What if 20 million illegal aliens went back home to Mexico

[Guest TN.Frank]

Yep, many people just dont' understand that a lot of the "illegals" in this country and from Central America as well as Mexico, Canada and other countires. I just wonder if Mexico would have held onto the land we got what they're country would be like today. What with the finding of Gold in Calif,and all the other things. Who knows, in a different world WE may be the ones going to Mexico looking for work instead of it being the other way around. LOL.

[Guest Phantom6]

That of course is unproven and inaccurate. But don't let that stop you.

Ok. Perhaps I mis-spoke. I should have just said in Anderson County, TN. This is according to the local DHS (Dpt. of Human Services office workers) and local officials. Now, is Anderson County so vastly different from other counties in the state? Probably not. Is Tennessee so vastly different from other states in the lower 48 in their revenue problems and how they deal with illegal immagrants? On the whole, probably not. However, the only place I can speak authoritativley on is my home.

If you do not understand reality or if you disagree with it please feel free to substitute your own.

[The Rabbi]

Ok. Perhaps I mis-spoke. I should have just said in Anderson County, TN. This is according to the local DHS (Dpt. of Human Services office workers) and local officials. Now, is Anderson County so vastly different from other counties in the state? Probably not. Is Tennessee so vastly different from other states in the lower 48 in their revenue problems and how they deal with illegal immagrants? On the whole, probably not. However, the only place I can speak authoritativley on is my home.

If you do not understand reality or if you disagree with it please feel free to substitute your own.

You may want to check the county's budget figures on their website. They experienced an increase in revenue from 06/05 to 06/07 of $700k but increased expenditures less than $400k. And the budget is well in balance. So if illegal are causing this they need to invite a few more.

[The Rabbi]

Yep, many people just dont' understand that a lot of the "illegals" in this country and from Central America as well as Mexico, Canada and other countires. I just wonder if Mexico would have held onto the land we got what they're country would be like today. What with the finding of Gold in Calif,and all the other things. Who knows, in a different world WE may be the ones going to Mexico looking for work instead of it being the other way around. LOL.

Mexico probably still has more resources than we do. Lots of countries have resources and are still poorer than other countries that dont. The difference seems to be rule of law. And Mexico doesnt have it to the degree we do.

[molonlabetn]

Mexico has plenty of laws... and plenty of enforcement. It's the widespread corruption and lack of education which has retarded Mexico's social and economic development.

[The Rabbi]

Mexico has plenty of laws... and plenty of enforcement. It's the widespread corruption and lack of education which has retarded Mexico's social and economic development.

The Palestinian Authority has plenty of laws and enforcement. But that doesnt mean there is rule of law there.

[molonlabetn]

It all depends on who you ask... It could be argued that the rule of law is not realized here in the states, by pure definition.

[The Rabbi]

It all depends on who you ask... It could be argued that the rule of law is not realized here in the states, by pure definition.

And some people argue that the US is a police state and George Bush is going to declare himself a dictator. Doesn't make it true.

The existence of rule of law is not an absolute, either yes or no. It is a sliding scale thing. While you can point to examples where a different person in the same circumstances would get a different result (OJ comes to mind), for the most part two litigants will get a fair hearing based on the evidence.

[Guest TN.Frank]

Not so. Mexico, in an attempt to settle the lands now known as Texas officially invited and encouraged folks from the young U.S. as well as other parts of the world to come there and take up residence.

As long as they became Mexican Citizens and became Catholic. Taking over Texas and treating it like a United States Colony wasn't part of the bargin that Mexico made.

All in all They(Mexico) got screwed, today we're getting screwed. There's no easy answer, those that don't have will go to a place where they can get, it's human nature. I'm sure we'd all do the same if the shoe was on the other foot, I know I would.

[molonlabetn]

The question is, does the American people want this country to become more like Mexico, or more like the America of bygone days...

[saintsfanbrian]

The answer is moot. Unless we as an country are willing to hunker down and do what it takes to really STOP the influx of illegal immigration, we might as well just do away with anything like citizenship and start issuing documentation to everyone based solely on their will to have it. The only good side of this is would be that those who don't wish to pay taxes would be able to "legally" give up their citizenship and no longer face the wrath of the IRS.

[Guest TN.Frank]

Which "by gone" days are you talking about? The days when only Native Americans lived here? Like it or not this country is a Nation of emigrants, all of our ancestors have come here from some place else, unless like I said your Native American and even then they came over from China around 10,000 years ago. Emigrants built this country, it's what makes it so great, all those different ideas and nations coming together as one, here, in this Great Nation.

I"m not saying to open the borders or to let people come into the country so they can get handouts, god knows we've got enough people born right here on Welfare and getting handouts. What I am saying is that if someone want's to work and make a better life for their family then we should make it easier for them to come here and have that life. Most "Mexicans" are hard workers that do dirty, back breaking jobs for min. wage and are happy to get the work.

[The Rabbi]

The answer is moot. Unless we as an country are willing to hunker down and do what it takes to really STOP the influx of illegal immigration, we might as well just do away with anything like citizenship and start issuing documentation to everyone based solely on their will to have it. The only good side of this is would be that those who don't wish to pay taxes would be able to "legally" give up their citizenship and no longer face the wrath of the IRS.

There's no question we could "do what it takes." But I don't think anyone wants to live in a police state, which is what you would end up with.

I am constantly amazed that people think cracking down on illegals will somehow not affect them when there is fundamentally very little difference between an illegal and them.

For a comparison, see how the crackdown on illegal gun sales has affected legal gun buyers.

[molonlabetn]

Which "by gone" days are you talking about? The days when only Native Americans lived here? Like it or not this country is a Nation of emigrants, all of our ancestors have come here from some place else, unless like I said your Native American and even then they came over from China around 10,000 years ago. Emigrants built this country, it's what makes it so great, all those different ideas and nations coming together as one, here, in this Great Nation.

I"m not saying to open the borders or to let people come into the country so they can get handouts, god knows we've got enough people born right here on Welfare and getting handouts. What I am saying is that if someone want's to work and make a better life for their family then we should make it easier for them to come here and have that life. Most "Mexicans" are hard workers that do dirty, back breaking jobs for min. wage and are happy to get the work.

Bygone days of America kinda limits us to the last 2 centuries or so... And it has indeed been a 'melting pot' of ethnicity and culture, but that does not justify defined criminal activity which causes net harm to society.

Minimum wage? Yeah right... the cheapness of their labor is due to the fact that their employers are not paying or reporting their wage-determined taxes in most cases.

I'm all-for allowing any person on this planet the opportunity to better themselves, but not on the backs of those who already have (can we say 'socialism'?). And even if that weren't an issue, the uncontrolled numbers of drug dealers, potential terrorists, and carriers of communicable diseases coming in would be more than reason enough to stop the influx.

Do you want children with undiagnosed TB coughing on your kids at school? Reality check... they probably are.

[Guest TN.Frank]

All the things you mentioned already exsist in this country without any help form illegals. One of my main "problems" if you will, with people talking about "illegals" is that more often then not they're talking about "Mexicans" when they are not the only group that are in this country illegally.

I guess the old saying "What goes around comes around" is pretty much true because now we're getting just what we gave to the Native Americans all those years ago.

[Mike.357]

One of my main "problems" if you will, with people talking about "illegals" is that more often then not they're talking about "Mexicans"

I think that it depends on where you reside. When we lived in S. Fla there was plenty of talks of illegals. Only they were not referring to mexicans. Illegals there are understood to mean Haitians and Cubans. And there are different Federal rules on those two groups as to who is allowed to stay here. Haitians who make it onto the beach can stay, Cubans cannot.

[Guest canynracer]

No, they do work that can be done by welfare recipients

No, if they commit a crime here, they should spend time in prison, THEN get deported. If they kill someone, you'll just drop them off in Tijuana and hope for the best?

Just because I break into your house, eat your food and crap in your commode doesn't mean I should stay there does it? That's what these people are doing! Sure, I may mow your grass.. it's a job that you don't want to do. I guess for that reason you should give me amnesty and the upstairs bedroom. Thanks.

Maybe in CA they work for less than minimum wage, but around these parts they get as much or more than the same American worker. They get that because they do the same work and the job foreman don't haev to pay taxes on them.

Great, then they can live with you.

Im not as fancy as all the quotes, So I will respond in numbers...LOL

1. Welfare recipients will not do it, or they would be doing it. (and dont say they cant because the mexicans took all the jobs...there are lots of fields to pick)

2. Depending on the crime, they should be deported...obviously the harsher the crime, the harsher the punishment...this is the same for all criminals, there are sick bastards in every country that should be delt with accordingly. but less serious crimes should be deported, cause I dont want to py for them to be in prison.

3. your welcome, now start paying rent

4. If the employer is hiring them...why are they at fault? if you got a job making more than you ever made in your life, I know you would turn it down cause its not fair...right? that is the employers fault (the employer is most likely an American citizen)

5. they do, hence this thread. :-\

I am not saying I have the perfect answer, I am saying that making a knee jerk reaction without thinking it through is not the right way. There are more than just mexicans here that are illegal. Some are good people, they work, they obey the laws. You cannot judge the entire body of foreigners because some break the law.

Another thing to take in, how is our image to the world going to be when we kick out 20 million people (and that is just the Mexicans)? like it or not, it will hurt. Oh I know, who cares what they think, right

[molonlabetn]

All the things you mentioned already exsist in this country without any help form illegals.

What other criminal activity and social degradation should we allow (or promote), since it always has and always will exist?

One of my main "problems" if you will, with people talking about "illegals" is that more often then not they're talking about "Mexicans" when they are not the only group that are in this country illegally.

What you call a problem, is a lack of political correctness by those who call it like they see it. Illegals are illegals, and Mexicans are Mexicans... one is not always the other, but without a doubt the overwhelming majority of illegals are Mexicans. If the Canadians were pouring over our northern border looking for a handout, bringing drugs and crime and disease... I'd have a problem with those Canadians, too.

It's like one's house... when you discover that insects are coming into your house for food, you clean up and rid yourself of them. If they are ants, you call them 'ants', if they are termites, you call them 'termites'... if you have a termite problem, that doesn't mean you may not have some ants running around too, but your main problem is the termites.

I guess the old saying "What goes around comes around" is pretty much true because now we're getting just what we gave to the Native Americans all those years ago.

So, what do we owe the Mexican people, then? Are you suggesting that we owe Mexicans jobs because we did horrible things to Native Americans? Those are two totally different groups... if anything it's the Spanish and Portuguese who should be shouldering the burden of the Mexican people, if reparations are truly in order.

The comparison is weak, anyways, since colonists didn't come to this continent looking for jobs and free health-care from the natives . And you can bet that once their presence was undesirable to the natives, they did their darnedest to take back their territory.

[The Rabbi]

What you call a problem, is a lack of political correctness by those who call it like they see it. Illegals are illegals, and Mexicans are Mexicans... one is not always the other, but without a doubt the overwhelming majority of illegals are Mexicans.

It depends on whether you would call 57% an "overwhelming majority." I wouldn't personally.

[molonlabetn]

It depends on whether you would call 57% an "overwhelming majority." I wouldn't personally.

Considering that 10 times as many come from Mexico than any other country... and 5 times as many from Central America than any other continent yes, you betcha!

http://www.census.gov/population/documentation/twps0061/taba-6.pdf

[Rightwinger]

I could sit and watch Rabbi and Molonlabetn for days ! !

Oh yeah, I have been:)

[Guest Ghostrider]

Some are good people, they work, they obey the laws. You cannot judge the entire body of foreigners because some break the law.

No, they do not obey the laws. They must break at least FOUR laws every day to be here illegally and work.

Yes, I can judge this whole batch as one because they have ALL broken the law. Yes, I sometimes break the law by speeding, following too closely, and things of that nature. If caught I will pay for it.

But I don't steal other peoples SSNs, sneak into other countries and take advantage of those peoples good nature to the tune of billions per year. In most all cases, if they are caught breaking these laws, they are just sent home and can be back in a few weeks, or less.

So maybe there is some magically degree of "illegality" that has to be passed before it's a crime deserving of punishment?

Another thing to take in, how is our image to the world going to be when we kick out 20 million people (and that is just the Mexicans)? like it or not, it will hurt. Oh I know, who cares what they think, right

EXACTLY.

I could give 3 shats about what the rest of the world thinks. Other than, if we get tough and do what we should be doing (what is right and just) then maybe some of the attacks on us will cool off a bit.

Example: I'm betting if we sabotaged the chinese currency, it would be all over the world and we'd be some sort of horrible culture (again) but let the chinese do it to us, it's our fault. right........

[Guest TN.Frank]

The comparison is weak, anyways, since colonists didn't come to this continent looking for jobs and free health-care from the natives . And you can bet that once their presence was undesirable to the natives, they did their darnedest to take back their territory.

But we did take the Native Americans land and game which cut into thier life style to which they were use to. Same as you're saying the "Mexicans" are taking all the free government handouts and jobs that should go to Americans.

When I lived in Phoenix I was right in the middle of where many "illegals" lived and for the most part the ones that were here illegally weren't the ones causing all the crime or getting the handouts. They were decent, hard working people that minded their own business. It was the American born "Mexicans" that caused all the problems, got the government handouts, dealt the drugs and did the drive-bys. Americans that were already here were the problem, not the illegals. Now I'm not saying that ALL illegals are Saints or that ALL American born Latinos are criminals, it's just the way it looked, it was like the illegals were just pretty much here to work and take care of their families, not cause trouble.

Maybe we should think about deporting 20 Million American Freeloaders down to Mexico and keep the 20 Million "illegals" that hold down a job and help this country do it's daily business.

[Guest canynracer]

No, they do not obey the laws. They must break at least FOUR laws every day to be here illegally and work.

Yes, I can judge this whole batch as one because they have ALL broken the law. Yes, I sometimes break the law by speeding, following too closely, and things of that nature. If caught I will pay for it.

But I don't steal other peoples SSNs, sneak into other countries and take advantage of those peoples good nature to the tune of billions per year. In most all cases, if they are caught breaking these laws, they are just sent home and can be back in a few weeks, or less.

So maybe there is some magically degree of "illegality" that has to be passed before it's a crime deserving of punishment?

EXACTLY.

1. so, if they get caught they pay the consequesnce just like you do. Also, according to the original post, they do NOT get sent back, remember, they are in prision, that is why we are overpopulated, in debt and no "legal" person can get a job, it costs us millions, billions, trillons, kabillions of dollars to keep the illegals in prision...

not ALL steal SSNs...and a little secret for you, AMERICANS ON WELFARE DO THAT TOO!!! i am not sure where you are gettng these "Facts" but whatever, its like the quote on your signature...NOT TRUE: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/recoil.asp

There is no magical degree...it exists NOW, look around, will a legal citizen spend his whole life in prision for robbery? NO...Murder? Hmm, sometimes, it all depends

I could give 3 shats about what the rest of the world thinks. Other than, if we get tough and do what we should be doing (what is right and just) then maybe some of the attacks on us will cool off a bit.

so, we become a country alone in the world with no allies...ummm, that is called vunerable, it would not cool off attacks it opens the doors.

Example: I'm betting if we sabotaged the chinese currency, it would be all over the world and we'd be some sort of horrible culture (again) but let the chinese do it to us, it's our fault. right........

yeah, that sucks...but why is that the illegals fault?

once again,

I do not know all of the answers, I am in IT, not politics, I vote for the politician that stand up for what I believe is good.

sitting here and complaining about how the american life is dammed because of illegal aliens is NOT the thing I believe is good. Do I think its a problem? Hell YES, but just kicking them out and becoming this militarized zone is not the answer (once again, my belief)

my question is this, what make YOU an American citizen? paperwork?

[molonlabetn]

But we did take the Native Americans land and game which cut into thier life style to which they were use to. Same as you're saying the "Mexicans" are taking all the free government handouts and jobs that should go to Americans.

When I lived in Phoenix I was right in the middle of where many "illegals" lived and for the most part the ones that were here illegally weren't the ones causing all the crime or getting the handouts. They were decent, hard working people that minded their own business. It was the American born "Mexicans" that caused all the problems, got the government handouts, dealt the drugs and did the drive-bys. Americans that were already here were the problem, not the illegals. Now I'm not saying that ALL illegals are Saints or that ALL American born Latinos are criminals, it's just the way it looked, it was like the illegals were just pretty much here to work and take care of their families, not cause trouble.

Maybe we should think about deporting 20 Million American Freeloaders down to Mexico and keep the 20 Million "illegals" that hold down a job and help this country do it's daily business.

Wow... just, wow...