What if 20 million illegal aliens went back home to Mexico

[The Rabbi]

Maybe we should think about deporting 20 Million American Freeloaders down to Mexico and keep the 20 Million "illegals" that hold down a job and help this country do it's daily business.

If we did that the crime rate overall would decline, there would be less use of government programs for a variety of reasons, and we would see an unprecedented prosperity.

But no one wants to talk about that.

[molonlabetn]

1. so, if they get caught they pay the consequesnce just like you do. Also, according to the original post, they do NOT get sent back, remember, they are in prision, that is why we are overpopulated, in debt and no "legal" person can get a job, it costs us millions, billions, trillons, kabillions of dollars to keep the illegals in prision...

not ALL steal SSNs...and a little secret for you, AMERICANS ON WELFARE DO THAT TOO!!! i am not sure where you are gettng these "Facts" but whatever, its like the quote on your signature...NOT TRUE: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/recoil.asp

There is no magical degree...it exists NOW, look around, will a legal citizen spend his whole life in prision for robbery? NO...Murder? Hmm, sometimes, it all depends

so, we become a country alone in the world with no allies...ummm, that is called vunerable, it would not cool off attacks it opens the doors.

yeah, that sucks...but why is that the illegals fault?

once again,

I do not know all of the answers, I am in IT, not politics, I vote for the politician that stand up for what I believe is good.

sitting here and complaining about how the american life is dammed because of illegal aliens is NOT the thing I believe is good. Do I think its a problem? Hell YES, but just kicking them out and becoming this militarized zone is not the answer (once again, my belief)

my question is this, what make YOU an American citizen? paperwork?

The problem is not the illegal's fault, of course... they are simply taking advantage of the US Gov't's weakness towards border security. Eliminating the border security problem would eliminate the majority of the illegal immigration problem.

I am an American citizen for the same reasons that illegals are citizens of their respective countries of origin... And those other countries do not owe me anything, any more than the US owes foreign nationals any aid.

The US does not have to become a militarized zone in order to promote legal immigration and prevent illegal immigration. Remove the reasons for illegal immigration (under the table jobs, and taxpayer funded health/welfare programs). There are plenty of domestic issues which deserve attention before the needs of the citizens of any other country.

[Guest canynracer]

If we did that the crime rate overall would decline, there would be less use of government programs for a variety of reasons, and we would see an unprecedented prosperity.

But no one wants to talk about that.

you know you said that outloud right???

heheh

[molonlabetn]

If we did that the crime rate overall would decline, there would be less use of government programs for a variety of reasons, and we would see an unprecedented prosperity.

But no one wants to talk about that.

Although it is impossible to deport someone who belongs here... I am all-for strict punishment of all criminals, including those who abuse the programs meant for those who are truly in need. In some ways those are separate issues... but harsh and capital punishment would indeed remove said undesirables from society, whether from the country (if illegal immigrants), or from the general public.

[Guest Ghostrider]

1. so, if they get caught they pay the consequesnce just like you do. Also, according to the original post, they do NOT get sent back, remember, they are in prision, that is why we are overpopulated, in debt and no "legal" person can get a job, it costs us millions, billions, trillons, kabillions of dollars to keep the illegals in prision...

No illegal I've ever heard of has been jailed for being here illegally (other than held in custody while in route home). That's the crimes I'm talking about. An illegal in this country that commits ANY other crime should probably be executed forthwith (my opinion). For details on my thoughts on illegals http://www.houseofdracos.com/prez

not ALL steal SSNs...and a little secret for you, AMERICANS ON WELFARE DO THAT TOO!!! i am not sure where you are gettng these "Facts" but whatever, its like the quote on your signature...NOT TRUE: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/recoil.asp

They do if they work (if the employer checks, which should be a buisness closing crime at the very least if the employer doesn't). You want some facts? Google this "hidden costs of illegal immigration".

And I know all about my sig line. I think it's funny and it describes the way I feel.

There is no magical degree...it exists NOW, look around, will a legal citizen spend his whole life in prision for robbery? NO...Murder? Hmm, sometimes, it all depends

Non citizens have NO rights. I simply don't believe that any illegal will spend his life in prison for robbery. What about the child rapist who murdered the police officer cause he didn't want to be deported again for child rape? I know there are criminal US citizens, but they are citizens. BIG difference.

so, we become a country alone in the world with no allies...ummm, that is called vunerable, it would not cool off attacks it opens the doors.

At first, perhaps. After we cut off the money tap and rebuild our economy, the rest of the planet can starve. We just have to be tough enough to let them.

I do not know all of the answers, I am in IT, not politics, I vote for the politician that stand up for what I believe is good.

We agree on that.

sitting here and complaining about how the american life is dammed because of illegal aliens is NOT the thing I believe is good. Do I think its a problem? Hell YES, but just kicking them out and becoming this militarized zone is not the answer (once again, my belief)

It's only one of many national problems that we need to fix. But it's one we CAN fix, and quickly if we make up our minds to do it. Why not fix the problems that we can?

my question is this, what make YOU an American citizen? paperwork?

Oh, maybe I feel that I EARNED my citizenship by serving honorably for 20+ years in some crap holes and situations that most have never heard of.

Same question to you.

Here, let me change my sig for you so we don't have any humor in any exchange.

[molonlabetn]

But we did take the Native Americans land and game which cut into thier life style to which they were use to. Same as you're saying the "Mexicans" are taking all the free government handouts and jobs that should go to Americans.

Except for the fact that we took from the Native Americans (I say we, but none of my ancestors were here at the time)... however 'we' are giving our country away to the illegals, they are only here because of those handouts. A better comparison would be to leaving the lid of a trash-can open attracting flies.

When I lived in Phoenix I was right in the middle of where many "illegals" lived and for the most part the ones that were here illegally weren't the ones causing all the crime or getting the handouts. They were decent, hard working people that minded their own business. It was the American born "Mexicans" that caused all the problems, got the government handouts, dealt the drugs and did the drive-bys. Americans that were already here were the problem, not the illegals. Now I'm not saying that ALL illegals are Saints or that ALL American born Latinos are criminals, it's just the way it looked, it was like the illegals were just pretty much here to work and take care of their families, not cause trouble.

Maybe we should think about deporting 20 Million American Freeloaders down to Mexico and keep the 20 Million "illegals" that hold down a job and help this country do it's daily business.

I lived in Phoenix too (Mesa actually)... for 5 years. Ever looked up the demographics of the prison population there (or anywhere, nowadays)? Most illegals don't cause crime, my ass... They are criminals, by definition, and it's not surprising that a high percentage of them (compared to nearly any other group) end up in the pokey for far worse deeds.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml

[Guest Ghostrider]

Wow... just, wow...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Guest canynracer]

No illegal I've ever heard of has been jailed for being here illegally (other than held in custody while in route home). That's the crimes I'm talking about. An illegal in this country that commits ANY other crime should probably be executed forthwith (my opinion). For details on my thoughts on illegals http://www.houseofdracos.com/prez

They do if they work (if the employer checks, which should be a buisness closing crime at the very least if the employer doesn't). You want some facts? Google this "hidden costs of illegal immigration".

And I know all about my sig line. I think it's funny and it describes the way I feel.

Non citizens have NO rights. I simply don't believe that any illegal will spend his life in prison for robbery. What about the child rapist who murdered the police officer cause he didn't want to be deported again for child rape? I know there are criminal US citizens, but they are citizens. BIG difference.

At first, perhaps. After we cut off the money tap and rebuild our economy, the rest of the planet can starve. We just have to be tough enough to let them.

We agree on that.

It's only one of many national problems that we need to fix. But it's one we CAN fix, and quickly if we make up our minds to do it. Why not fix the problems that we can?

Oh, maybe I feel that I EARNED my citizenship by serving honorably for 20+ years in some crap holes and situations that most have never heard of.

Same question to you.

Here, let me change my sig for you so we don't have any humor in any exchange.

we do agree on a lot of points...and the new sig line is funny as hell,

but I gotta call this one out

"Non citizens have NO rights. I simply don't believe that any illegal will spend his life in prison for robbery. What about the child rapist who murdered the police officer cause he didn't want to be deported again for child rape? I know there are criminal US citizens, but they are citizens. BIG difference. "

IMHO - NO Difference...like the citizens that kill cops because they didnt want to go to jail for robbing a donut shop...or the citizen child predator, they should ALL die the same painful horrible death. my point to this one was about the original post about how much we spend to keep illegals in prison.

other than that, I see your points, and like I said, I do agree it IS a problem....I am only stating that we need to take time and think out how to address it...

and why am I a citizen...hmmm, I dunno, based on why you are a citizen, only people that serve earned it. (dont take that out of context, I ABSOLUTLEY support our troops, and I am very VERY appreciative of them protecting my children and our freedoms!)

Why am I a citizen? have no clue, my family tree comes from Italy, they came accross on a boat some generations ago, I was blessed enough to be born here.

[Guest Ghostrider]

"Non citizens have NO rights. I simply don't believe that any illegal will spend his life in prison for robbery. What about the child rapist who murdered the police officer cause he didn't want to be deported again for child rape? I know there are criminal US citizens, but they are citizens. BIG difference. "

IMHO - NO Difference...like the citizens that kill cops because they didnt want to go to jail for robbing a donut shop...or the citizen child predator, they should ALL die the same painful horrible death. my point to this one was about the original post about how much we spend to keep illegals in prison.

Let me clarify. I don't think citizens should be spared the death penalty for horrible crimes as we have both described. However, just deporting an illegal alien criminal isn't enough WITHOUT closing the border. As it is now, that's just an "inconvenience" until they can sneak back in, it's not a punishment for the crime.

I strongly believe that an illegal alien has NO rights under our constitution.

and why am I a citizen...hmmm, I dunno, based on why you are a citizen, only people that serve earned it.

Exactly. And perhaps (I'd have to research it a bit) if a person wanted to "fast track" to citizenship, we could do that based on a background check and an honorable discharge from our armed services.

I was blessed enough to be born here.

So was I. But in this world of anchor babies and governmental lethargy, maybe that's not enough any more. Perhaps we need to relook at what DOES constitute a citizen? I don't know. I don't claim to know all the answers. But I can pretty much tell right from wrong, and having xx MILLION illegals in our country without any control is just wrong.

[Guest TN.Frank]

I thought the Constitution was simply protecting God Given Rights that ALL Human Beings have been given reguardless of Race, Creed or Color or National Origin. The Constitution doesn't give U.S. Citizens Rights and deny people from other countries the same Rights. It only stops our government from taking Rights that we ALL are born with from us.

[molonlabetn]

I thought the Constitution was simply protecting God Given Rights that ALL Human Beings have been given reguardless of Race, Creed or Color or National Origin. The Constitution doesn't give U.S. Citizens Rights and deny people from other countries the same Rights. It only stops our government from taking Rights that we ALL are born with from us.

Well, that makes sense until you read the document... the very first sentence identifies who this covenant of laws is made by, and to:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, so ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

[Guest TN.Frank]

And what about this part:

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL MEN are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Of course you have to include women in there too or we'll not eat dinner tonight, LOL.

[molonlabetn]

And what about this part:

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL MEN are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Of course you have to include women in there too or we'll not eat dinner tonight, LOL.

Human rights, I agree with you, are universal (that's from the Declaration of Independance, which was before there existed such a thing as a citizen of the USA)... but Constitutional Rights are specifically enumerated with the "People of the United States of America" in mind.

I have no more right to imprison, kill, or cause grief to any person from any country than they do me. But that does not mean they are above the laws of the land which they enter.

Do you think that any person from any country should be able to vote in US elections?

[Guest TN.Frank]

Ok, I see where you're coming from. True, you should only be able to vote if you're a U.S. Citizen and NO, I don't think they are above the law but that being said I don't think that they should be treated as inferior to us where Rights are conserned in a legal aspect simply because we're U.S. Citizens and they're not. I agree, if you break the law then you should pay for it but I also think it's a matter of how bad the law is that you break. It's true that sneeking across the border is breaking the law but if you're doing it to feed your family then I don't feel it's as bad as say if you were sneeking across the border to bring cocain into the country. Still, I do get what you're trying to say.

[Guest Ghostrider]

Ok, I see where you're coming from. True, you should only be able to vote if you're a U.S. Citizen and NO, I don't think they are above the law but that being said I don't think that they should be treated as inferior to us where Rights are conserned in a legal aspect simply because we're U.S. Citizens and they're not. I agree, if you break the law then you should pay for it but I also think it's a matter of how bad the law is that you break. It's true that sneeking across the border is breaking the law but if you're doing it to feed your family then I don't feel it's as bad as say if you were sneeking across the border to bring cocain into the country. Still, I do get what you're trying to say.

If you check out the system, illegals ARE above the law of the US in many respects. If I get a ticket, I go to court, I often get the max fine plus court costs. If I'm an illegal and I go to court for that same ticket. I get an interpreter (at taxpayer cost) I get whatever the court gives me after I play the poor immigrant routine, and then I claim I don't have the money to pay a fine and I basically am just let go. It happens every day in traffic court.

Since the constitution only is talking about US Citizens - (we, the people) - then ANY rights we extend to illegal aliens are just due to our good nature, they are NOT guaranteed by the US Constitution, that document only applies to US Citizens. I simply believe that we've been MUCH too kind and that illegal aliens have taken far and away too much advantage of our kindness - mistaking it for weakness. And I believe it's time to not be kind any longer.

Illegals have no rights under the US Constitution.

Would I extend to them the right to life. Yes, first time, if they haven't committed any crimes other than illegal entry. The second time they enter illegally, not so much.

[Guest canynracer]

Let me clarify. I don't think citizens should be spared the death penalty for horrible crimes as we have both described. However, just deporting an illegal alien criminal isn't enough WITHOUT closing the border. As it is now, that's just an "inconvenience" until they can sneak back in, it's not a punishment for the crime.

I agree

I strongly believe that an illegal alien has NO rights under our constitution.

interesting...so because they are here, they are no longer human, and I could save HUNDREDS on paper targets...lol...ok I blew that point out of porportion, I know what you meant

Exactly. And perhaps (I'd have to research it a bit) if a person wanted to "fast track" to citizenship, we could do that based on a background check and an honorable discharge from our armed services.

ok so, because I choose to not join the military does not make me any less than a citizen or a patriot? There are other ways to support your country. this one seems narrow minded.

Perhaps we need to relook at what DOES constitute a citizen?

Agreed...see now we "think before we react"

[saintsfanbrian]

Hey, I am all for letting some one willing to fight and die for this country be a citizen. If you make it back from Iraq or where ever alive, we will let YOU be a citizen, your wife/ husband will have to naturalize the legal way though.

[Mike.357]

that ALL MEN are created equal

where were slaves in this equation?

if a person wanted to "fast track" to citizenship, we could do that based on a background check and an honorable discharge from our armed services.

Wasn't this done during the War of Northern Aggression to immigrants right off the boat?

Sign up, survive and beocme a citizen?

[Guest Ghostrider]

ok so, because I choose to not join the military does not make me any less than a citizen or a patriot? There are other ways to support your country. this one seems narrow minded.

Of course not. There would have to be some "grandfathering" and some give & take, but basically, I would see it "as of xyz date" You cannot be a (voting) citizen without an honorable discharge.

Could the handicapped become citizen? Not sure, need to think about it. Probably not.

If I'm born here and not a citizen, what am I? Hopefully, you're not of legal age (no opportunity to serve) and are a "child of a US citizen", that way you're legal here and can't be just "ejected" out of hand.

But there would have to be "degrees" of citizenship with only full-voting-citizens all having done armed service.

I agree that there are other ways to serve your country, but we've all seen how out of control that gets with draft deferments, community service, etc. IMHO, there is no replacement on earth for service in the armed forces. It crystallizes and clarifies what citizenship means like no other system.

BTW, only full-voting-citizens could hold public office.

Agreed...see now we "think before we react"

Actually, I'm not as "trigger happy" as that seems to infer. I consider most positions pretty thoroughly before commenting - and lots of times I just pass on commenting.

I just happen to feel very strongly that we have got to get a hand on this situation, soon. It's very much fixable but it's going to have to make a lot of illegals mad. Giving permanent residence, amnesty, or a "path to citizenship" to a group of people who have flouted our laws is not going to make us "strong", we will be seen as fools and the floodgates will open.

Quite the contrary, making these criminals leave and go through the proper channels like the rest of us mere mortals is the only just, fair, and right thing to do.

I am much in favor of turning off the magnets (jobs and benefits) and the question of "rights" must be answered, and it must be answered for citizens first, or it will be the omega for the republic as we know it. Then we enforce the borders and with it our national identity. Or we won't, and we will fail in all those other problems and cease to be a nation as we know it now.

[Guest canynracer]

Of course not. There would have to be some "grandfathering" and some give & take, but basically, I would see it "as of xyz date" You cannot be a (voting) citizen without an honorable discharge.

Could the handicapped become citizen? Not sure, need to think about it. Probably not.

If I'm born here and not a citizen, what am I? Hopefully, you're not of legal age (no opportunity to serve) and are a "child of a US citizen", that way you're legal here and can't be just "ejected" out of hand.

But there would have to be "degrees" of citizenship with only full-voting-citizens all having done armed service.

I agree that there are other ways to serve your country, but we've all seen how out of control that gets with draft deferments, community service, etc. IMHO, there is no replacement on earth for service in the armed forces. It crystallizes and clarifies what citizenship means like no other system.

BTW, only full-voting-citizens could hold public office.

Actually, I'm not as "trigger happy" as that seems to infer. I consider most positions pretty thoroughly before commenting - and lots of times I just pass on commenting.

I just happen to feel very strongly that we have got to get a hand on this situation, soon. It's very much fixable but it's going to have to make a lot of illegals mad. Giving permanent residence, amnesty, or a "path to citizenship" to a group of people who have flouted our laws is not going to make us "strong", we will be seen as fools and the floodgates will open.

Quite the contrary, making these criminals leave and go through the proper channels like the rest of us mere mortals is the only just, fair, and right thing to do.

I am much in favor of turning off the magnets (jobs and benefits) and the question of "rights" must be answered, and it must be answered for citizens first, or it will be the omega for the republic as we know it. Then we enforce the borders and with it our national identity. Or we won't, and we will fail in all those other problems and cease to be a nation as we know it now.

I feel like Rabbi's avatar...lol....

I agree with starting with the citizens that are making the illegal immigration possible...start with the people paying them.

there is not enough room on this earth for everyone to create their perseption of a perfect world.

[Guest Ghostrider]

So long as it's my vision, I can go along with it...

[Guest canynracer]

So long as it's my vision, I can go along with it...

HAHA...yep...vision is a beautiful thing!

[fury2neon]

Well, for three years I lived near the border and every day people from another country flooded across the border taking our jobs, filling up the hospitals; those darn...

Canadians

I know how to stop illegal immigration tomorrow. End welfare.

[Guest Ghostrider]

I know how to stop illegal immigration tomorrow. End welfare.

But that's only part of the picture.

Turn off the job magnets by seriously ending the business life of anyone hiring them. I also like the idea of doing the same to anyone who rents or otherwise provides aid and comfort to illegals.

But that's based on my belief that this is nothing less than an economic invasion of our country.

Then close the borders.

Then give any illegal in the country 90 days to get out. Those that do not get deported after appropriate punishment for flouting US law.

No loopholes, not path of rewards for law breaking.

The only chance for forgiveness is to get out.

Otherwise it's hard labor for NO pay and then force able deportation.

[The Rabbi]

But that's only part of the picture.

Turn off the job magnets by seriously ending the business life of anyone hiring them. I also like the idea of doing the same to anyone who rents or otherwise provides aid and comfort to illegals.

But that's based on my belief that this is nothing less than an economic invasion of our country.

Then close the borders.

Then give any illegal in the country 90 days to get out. Those that do not get deported after appropriate punishment for flouting US law.

No loopholes, not path of rewards for law breaking.

The only chance for forgiveness is to get out.

Otherwise it's hard labor for NO pay and then force able deportation.

Oh, yeah. That'll work.

Who is going to employ anyone with those sanctions hanging over their head?

Who is going to rent to anyone with those sanctions hanging over their head?

How are we going to "close the border" with billions of dollars of goods flowing in and out every single day?

That is a recipe for disaster. It would be worse than the problem, whatever the problem is.