and pop" small business, so if anyone else purchased some ammo from them at the show, I'm sure they appreciated it.

They are new to the gun shows, as this was only thier second one I believe. As they get more experience they will probably be better at providing the ammo people want, in the quantities they want, and also pricing it as competitively as possible.

They don't have a website because they are only selling at gun shows and do not sell online at the moment. They can drop ship and take phone orders I believe, and since they are from Montana, I don't think you'll have to pay TN tax if an order is shipped to you.

I recommended to them at the show that they join TGO as a sponsor since they are only doing gun shows in TN right now. I'm going to talk to them this week and get the ball rolling on this for them if possible.

Below is some info I pulled off of various websites regarding HSM Ammo. None of the info is from HSM's website or anyone affiliated with them.

If you have any questions about Haversack or HSM ammo let me know and I'll be glad to pass them along to Jim and Elizabeth until they get setup on here.

-Kenny

"Tucked away in the beautiful Bitterroot Valley of Western Montana is HSM Inc. Located approximately 25 miles south of Missoula in Stevensville, HSM is one of the leading independent suppliers of ammunition for law enforcement agencies throughout the country and is capable of supplying a full line of quality ammunition along with gun care products and accessories.

HSM provides ammunition to Federal and State agencies, Game and Fish Departments, College Security and most other law enforcement agencies around the country. The company has a very active brass exchange program, which allows agencies to procure quality ammunition at competitive prices.

For many years HSM has provided sniper and counter-sniper ammunition to law enforcement agencies in .223, .308, .30-06, 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum. They are capable of manufacturing most specialty ammunition and have expanded our sniper ammunition line to include the manufacture of factory new 50 Caliber ammunition. HSM's new facility has greatly expanded production capacity and enhanced ability to produce quality ammo."

"HSM, or the Hunting Shack munitions is well known for providing materials to the leading ammunition names like Hornady, Sierra, PMC, Nosler, Barnes, and many more. When it comes to precision and accuracy HSM is the leader in American ammunition."

AR-15 Armory.com Review:

"Never shot their (HSM) pistol ammo, but I have bought a lot of .204 Ruger and .223 rifle ammo and it is first class and accurate."

Edited December 14, 2009 by Kenstaroni

[Guest Guardian5]

Greetings,

Drove down to the show from Nashville on Sunday. The show was very good.

Good things:

Top end equipment. - This was a very good opportunity to learn about items. The people manning the booths seemed more knowledgeable about their products, especially noteworthy was the bipod company and the suppressor manufacturer.

The Montana ammunition booth was quite impressive. I hope they come back next time.

The AIS simulator was fabulous.

The building size was great.

Suggestion items:

The lighting of the building made it feel smaller. Better lighting would also have made the overall atmosphere happier.

More activities that allow the vendors to highlight their items. Things like fashion shows to display new gear carrying pouches, or molle gear. Reloading discussions/seminars to highlight the advantages/ new methods of getting some of that gear.

Showcase the sporting side of firearms. Clay shooting/ IDPA/ 3 Gun matches generate excitement for their sports and give a reason for additional purchases of equipment.

Especially the latest and greatest equipment.

Overall, now knowing what to expect, if the next quarter's show just replicated this one, I would recommend it for people to attend. It was a quality experience.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Guardian5

[Guest 2000Z3M]

It was great meeting all of y'all. I hope to beable to make it to the next one. I had a blast. If you didnt know I was Mclovin

I certainly mean no disrespect to any of the workers or good folks putting this on. For me, it was an hour and a half drive from Nashville and wasn't worth it in my opinion.

I looked at the tables and prices. I was prepared to leave with any of the following, some commonly found at most shows and some obviously not...

-economical pump shotgun - very few shotguns at this event and nothing below $400 at the hero-gear booth there were quite a few, I know for a fact that there was a NIB one for 279

-red dot sight or scope - Trijicon was the only table with any of these, way beyond my price range. No other red dots or scopes that I could find at the entire show.

-mosin rifle - only one found, was $599 with scope... enough said?there was a used one at the hero-gear area on one of the round spinners, didnt see the cost but im 99.9% sure it wasnt 599

-mauser rifle - one m48 found but it wasn't for me, priced reasonable at $149 though.

-22LR AR Conversion mags - none to be found, cmmg nor black dog.

-Sub $100 stripped AR lower - none to be found, none even in the low $100's that I could find.HG had about 100 or so spikes priced at 109

-sig p6/p225 mags - none to be found

-standard AR sling - none to be found, only gimmick slings.the dude with the mollie stockings had some

-misc SKS parts or accessories - none to be found right behind the check out at the HG booth there was a display of tapco stuff all for 20% off

There were plenty of high-end $1500-3000 ARs there but I didn't see a single one that was below $1000. Again, at the HG booth, there were a few under 1000

see red, if this is out of my realm feel free to edit

Edited December 14, 2009 by 2000Z3M

[Guest Orionsic]

AIS Simulator was kinda cool.

The assfaces shooting back at you were kinda slow..

Barrett's presence, very much so needed.. Had the displays out. Always dominant.

ARs were overpriced about 15%. Insulting.

One booth had a display of competition rifles. Very neat to see.

I would have liked to see support from the active duty stations in the resulting areas. Why wasnt the Air Force there? Or the Marines? The Army was represented by the commanding NCO from Murfreesboro Recruit Station, aside in one open section of the building.

What can TGO do for the active military next year? What about the honor guard(s)?

[Guest JHatmaker]

Thanks everyone for the comments about Hoplite Haversack. I have included some info for you all....

The folks at Hoplite Haversack, Jim and Elizabeth Rushing, are native Middle Tennesseans and are long time friends of mine. Elizabeth and my Aunt were childhood friends, and she was even there the day I was born..lol

They live in Montana now, however like to spend time in TN during the Winter months and at various other times during the year. Because of thier passion for firearms and the 2nd amendment, they decided selling ammo would be good way to help make a little extra money to pay for thier travel expenses to and from TN during the year. They aren't out to make a living off ammo sales, and enjoy doing it as much as anything. Also, I believe one of Jim's long time friends works for or owns HSM.

Both Jim and Elizabeth are fantastic, honest, christian people and have always been great to me over the years. They are a good example of a "mom and pop" small business, so if anyone else purchased some ammo from them at the show, I'm sure they appreciated it.

They are new to the gun shows, as this was only thier second one I believe. As they get more experience they will probably be better at providing the ammo people want, in the quantities they want, and also pricing it as competitively as possible.

They don't have a website because they are only selling at gun shows and do not sell online at the moment. They can drop ship and take phone orders I believe, and since they are from Montana, I don't think you'll have to pay TN tax if an order is shipped to you.

I recommended to them at the show that they join TGO as a sponsor since they are only doing gun shows in TN right now. I'm going to talk to them this week and get the ball rolling on this for them if possible.

Below is some info I pulled off of various websites regarding HSM Ammo. None of the info is from HSM's website or anyone affiliated with them.

If you have any questions about Haversack or HSM ammo let me know and I'll be glad to pass them along to Jim and Elizabeth until they get setup on here.

-Kenny

Thanks for the info Kenny, they seemed to be great folks from the talking we did. I'm glad they'll be doing more TN shows. I wanted to get some of their .223 but couldn't swing 500 rounds this time. Elizabeth said they beg the HSM folks to let them sell the .223 and .45 in singles, but right now want them to move those calibers in bulk (I can understand since those two rounds are in great demand at the moment).

I can't wait to try out their .308 in the Savage I got from you. It was nice meeting you, I'm sure we'll run into each other again soon.

Also, to everyone I got to meet, thanks for swinging by the booth. I hate I missed today, was really looking forward to meeting more folks.

Thanks for the pics Strick, it was nice meeting you finally and I promise next time I'll smile...

[Guest Orionsic]

The lighting of the building made it feel smaller. Better lighting would also have made the overall atmosphere happier.

What better place to host an arms 'convention' than a warehouse.

The Hello Kitty Store?

[TGO David]

H

If Joe and David are looking for pointers on a better show next time (I'm sure they aren't), I'd say stick with the same formula but try to get a few more vendors, especially for accessories like magazines and barrels. The other pointer I have is for the attendees. Next time, bring your money and your weapons. This is a gun show for crying out loud.

We're definitely interested in constructive feedback.

[TGO David]

Greetings,

The lighting of the building made it feel smaller. Better lighting would also have made the overall atmosphere happier.

Funny (i.e. frickin SAD) story about this: The lighting in the adjacent chamber occupied by the rock climbing wall was much better. Unfortunately that room has not yet been wired for electrical drops to every vendor spot.

The lighting in the room that we had used to be almost as good. However, the scumbag who was leasing the other half of the building to use as a flea market robbed our exhibit hall for $100 light bulbs to use in his flea market next door. The lights in our hall were pieced together out of spit and duct tape to make the room functional a week before the event kicked off.

Talk about panic, right?

The flea market guy ended up skipping town with a lot of debt owed to a lot of people, and essentially bilked the entire flea market contingent next door to us out of thousands of dollars. You're probably thinking "Sucks to be them" but it actually sucks to be Joe @ Hero Gear because he's stepped up and assumed the lease on the place rather than seeing all of the vendors get shoved out into the cold two weeks before Christmas.

I'm not President of the Joe Fan Club, but that really should say something about his character and should make folks wonder what the motive is when a select few are always ready and willing to heap sand on his face.

[Guest mustangdave]

David...Joe...TGO...I said it earlier and most of the posts have affirmed this. This was a good start for a new venture. If there weren't some hick up and bumps in the road I'd be wondering. I'm sure you guys were taking notes and already see things that can change or improve. I' will just say this...I doubt I'll be going to RK or Goodman shows anytime soon...I'd rather spend my time with "like minded" people not ganstas' and gunshow carneys. Hats off to you guys for pulling this off...I'll be at the next one you can bank on it.

[Guest Ben]

The vendors were solid in my opinion. Tactical Response had a lot of quality and diverse gear. Hero Gear seemed to have brought a truckload full of stuff, etc...

The PRISim simulator was a blast.

But, for my sake, I would probably not attend the next show as a vendor as I truly have nothing to sell. My only reason for being at the show was to train.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Ben

[extremescene]

As it turned out, there was zero advertisement at the front door regarding training. Not even a sign. I was told, prior to coming, that there would be something in the form of a handout at the front door, given to everyone who enters, stating that there would be Israeli Combat Training sessions at XX time each day. This did not happen.

Did you make signs or handouts and provide them to the Guns and Gear staff? Surely you didn't expect the organizers to do this for you. You should have been ready with materials. Cost aside, the organizers of any event would never have time to design and facilitate printing your promotional items.

I feel I judged the event a little too harsh, the quality products were there if you had money. It seems I may have missed a few things on my list, although I walked the place 3 times. Pricing was a problem... venders should just mark the guns closer to what they expect to sell them at. I guarantee a few people left without ever seeing the tier pricing discount charts on some of the tables. I was also shocked at the lack of prices altogether on some tables. You shouldn't have to ask for prices for an item on their table.

[Guest mustangdave]

As it turned out, there was zero advertisement at the front door regarding training. Not even a sign. I was told, prior to coming, that there would be something in the form of a handout at the front door, given to everyone who enters, stating that there would be Israeli Combat Training sessions at XX time each day. This did not happen.

I gotta agree with the previous poster...YOU shoulda had materials ready to be handed out at the gate...AS YOUR WAY OF SELF PROMOTION.

[Mike]

There were plenty of high-end $1500-3000 ARs there but I didn't see a single one that was below $1000.

You didn't look very hard...

We had a half dozen or so laid out at 825-1050. If you don't see it.. ask.

Props to David and Joe on this one. I was exhausted just doing my end of this and managing our booth. I look forward to seeing this progress as time goes on. It definitley has promise.

To those with quantity/inventory complaints.. There were quite a few of us who don't do shows at all and we are on a steep curve figuring out what to bring and do. We learned quite a bit from this experience and in the future plan to have a better showing.

-Mike

[Guest clsutton21]

You didn't look very hard...

We had a half dozen or so laid out at 825-1050. If you don't see it.. ask.

Props to David and Joe on this one. I was exhausted just doing my end of this and managing our booth. I look forward to seeing this progress as time goes on. It definitley has promise.

To those with quantity/inventory complaints.. There were quite a few of us who don't do shows at all and we are on a steep curve figuring out what to bring and do. We learned quite a bit from this experience and in the future plan to have a better showing.

-Mike

At least you guys brought plenty of ammo.

[Guest Ben]

Next time training should be advertised by the organizers. Besides that, great event

Edited December 14, 2009 by Ben

[Guest Patty]

I have to disagree. I was told by the event organizers that there would be a blurb on a handout at the enterance advertising training sessions. For this reason I did not bring anything to the event for self promotion. I was most certainly not expecting "promotional items" or material for my business from the organizers of the event. What I did expect was a general "Guns and Gear Expo" promo handout at the front door for the event itself with an included blurb about training sessions. That's all and that's what I was told would happen.

If this was not something told to me prior to attending, I most certainly would have created handouts and a sign.

It was for this reason why I wanted to have people sign up for a session PRIOR to the event. This way I would have a list of people ready to train prior to me even arriving.

I NEVER rely on others to work for me or to do for me what I should be doing. This time, since I was told that something like this would be done at the event to promote training sessions, I specifically refrained from creating my own. My mistake and lesson learned.

I personally came to your table, and you did not mention or have any handouts at your table concerning this. Had you mentioned this to me, I would of attended. All of the other vendors did have price's on there products, you being your own product should of made the adjustments that were needed at the time. Alway's be perpared.

[Guest Ben]

I personally came to your table, and you did not mention or have any handouts at your table concerning this. Had you mentioned this to me, I would of attended. All of the other vendors did have price's on there products, you being your own product should of made the adjustments that were needed at the time. Alway's be perpared.

I had decided by the middle of Saturday that the sessions were not going to happen.

After mentioning the sessions to 30 different people (mostly staff and vendors) and hearing that people simply wanted to get home at the end of the day, I realized that it was a bust.

No big deal. I learned a lesson.

You are correct though, I should have brought my own handouts.

[Guest Gopher6]

Patty, I have to disagree with you. Saturday morning there were a lot of vendors that didn't have prices marked on their wares. Some of the prices that were marked were so high as to discourge any thought of negotiation. If a vendor can't or won't price his products, he's going to get pretty short shift from me unless he's got exactly what I've "gotta have".

[Guest clsutton21]

And I don't believe this forum is a place to have a vendor disagreement. It's a personal matter between David/Joe and yourself.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

As I said to David a few months ago, CIS had a scheduling conflict (I was out of the country and Dustin had work stuff to attend to), but we're looking forward to being there in the future to conduct some free classes.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[extremescene]

What I did expect was a general "Guns and Gear Expo" promo handout at the front door for the event itself with an included blurb about training sessions. That's all and that's what I was told would happen.

Did you write the "blurb" and provide it to the staff? Did you give them a time for the scheduled session? Perhaps you wanted them to write it and schedule your session?

I was originally interested in a session when you first posted here but your unwillingness to announce a time for any single session turned me off and I eventually forgot about it. You were just "testing the waters" and should have just scheduled a few sessions.

I also listened to your presentation at your booth for a few minutes and decided I was no longer interested. Perhaps this was the problem with other folks.

I agree with a statement made above that a vendor shouldn't take their beef out on the organizers on a public forum. Surely it won't be good for business.

[Guest Ben]

I am done with this here. I will bring it up in another thread. Maybe an official "Your view of the Expo" thread.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Ben

[extremescene]

I am done with this here. I will bring it up in another thread. Maybe an official "Your view of the Expo" thread.

From 5 paragraphs to 1 sentence. That was quite an edit... or 2!