The Next Columbine?

[The Rabbi]

Take a look at this story. I am deeply troubled by the public reaction. Was what the kid did odd? Yes, probably. But teenagers do odd stuff.

Was it criminal, enough to suggest he was plotting the next Columbine? I dont think so.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/oct/18/me-teens-arsenal-packs-mystery/?news-metro

AKELAND - Shawn Keiffer Newberry bought his first Kalashnikov-style semiautomatic rifles from Vets Army Navy surplus on consecutive January days this year, shortly after he turned 18. Newberry paid for the $575 and $555 rifles with a wad of cash. That seemed odd to the store's owner, Michael Dunn, but other than that, Newberry seemed little different from anyone else with an interest in collecting the iconic weapon. It was completely legal.

It was Oct. 3 before Newberry's behavior, and a small arsenal he'd collected by that time, truly hit a nerve. That's when he walked into a Lakeland charter school where he recently had enrolled - wearing body armor, authorities say.

[molonlabetn]

He did nothing illegal (according to what was mentioned in the story)... I see no reason for an arrest. If a psychiatric examination was in order, that should have been done long ago, but it seems to me that the authorities are simply wanting to turn him into an example.

Given the nature of some neighborhoods and schools, I don't think it's unreasonable at all for a person to see the benefit of wearing body armor when they are unable to carry a defensive weapon. Though simply doing so is unconventional doesn't make it wrong.

If everyone was judged based on what they might do, or have the capability of doing, then most of the population would be behind bars. The kind of criminal acts which they seem to be suspecting him of require malicious intent, or grave irresponsibility... neither is provable in this instance, unless there is something about this story which has not been made public (such as death lists, terroristic plans, or some other recorded threat). A psych exam might be justified, considering the situation, but I think that they may have already killed any chance of building a case by not observing him for a while to see what he was really about...

Just based on what has been reported, the school and department deserve a hefty lawsuit.

[waynesan]

1. Purchased 2 AKs on consecutive days.

2. Purchased body armor.

3. Purchased a third AK.

4. Purchased a taser.

5. Purchased a tactical helmet.

6. Purchased a shotgun.

7. Purchased "clear out grenades".

8. Wore body armor to school.

9. Had been arrested in the past for carrying a concealed weapon.

10. Having trouble dealing with his mothers death.

Odd behavior? - to say the least. Since it is apparently against the law to be in posession of the spray on school grounds, law enforcement had to arrest him. If he was planning on some Columbine replay, maybe evidence will be found from the stuff they took from his home. I don't think this kind of behavior can be ignored. If my kid was a student in that school, I wouldn't want this to be ignored.

[Mike.357]

The kid seems a little off but me determining he is a little off does not make his activities illegal, just to me a little out of the norm.

I do question where he got money for the arms and munitions he was buying. Thats a lot of cash for an 18 year old to have. Maybe he was the beneficiary of insurance realted to his mothers death.

Personally I hope he was doing nothing wrong and sues the pants off of some people.

The story says he was previously arrested for a concealed weapons charge. I for one am proof to the fact you can be charged and not be guilty. If he had been found guilty his purchase of a firearm would be denied. So from this I assume he was not found guilty of those charges and really they have no bearing. Also is his school a real school, like one most of us attended or is it something else?

[jgrauman]

He did nothing illegal (according to what was mentioned in the story)

The kid seems a little off but me determining he is a little off does not make his activities illegal, just to me a little out of the norm.

Was it criminal...

Newberry was arrested on the school weapon charge, related to the spray

[jgrauman]

I do question where he got money for the arms and munitions he was buying. Thats a lot of cash for an 18 year old to have. Maybe he was the beneficiary of insurance realted to his mothers death.

had a buddy growing up that had a newspaper route from the time he was 13, had saved over $10k and paid cash for his first car by the time he was 18.

[Guest c.a.s.]

The spray canister was empty, acording to all of the articles linked in the threads that went on at The High Road a week or so back.

[molonlabetn]

Newberry was arrested on the school weapon charge, related to the spray

Which was discovered based on a search warrant which was issued for simply wearing body armor (which was not illegal). And his bail was set for $605,000! Talk about heavy-handed knee-jerking without justification...

Too bad the guy didn't simpy respond to the question of why he was wearing a vest with:

"Well, why are you wearing a vest, officer? Are you planning on terrorizing the whole school, or just me?"

[creeky]

When asked about the vest he would only say "I have my reasons."

That isn't good enough for me. Some would say if your not breaking

the law you shouldn't have to give a reason... but common sense should

come into play at some point. He's not wearing it in his house, he's walking the halls.

Talking to Police on how to "defeat" body armor doesn't sound real

bright to me either. I'm all for individual rights and all... but being a parent,

I think they did the right thing. I would want the kid looked into.

If you flip this, and you were the cop at the school... and you see

a kid that has a armor vest on, would you not want to ask him a couple

of questions? If you found a "Clear out gernade" in his car wouldn't you

want to investigate him further? Or would you want to be the one that let it slide?

At 18... you gather that much ammo, buy a couple of AKs, "Clear Out Gernades", and Body Armor... don't clamplain when you get stopped and asked a lot of questions and possibly detained.

It's like having your tounge, lip, and eyebrow pierced... don't act offended when me and my kids stare, you knew how society viewed it when you got it done so don't expect special treatment or the bulk of society to all of a sudden change how they view it.

[jgrauman]

Which was discovered based on a search warrant which was issued for simply wearing body armor (which was not illegal).

i hear ya about the search, but at our high school they could search anything, anytime they wanted. we had random searches of our lockers, backpacks, and parking lots. if a drug dog found your car to be suspicous, they called you out of class and you opened up your car for them.

[bteague2]

But people don't get arrested and held for face piercings...

[creeky]

But people don't get arrested and held for face piercings...

Correct... they are allowed in some schools and aren't against the law.

(Unlike the Gas gernades. Which is why he was arrested.)

But wearing the vest (IMHO) deserves more than just a glance, more questions would be warrented it would seem.

I'm all for peoples rights and all... but I don't see where asking a kid

a straight out (reasonable) question is violating his rights. But i do think giving a cocky smart remark like "I have my reasons." only cause more problems.

[saintsfanbrian]

1. Purchased 2 AKs on consecutive days. - Not Illegal

2. Purchased body armor. - Not Illegal

3. Purchased a third AK. - Not Illegal

4. Purchased a taser. - Not Illegal

5. Purchased a tactical helmet. - Not Illegal

6. Purchased a shotgun. - Not Illegal

7. Purchased "clear out grenades". - Don't know the legality.

8. Wore body armor to school. - Not Illegal

9. Had been arrested in the past for carrying a concealed weapon. - No Guilty and if he was under 18 then sealed.

10. Having trouble dealing with his mothers death. - Not Illegal

Is dude off? Maybe, should he have thought better about wearing armor to school? Probably. Should he have popped off to the cop? Nope, but then again, at 18 I had the sense of a gnat which is why I did many of the things I did.

Should he be seeking some kind of help if he is having issues with his mothers death? Probably but he shouldn't be denied the purchase of a firearm because if it.

As for the wad of cash, I spent mine to quickly but when I was 15 I was working 32 hours a week at McDonald's to be able to afford my guitar habit.

[creeky]

1. Purchased 2 AKs on consecutive days. - Not Illegal

2. Purchased body armor. - Not Illegal

3. Purchased a third AK. - Not Illegal

4. Purchased a taser. - Not Illegal

5. Purchased a tactical helmet. - Not Illegal

6. Purchased a shotgun. - Not Illegal

7. Purchased "clear out grenades". - Don't know the legality.

8. Wore body armor to school. - Not Illegal

9. Had been arrested in the past for carrying a concealed weapon. - No Guilty and if he was under 18 then sealed.

10. Having trouble dealing with his mothers death. - Not Illegal

Worth looking into? Yeah... I think so. But that is just me.

[jgrauman]

had this kid done something all of us would be reading "and two weeks ago officers noticed the kid was wearing body armor and didn't question him." we'd all be saying, "what the hell, he comes to school wearing body armor and they don't even question him, had they, they might have found out what he was planning." come on people, let's put this in perspective, there's a difference between expelling a kid for writting something in a blog, speaking out in class and rocking body armor to class and act suspicous when questioned by officers. columbine is examined by every SWAT unit in america as a huge mistake that must be learned from. the intelligence level of the "kneejurkers" is not very high (IMHO) and they do tend to violate a lot of individual rights, but in this case (again IMHO) i'm glad they stopped the kid. i'd rather be having this discussion about his rights being violated (which can be rectified with a lawsuit and some cash, even though it was still wrong) rather than having a RTKBA discussion of allowing teachers to carry because another student killed a bunch of kids.

[The Rabbi]

That is exactly the issue: if two weeks later he had pulled a Columbine everyone would be wondering why "something wasn't done." That is what is driving the whole thing.

There was no reason to hold him on 600k bail. He did nothing illegal (other than what's been stipulated here). And yet the supposition is that he is a criminal until proven otherwise.

That is exactly the problem. People have to prove to someone's satisfaction that they are not criminals.

Whats next? Carrying concealed. What do you say when someone asks you why you are carrying? "I have my reasons." Would it then be OK to assume you were planning on holding up a liquor store and arrest you for something or other?

A lot of things that look normal to us in the gun world look weird to outsiders. Friends in NY ask how many guns I have and I tell them honestly I've lost count (20-25). That sounds weird. It's an arsenal. It's scary. Maybe I am planning on arming the Jewish militia and having CPAs and diamond dealers run the government. Maybe I need to be detained until we can just sort all this out and establish I am not a criminal.

[saintsfanbrian]

Hey- I am not a CPA or a diamond dealer, can I come along in your government to work on the computers. God knows you will have them and need them running.

[saintsfanbrian]

It was right of the police to question him. It is wrong to hold him on that high of a bail. If you really think he is a danger to society send him to psych for a workup.

[The Rabbi]

Hey- I am not a CPA or a diamond dealer, can I come along in your government to work on the computers. God knows you will have them and need them running.

Maybe. You been circumcized? Recently?

[Mike.357]

had this kid done something all of us would be reading "and two weeks ago officers noticed the kid was wearing body armor and didn't question him." we'd all be saying, "what the hell, he comes to school wearing body armor and they don't even question him, had they, they might have found out what he was planning."

I agree some looking into this neded to be done. But 600K in bail is a little weird too.

There are people accused of committing actual violent crimes who do not get his deal.

Rabbi I am not quoting your entire post but I agree 100%

Maybe I need to be detained until we can just sort all this out and establish I am not a criminal.

been there did that

[bteague2]

I'm not saying your wrong, stop him ask him questions. As his answers wasn't sufficient or even an answer at all and the death of his mother have him committed for a physiological evaluation.

I'm a college student, I have more then one gun, I have a growing collection of rounds for those guns, last week I wore a holster to school; does that make me the next Virginia Tech?

[molonlabetn]

I'm not saying your wrong, stop him ask him questions. As his answers wasn't sufficient or even an answer at all and the death of his mother have him committed for a physiological evaluation.

I'm a college student, I have more then one gun, I have a growing collection of rounds for those guns, last week I wore a holster to school; does that make me the next Virginia Tech?

Only if you have high-capacity magazines, of course!

[Mike.357]

Only if you have standard-capacity magazines, of course!

There, fixed it for ya;)

[molonlabetn]

There, fixed it for ya;)

Doesn't quite convey the sarcasm I intended that way though...

[Mike.357]

I am just big on not calling magazines high capacity. My S&W has a 16 shot standard capacity mag, I preferred that mag over the low capacity one that holds less rounds.

I guess if a mag held 80 rounds I might be good with that being a hi cap