Drawing and firing...

[Guest Ben]

How does one incorporate your weak hand technique when drawing from an untucked shirt? I use my weak hand to "rip" the shirt, and draw with my strong hand. Moving the shirt and then drawing with the same hand is slow and unreliable, IMO.

It is a solid question. the answer is what has been mentioned already and that is pulling the shirt up (using thumb or fingers) and drawing with the dominant hand while using your support hand to attack, block, grab etc...

The training I use is meant to be as efficient with movement as possible while allowing you to operate the same way under various conditions, the same way every time (muscle memory).

For instance, if you are wearing an opened button down shirt and carrying concealed, are you still going to open the shirt for the draw using your non dominant hand or are you going to swipe the open side with your dominant hand for the draw? I will use my dominant hand on this draw just like I will use my dominant hand with an untucked shirt.

1 technique for various scenarios.

Also, if I am working a VIP/close protection detail, my support hand will need to be on the VIP removing the VIP from the kill zone while my dominant hand draws and fires.

This same concept will apply if you are carrying groceries, carrying a baby, pushing your wife behind you to get her out of the line of attack etc...

Think about it this way...If your support hand is carrying something that cannot be dropped (a baby for instance), you will be forced to use your dominant hand for the shirt lift and the draw.

If you are attacked by 2 people and one has control of your support hand, you will be forced to draw using your dominant hand.

If you use your support hand to ward off an attack (a baseball bat or a pipe or a knife etc..., you will be forced to use your dominant hand to do both functions.)

The scenarios for using your dominant hand for both can go on for many paragraphs. Simply because one way is "easier" than another does not make that way the most efficient under multiple scenarios.

It does take practice to get the draw right but not too much to be honest.

Nice shooting by the way!

Edited December 1, 2009 by Ben

[deerslayer]

For instance, if you are wearing an opened button down shirt and carrying concealed, are you still going to open the shirt for the draw using your non dominant hand or are you going to swipe the open side with your dominant hand for the draw? I will use my dominant hand on this draw just like I will use my dominant hand with an untucked shirt.

1 technique for various scenarios.

Also, if I am working a VIP/close protection detail, my support hand will need to be on the VIP removing the VIP from the kill zone while my dominant hand draws and fires.

Drawing with an open button down and drawing with an untucked polo are two totally different motions/techniques when done with the same hand (or so it would seem to me)--basically two different draws to learn. The motion/path of the strong hand is basically identical in both situations when doing it my way.

How often does a VIP protection detail conceal their handguns with an untucked shirt?

I'm sure somebody out there is faster than me when drawing from an untucked polo with one hand; it just doesn't work for me. Perhaps you move the untucked shirt with a totally different method than what I am picturing.

Thanks for the compliment.

[Guest Ben]

Drawing with open shirt versus open polo are different techniques (sweeping verusus lifitng) but I am still using the same hand to execute both while allowing my support hand to also be used as a "tool". It is actually quite simple to lift a polo up and draw.

The VIP protection example was not strictly an example for carrying with an untucked shirt. Rather, it is an example of another scenario when you must use your support hand for another vital function, not the draw.

(but, to be fair, I have worked many details in street clothes like jeans and a T-shirt where the VIP wants his security team to blend in with a crowd..)

I guess to sum it up...I want to use the same hand every time for every scenario (or the vast majority of scenarios) keeping technique simple and effective. My dominant hand lifts up a shirt, or sweeps back a shirt, or reaches for a cross draw while driving while my support hand comes up to strike, block, grab, move someone out of harms way, carry groceries, holds a baby..etc...

The fastest draw will not determine the outcome of the fight....

Edited December 1, 2009 by Ben

[deerslayer]

I enjoyed the videos you posted a while back. Perhaps you could make a quick video about drawing from different types of concealment.

[titan14]

This thread is very very interesting...I posted just to say..."Hell, I'm trying!"

I am really enjoying the comments and am very seriously considering "official" training somewhere....

THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!

[Guest Ben]

I enjoyed the videos you posted a while back. Perhaps you could make a quick video about drawing from different types of concealment.

Great idea. After he Expo I will do this and post it.

[Chief07]

well...today i decided to draw from my holster and fire a few rounds.

It was scary at first, but, i found that after about 5 rounds it was FUN as hell!!!!!!!!!!

I carry a Taurus Mil-pro .45, I had it in a OWB holster. I drew, dropped the safety and fired....one round at a time.

I actually surprised myself at how quick i was able to drop the safety, acquire the target and fire.

this is the first time I have ever tried this.

I fired a total of 20 rounds at about 30 feet.

18 out of 20 hit the paper(large pistol target, but imagined a torso target)

5 of the 18 were in the black...all 18 would have hit the torso......I am proud of myself(tooting my own horn here), as I have had no training on this method ever.

Any hints or techniques would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

If you have Direct TV, on Saturday mornings they have a showcalled personal defence TV.They go through step by step on the proper wayto draw and fire. I found it very interesting and cleared upat lease 1 bad habit I had.Check it out.

[Guest yzfMrLee]

If you have Direct TV, on Saturday mornings they have a showcalled personal defence TV

What channel? Sounds interesting!

[Superman]

SportSouth it comes on around 6am

[Cannon Fodder]

7 minutes into this video is the best demonstration I could find right now. I will keep an eye out for a better demo of this method.

What he talks about with the holster collapsing is what I hate about my Bianchi 100. It is about the only complaint I have about it.

[titan14]

Didn't read it all but if you can't get off the X while drawing and shooting what is the point. Standing still = bullet magnet. As Gabe says if in the hole make the other guy so uncomfortable he wants to leave, if not run and shoot accurately.

To make this a little more realistic and practice worth doing invest in the airsofts from Saurez International and try an AIWB holster. Glocks Rock

First things first....Glocks SUCK!

Secondly.....why get OFF the X if the first shot is deadly???????

Third....AIRSOFT???....I don't PLAY with toys....neither do i PRACTICE with toys.....

[Guest Ben]

Didn't read it all but if you can't get off the X while drawing and shooting what is the point. Standing still = bullet magnet. As Gabe says if in the hole make the other guy so uncomfortable he wants to leave, if not run and shoot accurately.

To make this a little more realistic and practice worth doing invest in the airsofts from Saurez International and try an AIWB holster. Glocks Rock

While movement is very high on the "important things to do while under attack" list, ALWAYS getting "off the X" is not ALWAYS the proper move to make.

What if you are with your kids, side by side? You get off the X and leave your children in the path of an attacking gunman? If you run away from the shooter and start blasting away while running, 1 handed, and there are bystanders around (your children for instance), you are going to be knee deep in ****.

I do not believe that teaching someone to "Always, no matter what, get off the X and if you don't get of the X, don't bother drawing and shooting" is a proper technique.

Another point to consider....Running off the X is easy to do when you are training in a known environment, with flat ground and no barriers. But the world is not flat and there are always things in the way. I would hate to see a "I always get off the X" guy trip over a curb or slam into a parked car as he is trying to move.

This technique is very good to employ for many scenarios but it is not a technique that should be taught solely, in my opinion.

To immediately respond, in a brutal, fast and aggressive fashion, to the initial attacker(s) and THEN to get off the initial line of attack (aka "the X), is, in my opinion and experience, much more effective. Among other advantages, you will have, quicker, more effective shot placement.

I am not one to rely on shooting one handed while moving laterally at a moving target unless I am in an absolutely sterile environment with no "innocents".

I respect all opinions and I respect many schools of thought on this matter. What I do not care for is an "all or none, my way or no way" approach. Combat is dynamic. Scenarios change for better or worse.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Ben

[Guest bnutriaz]

i allway practise pulling from a "surrender" position (both hands up over head).

in my experience nothing increases speed as good as that exercise. I also practise close quarters engagement by shooting at targets with gun in hand with weapon weld at mid torso(side of rib cage). the third exercise i use is the "failure drill" from a non-surender position, i pull from a consealed posture engaging target with 2 in the chest and 1 in the head. I am not jerry miclich, but i will bet on my self against your average street punk anyday!

Coop

[titan14]

i allway practise pulling from a "surrender" position (both hands up over head).

in my experience nothing increases speed as good as that exercise. I also practise close quarters engagement by shooting at targets with gun in hand with weapon weld at mid torso(side of rib cage). the third exercise i use is the "failure drill" from a non-surender position, i pull from a consealed posture engaging target with 2 in the chest and 1 in the head. I am not jerry miclich, but i will bet on my self against your average street punk anyday!

Coop

Coop? or COOP?...im confused....