What if 20 million illegal aliens went back home to Mexico

[Guest TN.Frank]

So did anyone watch 30 Days "Imigration" last night? If I lived under the conditions that some of those people lived under and there were jobs 100 miles North you're damn right I'd be hopping the border to feed my family and make a better life for myself.

For thousands of years humans were nomadic and would travel to where the game and weather was more suited to survival, just because we've evolved governments and countries do you really think it'll stop our natural instinct to go to where life is better?

[Guest Ghostrider]

Oh, yeah. That'll work.

Who is going to employ anyone with those sanctions hanging over their head?

Who is going to rent to anyone with those sanctions hanging over their head?

How are we going to "close the border" with billions of dollars of goods flowing in and out every single day?

That is a recipe for disaster. It would be worse than the problem, whatever the problem is.

Apparently you didn't hear me when I PMd you, and tried to be polite about it, so let me make this clear.

I do not want to hear your socialist, liberal bs.

I'm sick to death of your personal attacks.

NEVER speak to me, about me, or quote me again.

Clear enough?

I don't reply to anything you post, at least be courteous enough to return the favor.

Mods, whatever you want to do with this is up to you. If it means I need to go, so be it. I'm just not going to sit still and take this any longer.

[The Rabbi]

Apparently you didn't hear me when I PMd you, and tried to be polite about it, so let me make this clear.

I do not want to hear your socialist, liberal bs.

I'm sick to death of your personal attacks.

NEVER speak to me, about me, or quote me again.

Clear enough?

I don't reply to anything you post, at least be courteous enough to return the favor.

Mods, whatever you want to do with this is up to you. If it means I need to go, so be it. I'm just not going to sit still and take this any longer.

I never got a PM from you.

I have never engaged in personal attacks. If you think my analyzing your solutions and pointing out their obvious flaws amounts to a personal attack maybe you need to quit posting where debate occurs.

I am not a liberal or a socialist.

I will post whatever I want and quote whomever I want within the guidelines of this board. If you have an issue with that maybe you need to start your own board.

[Guest Ghostrider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostrider

You don't know crap about huffy.

Talk all the crap you want out here, spin you're liberal leftist view as you like, but I'd strongly advise you to follow my lead and leave me out of your public floggings.

I'm done with you, leave it at that.

I am sorry you feel that my questioning your positions constitutes "liberal leftist spin." I assure you freedom is not a liberal leftist position. Increasing state control and state policing is a liberal statist position. It is one you sadly seem to have bought into.

I suppose I just dreamed this PM up out of my own ass?

1. It's an attack. You know it. I know it. and it's not the first time.

2. Your "analysis" as you call it is nothing more than a thinly veiled attack. Don't spin it.

3. As I said to start with, you can roll spin your bs all you want, BUT LEAVE ME OUT OF IT.

4. Not a liberal or a socialist? Perhaps YOU think not, perhaps you should do a poll and see what your peers think? I'm a nationalist, and damn proud of it.

5. Maybe I do need to start my own board. or maybe, just perhaps, you'll have plenty of time to contemplate more social messages after your business fails?

Exit question: What would people drive from Nashville to Winchester to buy things they could get from you.

Again, all I want from you is to keep your nose out of my business and leave me alone.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

There's an ignore list feature, if anyone cares to utilize it, to avoid any further hostilities...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/profile.php?do=editlist

Can also be found under the User Control Panel > Edit Options > Buddy / Ignore Lists (on the bottom left column).

[The Rabbi]

Actually your views suggest more than nationalism. National socialism perhaps.

If you dont like what I write use the ignore feature. I wont mind a bit.

[Guest Ghostrider]

Naw, thanks, duh, I don't know crap about computers... duh....

Truly, it's helpful to know what the libtards are thinking. Always good for a laugh, or a good puke, whichever mood happens to strike first.

[Guest Ghostrider]

Oh, and thanks for calling me a Nazi - really appreciate that coming from you...

[fury2neon]

Open borders are good to a point but the border has to be controlled so that people with diseases or criminal records can't cross. A free society can have any number of immigrants entering and it will help the economy. We do not live in a free society we live in a socialist one where the government pays people not to work and gives them health care. We live in a society where the government gets our paychecks first and then we get whats left. The only reason for having open borders in a socialist society is to change the demographics of the society to push through more totalitarian laws and subjugate the majority population more.

A free society has to have laws and taxes. For a free society laws should be simple and clear and the government should not take up more than 10% of the GDP. The 10% figure comes from Dr. Walter Williams. Referring to taxes he said "10 percent is good enough for God it should be good enough for the government."

[Mike.357]

I am going to stick my two cents in here. For what its worth...

Rabbi can post on any subject he chooses, not that I am giving permission, not my

place, nor is permission needed. This is a public forum and Ghostrider you can't come on here and make up your BS rules as to who is allowed or not allowed to quote you or comment on your posts.

I may be wrong but I believe you are the only member here who is a name caller. You could use to learn a lesson in civility and human compassion as well.

frankly several things you espouse turn my stomach.

and then I claim I don't have the money to pay a fine and I basically am just let go. It happens every day in traffic court.

cite your source for this, frankly I do not believe it.

Would I extend to them the right to life. Yes, first time, if they haven't committed any crimes other than illegal entry. The second time they enter illegally, not so much.

So I read this as to say you want illegal immigrants to receive a death penalty?

Could the handicapped become citizen? Not sure, need to think about it. Probably not.

This is especially unsavory, real compassionate you are.

making these criminals leave and go through the proper channels like the rest of us mere mortals is the only just,

What proper channels did you go through? Were you born here? If so then you are only a member of the lucky sperm club then.

So long as it's my vision

It all about you

Otherwise it's hard labor for NO pay

Kind of like slavery huh?

I do not want to hear your socialist, liberal bs.

I'm sick to death of your personal attacks.

NEVER speak to me, about me, or quote me again.

keep your nose out of my business and leave me alone.

Someone have their panties in a wad? I am kind of sick over the poison you write but I would not tell you you are not allowed to write it, or comment on someone elses views.

if you do not want comments on your views then keep them to yourself or at least do not post them on a public message board.

[Guest canynracer]

bottom line, this is a public forum and it is a forum that welcomes views and opinions.

I did not read Rabbis response as an attack, but it soulds like you two have a history that probably should end with a mutual "ignore"

I for one find Rabbis post sometimes harsh, but none the less real and to the point. Sometimes people will post the truth that others dont want to hear. Ghost, if you go back and read the posts between you and I, you will also see the same thing, we posted stuff that others did not want to hear.

I dont think public bashing for the sake of bashing is appropriate in any way shape or form, so I would perscribe a couple of pills and get over it.

Ghost, you served our country to protect peoples freedoms, freedom of speech is one of those freedoms. it is not selective freedom depending on if you like or approve what they say.

stand behind what you chose to risk your life to protect.

I mean "cant we all just get along?":love:

[Guest Ghostrider]

I may be wrong but I believe you are the only member here who is a name caller. You could use to learn a lesson in civility and human compassion as well.

So I called myself a nazi - sorry, must be confused...

As for a lesson in civility and human compassion - I am a civil person. But I speak up when the BS gets too deep. Compassion is the department of the church, just like loans are the department of the bank. Neither of which I am good at nor wish to learn.

frankly several things you espouse turn my stomach.

right back at ya. But I don't call you names, do I? Maybe I got confused about that, too?

cite your source for this, frankly I do not believe it.

Here's one, you can find a few thousand more on your own.

Next, the non-English speaking individuals who do not have driver’s licenses or insurance. Never was it asked why they did not have licenses, or what they were doing to get licenses or insurance. What they were given for driving without a license was a $35 fine. Since many of them did not have $35, they were also given payment terms.

source: http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=4643Believe me now? If I get a fine I don't have to pay it? Or I can get "terms" and just leave? right. Perhaps I should try that next time I get a ticket.

So I read this as to say you want illegal immigrants to receive a death penalty?

Illegals have no rights, sending them home the first time is a humanitarian act. Should we keep repeating this costly humanitarian act forever with no other recourse?

This is especially unsavory, real compassionate you are.

Just a little out of context. Canynrunner and I were discussing how to change from a "birthright" citizenship to an earned one. But don't let that stop you, rock on!

What proper channels did you go through? Were you born here? If so then you are only a member of the lucky sperm club then.

No, very much NOT the lucky sperm club. That's actually pretty funny if you knew anything about me at all. No, I earned my citizenship via service to my country. What did you do?

It all about you

Sure is, and don't let those little winking smilies at the end of the line you omitted convince you I was being a smart ass with someone else. I believe he got the joke.

Kind of like slavery huh?

More like imprisonment at hard labor? Or is that too ugly?

Someone have their panties in a wad? I am kind of sick over the poison you write but I would not tell you you are not allowed to write it, or comment on someone elses views.

if you do not want comments on your views then keep them to yourself or at least do not post them on a public message board.

Yes, actually, I did have a minor wad there. All I want is for one person to leave me alone. Is that a LOT to ask?

[Guest Ghostrider]

bottom line, this is a public forum and it is a forum that welcomes views and opinions.

Ghost, you served our country to protect peoples freedoms, freedom of speech is one of those freedoms. it is not selective freedom depending on if you like or approve what they say.

stand behind what you chose to risk your life to protect.

I mean "cant we all just get along?":love:

You may be right on many points, but there comes a point when you get really tired of certain things and have to speak out.

No, we can't all "get along", too many looking to take what others have earned. Which is why the whole illegal thing just annoys the tar out of me.

I've done quite a bit of research on the hidden costs of illegal immigration, and it's staggering. I've looked at the number of citizens killed and maimed by illegals and just sit there and think that it didn't have to happen at all. The good Lord knows we have enough criminals in this country, why import more?

At any rate, I'll try to give you guys a rest from my mouth since it seems my posts are annoying you.

Enjoy

[The Rabbi]

At any rate, I'll try to give you guys a rest from my mouth since it seems my posts are annoying you.

Actually your attitude and inability to read are annoying us. I'll add a staggering ignorance of law and facts. No one called you a nazi. I pointed out your views are not too dissimilar to those of the nazis. Not the same thing. I pointed out your proposals are unworkable and would result in the economic ruin and you rant and rave instead of answering the question.

[molonlabetn]

Wow... look at what I missed!

jeez.

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and demand that everyone stick to the topic and play nice... but I will close this thread if everyone continues to focus on each other instead of the ideas which have been presented.

It's a controversial topic, strong feelings are to be expected.

[molonlabetn]

In my opinion, closing the border is the first matter of business. That is the only way to ensure that the illegals which are deported today aren't replaced by 2 more tomorrow.

As to getting some clue about how leniently illegals are treated in the court system, just pick up any newspaper with a court proceedings listing and see how many of the defendants with hispanic names and drivers license & DUI violations are simply dismissed... it's right there in black and white, in stark comparison to the other violators. it is indeed a double-standard. (and yes, I know that a hispanic name and no DL do not an illegal immigrant make, but you're blind if you can't recognize that is a very very strong indicator.)

[The Rabbi]

How do you propose to "close the borders" when there are hundreds of millions of dollars of trade that pass that way every single day? Further there are thousands of legitimate businesspeople and tourists going back and forth every single day. Further, many illegals come from someplace other than Mexico, 47% of all illegals in fact. They come here and overstay visas. What will closing the border do to prevent that?

The cure is worse than the disease.

[molonlabetn]

How do you propose to "close the borders" when there are hundreds of millions of dollars of trade that pass that way every single day? Further there are thousands of legitimate businesspeople and tourists going back and forth every single day. Further, many illegals come from someplace other than Mexico, 47% of all illegals in fact. They come here and overstay visas. What will closing the border do to prevent that?

The cure is worse than the disease.

First of all, just because they don't originate from Mexico, doesn't mean that they don't come thru Mexico... I think we can agree that far more than 57% of illegals do.

As to how to close the border... the only workable solution at the moment would be to complete the fence/wall, and also to beef up border security-forces patrolling it.

Overstayed visas are a slightly different problem, and on a significantly smaller scale. At least in those cases there is some record of the country of origin, which the offender can be deported to.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that the cure is worse than the disease... there is no benefit to having undocumented, unauthorized foreign nationals coming in and staying as long as they please. If the system for acquiring a work-visa is insufficient, then it should be fixed to provide the number of needed workers based on the market (which is already how they gauge how many to issue), but it's irrational to simply throw up our hands and give up any enforcement measures just because the invasion is out of control. And there should be no lenience given to those criminals who have taken advantage of weaknesses in border security.

Should people not be penalized for stealing from a bank, simply because the vault is open and the cameras are off?

[The Rabbi]

You've proposed your own solution better than the one you think you have.

Putting up a wall 2k miles wide over desolate areas far from population centers is expensive with uncertain results. In addition to the initial billions of dollars necessary to build it you would need billions more to maintain and watch it.

N.Korea shares a border with China which is much shorter. The Chinese are not especially particular about shooting people trying to cross. And yet the Chinese cannot control that border and have a huge problem with N.Koreans trying to sneak in. Why will a US fence be any more succesful?

And even cutting off the land link will not stop illegals. There are unlimited points of entry to this country. Ask any drug smuggler.

But you point out the solution: make it easier for people to come here to work legally. That is really the crux. There is a need, a tremendous need, for low-skilled labor in farming and service fields. Already farmers leave a fair amount of crops unharvested because they do not have labor to harvest it. The jobs are tough and relatively low-paying.

Mexicans, and others, need jobs, prospects being even worse in their own countries. So they come here to take those jobs. Thus the problem.

You could shut down those jobs but then the overall economy will tank. Companies will outsource all of it. Look at how much produce is already grown in SoAmerica.

The solution is an easy to get visa with biometric ID. The current visa system is woefully inadequate. Even in the skilled worker market (computer scientists for example) the visas all get claimed within 2-3 weeks of availability. That is a system out of whack. It is even more so with the unskilled market.

Change the visa system and you will eliminate the need for an expensive and unreliable fence and enforcement.

[Guest canynracer]

wow...this just got REALLY good!!!

[The Rabbi]

Canynracer, my sole purpose for being here is to entertain you.

[Guest canynracer]

Canynracer, my sole purpose for being here is to entertain you.

And for that....I thank you good sir

[Guest Ghostrider]

Actually your attitude and inability to read are annoying us. I'll add a staggering ignorance of law and facts.

Pot -- kettle

And judging from the email I get, that knife cuts both ways.

I'd say it's time to close this one.

[Guest Grizzly Johnson]

Close it??? It's just getting to the good part........

[Mike.357]

just pick up any newspaper with a court proceedings listing and see how many of the defendants with hispanic names and drivers license & DUI violations are simply dismissed..

Eddie, why are they dismissed, are any reasons listed? Please no speculation here. Shouldn't the public be raising hell about it?

I have my doubts about a fence working very effectively without ample armed patrols that actually have authority to do something.

Maybe Mars can lend the border patrol some of his mines!