Child Daycare Question

[kellyII]

I have searched the posts and I cant find the answer to my question. I was wanting to know if it is legal to carry into child daycare. I have to pick my daughter and son up from daycare and just to be on the safe side I leave my weapon in the truck. Can anyone tell me if its legal to carry into child daycare that is under the states supervision?

[Guest SUNTZU]

That I don't know. I think its pickup at the curb. You have your kids in Iraq?!

[Guest Muttling]

It's a school and the State doesn't differentiate between private/public. Leave it in the vehicle and don't touch it.

[JayC]

It's a school and the State doesn't differentiate between private/public. Leave it in the vehicle and don't touch it.

I'm not sure daycare is covered by the language for schools... Can you provide a cite for this?

[kellyII]

Well, sorry for not posting in a while and not changing my location. I have recently returned home from a year long deployment in Baghdad Iraq. Now its back to the civilian life like picking up the children and living everyday life. And this is a issue that was concerning me.

[Guest Muttling]

I'm not sure daycare is covered by the language for schools... Can you provide a cite for this?

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property. -

(a) As used in this section, “weapon of like kind†includes razors and razor blades, except those used solely for personal shaving, and any sharp pointed or edged instrument, except unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction and maintenance.

( (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.

(2) A violation of this subsection ( is a Class E felony.

© (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.....

I don't think one could successfully argue that a Day Care facility doesn't fall under the auspice of a "private educational institution."

[macville]

(2) A violation of this subsection ( is a Class E felony.

© (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.....

I don't think one could successfully argue that a Day Care facility doesn't fall under the auspice of a "private educational institution."

If they have a license as a education facility, but I don't think they do because then they would be a SCHOOL and not a DAY CARE. Last time I checked day care was for kids who were not old enough for school. If they were a school, wouldn't they have to have licensed teachers?

This is why we need to push for a law that either removes all the crap about privately own schools, or makes it legal to carry in these private schools if they are not posted like they are supposed to be (which is probably 90% of private schools.) That way, a private school could make it legal to carry there by simply not posting.

Matthew

[dralarms]

Well, sorry for not posting in a while and not changing my location. I have recently returned home from a year long deployment in Baghdad Iraq. Now its back to the civilian life like picking up the children and living everyday life. And this is a issue that was concerning me.

Can't answer your question but wanted to offer a heart felt thank you for your service. you are much appreciated.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Well, sorry for not posting in a while and not changing my location. I have recently returned home from a year long deployment in Baghdad Iraq. Now its back to the civilian life like picking up the children and living everyday life. And this is a issue that was concerning me.

Thank you for your service! I'm glad you're home safe!

[Fallguy]

FWIW IMO I don't think a daycare is a school.

In other states daycares are listed as off-limits seperate from schools.

[Guest Caveman]

(l) "Educational institution" means an educational institution situated within this state which, by virtue of law or charter, is a public or other nonprofit educational institution empowered to provide a program of education at the primary, secondary or high school level, beyond the high school level, and which is accredited by a nationally recognized educational accrediting agency or association and awards a bachelor's or advance degree or provides a program of not less than two (2) years' duration which is accepted for full credit toward a bachelor's degree;

Daycares are not schools and do not fall in the catagory of a school. The only thing you need to worry about is if the daycare is on school property. Carter school has a privately owned daycare on it's property. Otherwise, unless they are posted, it is not illegal. Churches, Martial arts studios and private homes can and are daycares, they are not schools or educational institutions. They do not provide a program of education. They do not employ teachers, they are not non-profit or accredited. They don't "teach" they babysit.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Caveman

[Fallguy]

I don't think one could successfully argue that a Day Care facility doesn't fall under the auspice of a "private educational institution."

With the info in the post above I think someone could give it a real good shot...

[Guest SUNTZU]

So easy a Caveman can do it. Somebody had to do it.

[Guest Muttling]

(l) "Educational institution" means an educational institution situated within this state which, by virtue of law or charter, is a public or other nonprofit educational institution empowered to provide a program of education at the primary, secondary or high school level, beyond the high school level, and which is accredited by a nationally recognized educational accrediting agency or association and awards a bachelor's or advance degree or provides a program of not less than two (2) years' duration which is accepted for full credit toward a bachelor's degree;

Daycares are not schools and do not fall in the catagory of a school. The only thing you need to worry about is if the daycare is on school property. Carter school has a privately owned daycare on it's property. Otherwise, unless they are posted, it is not illegal. Churches, Martial arts studios and private homes can and are daycares, they are not schools or educational institutions. They do not provide a program of education. They do not employ teachers, they are not non-profit or accredited. They don't "teach" they babysit.

While I disagree with the they don't teach and don't employ licensed teachers part as most do, your quote provides another detail that would seem to leave them out.

"education at the primary, secondary or high school level, beyond the high school level, "

Primary education courses are clearly defined by the Dept of Ed and start at the pre-K level. Thanks for the details, it's changed my thoughts on this.

[Oh Shoot]

Well, if some of you guys will open carry enough around daycares, we'll probably get an official ruling, eh?

- OS

[Guest Caveman]

So easy a Caveman can do it. Somebody had to do it.

Wow, I have never heard that one before, way to be original. Next thing you will yell out CAPTAIN CAVEMAN!!!! because I have never heard that one before either

[Guest SUNTZU]

Get back in your hole.

[Guest Caveman]

While I disagree with the they don't teach and don't employ licensed teachers part as most do, your quote provides another detail that would seem to leave them out.

"education at the primary, secondary or high school level, beyond the high school level, "

Primary education courses are clearly defined by the Dept of Ed and start at the pre-K level. Thanks for the details, it's changed my thoughts on this.

Well, my ex-wife worked at three daycares and her sister works at a daycare and none of them had accredited teachers. The daycare my daughter goes to have no accredited teachers. The daycare my step-daughter goes to have no accredited teachers. That is not to say that there are no daycares with them, but either way they still arent educational institutions. But I am glad I could help.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Caveman

[Guest Caveman]

Get back in your hole.

You mean my cave????

[Fallguy]

Wow, I have never heard that one before, way to be original. Next thing you will yell out CAPTAIN CAVEMAN!!!! because I have never heard that one before either

[Guest Caveman]

Thats awesome

[Guest cdsusong]

I work for the Head Start program here in East Tenn and we have posted the "No Firearms" signs on all of our centers. Not sure about daycare facilities but my suggestion would be leave it in the car. You may want to check with your daycare to make sure. You never know with divorce, sex offenders, disgruntled employees, or just all around bad guys. Get 'em in the parking lot before they go in!

[kellyII]

Well I guess I will start with asking the owner, which I know quite well if she has any accredited teachers. If she says no, I guess I will inform her that I carry a weapon and want to know if she has any problems with me having it on my person when I pick up my children. The worse thing that she could say is no, and then I guess i could tell her thats fine and by the way, today will by my childrens last day at her daycare.....

I wonder if that would change her mind with the issue...

[Fallguy]

Well I guess I will start with asking the owner, which I know quite well if she has any accredited teachers. If she says no, I guess I will inform her that I carry a weapon and want to know if she has any problems with me having it on my person when I pick up my children. The worse thing that she could say is no, and then I guess i could tell her thats fine and by the way, today will by my childrens last day at her daycare.....

I wonder if that would change her mind with the issue...

I doubt it would change her mind.

It is up to you if you want to ask her anything, but by all accounts it appears it is legal to carry there, so by asking her about it your more likely to stir up something that otherwise may not be.

If she tells you no and then for whatever reason you carry there again, you could be charged with trespassing, even if she never posted a sign. See AG opinion 07-148 (Question 6)

[rentalguy1]

I don't think a day care qualifies as a school, but I don't know for sure. I would leave mine in the vehicle even if I could carry there. I say that based on my experience of being mauled by a dozen 3 and 4 year olds when I would drop off, and pick up my son when he was in day care. That could quickly turn in to a accidental discharge, and it only takes them wanting to crawl all over you once. JMHO