Re: New gun Break-in and Info

[Guest K3PB]

Folks, i bought a new Taurus PT609, Ti, 9mm saturday at a gun show. i have owned many rifles, shotguns, but never a handgun. I would appreciate your feelings and information on breaking in a new gun. i know there are many of you that have had many handguns and can give good advise on a new gun. I got my carry permit about 6 months ago.

An ammo dealer at the show sold me Independence Brand (Blazer Brass) 9mm Luger, 115 grain rounds he said would be good break-in rounds. he also sold me a box of Federal 9mm 147 grain Hydra-Shok, JHP he said would be good protection rounds, BUT the Taurus manual says the max bullet should be a 124 grain.

I would appreciate any advise or thoughts from the more experienced folks on the forum.

here is a link to my photobucket page with some pics (i dont know how to post them here).

Taurus PT609 Ti 9mm pictures by k3pb_ham - Photobucket

Thanks all for your insights.

K3PB, In Tennessee

[StPatrick]

Remove any factory grease and gunk from the internals, lightly lube any contact points (everybody here has their own favorite gun lubricant - I prefer slideglide), and go blow holes in something.

Can't help with your hydra-shok question, but somebody here should be able to. My PD rounds have all been 124gr.

[Guest bkelm18]

Never really heard of breaking in handguns, but just clean it up and lube it and shoot away. Hydrashoks are good, albeit old "technology".

[redneck]

This is a repost can not remember who it was , don't give me credit for this .

1. open case/ packaging and admire

2. wipe the drool from face

3. do the happy dance

4. get comfortable in a well lit room and read the manual.

5. after your sure it is unloaded, pretend your a secrete agent.

6. wipe the drool away from face again.

7. complete breakdown and a good cleaning of fire arm

8. reassemble the fire arm, and admire again.

9. record s# take photo and make duplicates so you can admire after it is stolen or lost, or so the police can admire and tear up for you loss.

10. calm down, it might not ever happen, take deep breaths.

11. read the manual again.

12. put in a safe place or lock it up if you have kids running around, you don't want them to admire it when your not around.

13. find a calender and make a day available to get intently acquainted at a range so you know if your weapon can live up to its expectations.

14. get some ammo if you have not already

15. let us know what you think after you have fully tested it.

and last but not least post a pic we love our gun porn.

[Oh Shoot]

...BUT the Taurus manual says the max bullet should be a 124 grain....

Never have heard of a gun maker who limited the weight, but there must be a Taurus specific reason, so I reckon I'd drop down to a 124gr self defense load if it were me.

You oughtta shoot at least 100 rounds of whatever you decide on as your carry ammo anyway; gotta make SURE it feeds/ejects reliably.

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

The only time I've seen a restriction on bullet weight is in ultralight revolvers. The theory is that if you are shooting heavier bullets, the recoil might unseat the other bullets still in the gun.

[Guest Plainsman]

I think that the ballistics on the 124 grain are more preferable for a defensive round anyway. Try the new Winchester PDX Bonded or the new Hornady critical defense line. The technology in those rounds is pretty impressive.

[Guest razorblade]

If you are in the Knoxville area I will swap you a box of 124gr Hydrashoks it you would like. PM me and let me know.

[tntnixon]

Hydrashoks are good, albeit old "technology".

I have trouble with the "new technology" because there just isn't enough "real world" data on their effectiveness. The ammo manufacturers are really pushing the "new" ammo, not necessarily because it's better but because they want to make more $ and remain relevant. Most people don't target practice with defensive loads, therefore, a few boxes of ammo are all they need and until the ammo makers talk them into buying something new, that's all they will ever purchase.

As far as commercially available defensive carry loads in 9mm, the Cor Bon 124 JHP+p has had the best real world track record of a 96% one shot stop rate. That makes it roughly equal to the Federal Hydrashok in .45 but not as good as .357 mag JHP or .40 JHP which run at about 97 -98%, but those are statistically insignificant differences.

The Cor Bon "+p" is actually closer to a "+p+" that the LEO only rounds tout but there are no SAAMI guidelines that differentiate the two. Cor Bon pushes the envelope a bit (you will feel the differnce in recoil).

All this being said, the "new technology" loads will probably deliver equal performance, but it hasn't been proven. Also, you will never get to the 100% mark, it's theoretically impossible.

[krunchnik]

I recently picked up a Taurus PT24/7 PRO DS in .40S&W,It shoots really nice,trigger is not too bad for a double action pistol.like was previously posted make sure to break it down and clean the grease out of the insides including the firing pin channel,you can go to Taurus armed .net and there are instructions on how to dissasemble the firing pin assembly.If not make sure to run some non chlorinated degreaser in the cracks and crevises on the slide and then oil with a light type gun oil,not too much because it tends to gel in the pin channel.I had a PT140 Pro that I shot all style bullets and weights with no adverse effect on the pistol.Here is a pic of my Taurus,I think they are pretty decent firearms for the money,I have a PT1911AR that runs flawlessly.

Edited December 9, 2009 by krunchnik
spelling

[Guest CK1]

Hydrashoks are good, albeit old "technology".

"In pistol calibers, expanding hollowpoints are preferred to create the largest permanent wound cavity possible. There are a lot of people who pick a load without adequately researching the ammo they trust their life on. The Federal Hydra-Shock is one such example. It was the whiz-bang bullet of its time, but has since been eclipsed by many other bullet designs. The principal weakness of that round are its lack of expansion after passing through clothing."

Taken from here:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

[tntnixon]

"In pistol calibers, expanding hollowpoints are preferred to create the largest permanent wound cavity possible. There are a lot of people who pick a load without adequately researching the ammo they trust their life on. The Federal Hydra-Shock is one such example. It was the whiz-bang bullet of its time, but has since been eclipsed by many other bullet designs. The principal weakness of that round are its lack of expansion after passing through clothing."

Taken from here:

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Once again, this article only deals with lab tests into gel with no "real world" data, and it only uses Dr. Roberts' findings. There have been others who have done the same tests with different results and the halmark of science is reproducibility, in other words, the same tests should produce exactly the same results.

Having done a lot of medical research, over the years, I know that sometimes what we get in the lab is significantly different than what we get when we go to real people.

The data I use is based on the FBI's data on real defensive shooting incidents, and I tend to trust it much more readily than I do the "ballistics gel tests".

Until someone shows me a round with 100% OSS (will never happen), I'll stick with the old technology because it has far more "street cred", is cheaper, and 96% ain't bad.

[strickj]

Once again, this article only deals with lab tests into gel with no "real world" data, and it only uses Dr. Roberts' findings. There have been others who have done the same tests with different results and the halmark of science is reproducibility, in other words, the same tests should produce exactly the same results.

Having done a lot of medical research, over the years, I know that sometimes what we get in the lab is significantly different than what we get when we go to real people.

The data I use is based on the FBI's data on real defensive shooting incidents, and I tend to trust it much more readily than I do the "ballistics gel tests".

Until someone shows me a round with 100% OSS (will never happen), I'll stick with the old technology because it has far more "street cred", is cheaper, and 96% ain't bad.

Where is this data claiming "96% one shot stops"?

As far as new versus old...you do know that it's been something like 15 years since hydrashocks were superseded by modern HPs, don't you?

I mean, I understand the concern for wanting something that is proven to work, but I'm not going to wait 15 years to buy a new car to make sure the airbags work properly...

[tntnixon]

Where is this data claiming "96% one shot stops"?

As far as new versus old...you do know that it's been something like 15 years since hydrashocks were superseded by modern HPs, don't you?

I mean, I understand the concern for wanting something that is proven to work, but I'm not going to wait 15 years to buy a new car to make sure the airbags work properly...

Guns and Ammo did an entire issue on just this subject several years ago. I kept that issue for quite a while, but I think my wife finally threw it away (it was my favorite issue ever, I pretty much memorized it). It was probably somewhere in the 2000 range, year wise.

My question to you is: What do you mean by supereseded? Are you telling me that the "new" ammo is doing better, on the streets, than the older JHP's? Have they made it to the glorious 100% OSS? I think not. So if the OSS percentage hasn't gone up, what does the new stuff do that the old stuff didn't? The whole point of a defensive round is that it stops the perp. There is nothing more that it can or should do.

As far as 15 years of Hydrashoks being out of vogue, I would recheck that. The new ammos have only been out for about 4-5 years, if that long.

Edited December 9, 2009 by tntnixon

[kwe45919]

My question to you is: What do you mean by supereseded? Are you telling me that the "new" ammo is doing better, on the streets, than the older JHP's?

Have they made it to the glorious 100% OSS? I think not. So if the OSS percentage hasn't gone up, what does the new stuff do that the old stuff didn't? The whole point of a defensive round is that it stops the perp. There is nothing more that it can or should do.

As far as 15 years of Hydrashoks being out of vogue, I would recheck that. The new ammos have only been out for about 4-5 years, if that long.

First off, when new ammo has "come out"......it hasn't had time to be "real world" tested....duh, cause it hasn't had time on the streets for that type of eval. Every detail about the new ammo that comes out, comes from balistic tests done before the round hits the market by the manufacture,independant tester and possibly gonvernment bodies.

Second, don't you think with our glorious scientific community, many whom work to creat that magic OSS bullet for LE or military, that current production SD ammo hasn't advanced with the times?? Are you kidding me?? Think again......

While HydraShocks are usefull, as is any bullet, understand that technology has come around a long way over the years and HAS greatly improved our chances in a gun fight.

Now you say that the "new ammos" have only been out for 4 to 5 years?? Come one man....every year there's new manufactures comming out with the latest and greatest. There's always tons of reliable manufactures to choose from, all that can defend/save your life (more than likley) better than Hydrashocks.

[tntnixon]

First off, when new ammo has "come out"......it hasn't had time to be "real world" tested....duh, cause it hasn't had time on the streets for that type of eval. Every detail about the new ammo that comes out, comes from balistic tests done before the round hits the market by the manufacture,independant tester and possibly gonvernment bodies.

Second, don't you think with our glorious scientific community, many whom work to creat that magic OSS bullet for LE or military, that current production SD ammo hasn't advanced with the times?? Are you kidding me?? Think again......

While HydraShocks are usefull, as is any bullet, understand that technology has come around a long way over the years and HAS greatly improved our chances in a gun fight.

Now you say that the "new ammos" have only been out for 4 to 5 years?? Come one man....every year there's new manufactures comming out with the latest and greatest. There's always tons of reliable manufactures to choose from, all that can defend/save your life (more than likley) better than Hydrashocks.

This discussion is two-fold.

First is the OSS vs One Shot Kill. Generally speaking, most defensive shooting specialists would argue that the point of defensive shooting is to stop a perp from doing whatever they were doing that made you want to shoot them, this is the OSS. There are some who would argue that the objective is to kill, but not many. We'll call this the One Shot Kill (OSK). The newer rounds are probably better at doing the second but not necessarily better at doing the first because it would be very difficult to top the already stellar percentages of the OSS in the older rounds.

Secondly is the scientific arguement or lab vs real world. Do you think Jimmy Johnson would run a new car in the Daytona 500 without driving it, just because it did well in the wind tunnel? Probably not, he wants to actually drive the darned thing first on a real track. I would say the same about the new cartidges. I agree they are probably just as good if not better, but I don't want to put my life on the line for "probably". This is the same situation I faced when a drug rep tried to sell me on a new cholesterol medication for my patients. He argued that his drug, while more expensive, was more effective in lowering cholesterol and had the data to prove it. But, when looking at actual patients, one found that although the cholesterol numbers were better, the patients didn't live longer or have fewer heart attacks than the older drug. So whay would you spend more money when the outcome is exactly the same?

[Guest CK1]

Back on the OP's topic...

For break-in on a new handgun, I always field strip it, clean and lube it, then run around 200 or so through it before detail stripping* it and then cleaning and lubing it again.

For me, unless it's a Glock or M&P, I want at least 500 rounds of different brands of ammo, both FMJ and JHP, to run through it without issue until I'd bet my life on it and carry it (For a Glock or M&P 100rds will usually tell me what I need to know), including at least 3-4 mags of the more expensive SD stuff I'll actually be carrying (for me that almost always means Gold Dots).

The cheaper WWB 147gr JHP you can sometimes find at Wallyworld is an economical way to make sure it handles JHP well since it's usually less than $20 for a box of 50rds (in 9mm at least) so running a 150 or more through it won't make you broke but you'll get a good idea on how well the gun feeds hollow points.

There seems to be some noise out there that 147gr 9mm is a poor feeding round (maybe why your Taurus has a warning), but IMO I want my guns to feed everything including crummy steel case Wolf regardless of weight, grain, shape, or whatever, if it's picky I get rid of it.

* As an aside, I really feel strongly about learning how to detail strip a weapon that may be your primary carry piece, and if that's a "can't happen" choosing one you can learn to.

I do it at the beginning after a couple hundred rounds because it gives me a look at what's going on inside it and a chance to look for areas that are wearing, also to clean out the over-the-top lube job that they sometimes come from the factory with that'll only attract grime... I get to see if there are any spots I need to keep an eye on and ensure it's lubed where it needs it, and usually more importantly, NOT where it doesn't need it where lube might only give grime a place to latch on and mess something up.

For this reason, guns like Glocks are favorites 'cause they have such few parts to deal with, but even more complicated ones can at least be taken down to a few different sections to give one a better look at what's up with the internals. IMO, those who don't know how to detail strip their guns, or are afraid or intimidated by it are bound to have a problem at some point, just a matter of time... it's better for one's self to know it's in perfect order, plus it's kinda fun in a crafty nerdy sort of way...

Edited December 11, 2009 by CK1
* aside

[StPatrick]

* As an aside, I really feel strongly about learning how to detail strip a weapon...

I can shoot them, and I can clean them, but I do not have any idea how to detail strip my guns. (Cut me some slack, I've only been at this like 8 months or so.) Your reasoning on why this should be done is sound, and I want to learn.

So: What resources would you recommend for learning the process, and where would you recommend picking up any tools or supplies needed to do so?

[TripleDigitRide]

7. complete breakdown and a good cleaning of fire arm

8. reassemble the fire arm, and admire again.

Fire Arm

Firearm

Sorry, but I couldn't help myself. Carry on.

[Guest CK1]

I can shoot them, and I can clean them, but I do not have any idea how to detail strip my guns. (Cut me some slack, I've only been at this like 8 months or so.) Your reasoning on why this should be done is sound, and I want to learn.

So: What resources would you recommend for learning the process, and where would you recommend picking up any tools or supplies needed to do so?

Google and YouTube have been the only teachers I've ever had... That, and of course the parts diagram.

Anything that's not already posted can be found usually at a guns "manufacturer forum" ie: glocktalk for glocks, sigforum for sigs.... Ask away, someone will help.

For tools, in most cases you may maybe need a 3-piece pin punch set you can get at any hardware store and possibly a hammer, that'll usually do it. They're all different (for instance a Glock equals one punch and NO hammer, an M&P needs two punches and a hammer for a couple roll pins...), ALWAYS use the correct sized punch when knocking out roll pins and you'll do no harm.

It is easiest to learn something easy like a Glock so you'll gain some confidence, Sigs and CZ's with decockers are the hardest and examples of when sometimes just blowing them out with non-chlorinated brake cleaner then re-lubeing them is the best bet... YMMV.

Edited December 14, 2009 by CK1

[eapking]

I agree with CK1 on the preshooting field strip & clean. Lube rails, etc. This is really standard practice on new 1911's. It's not a bad idea on any gun. Gets rid of the packing lube they dunk them in & gums them up.

A friend of mine got a Taurus .40 a while back, and had a pretty lousy first time out. That thing failed to go to battery about 5 times in the first 100 rds.

As far as Hydra-shoks, if they're out of vouge, it's only been in the last couple years. I still have some boxes, that I'm counting on doing the job.