Drawing and firing...

[titan14]

well...today i decided to draw from my holster and fire a few rounds.

It was scary at first, but, i found that after about 5 rounds it was FUN as hell!!!!!!!!!!

I carry a Taurus Mil-pro .45, I had it in a OWB holster. I drew, dropped the safety and fired....one round at a time.

I actually surprised myself at how quick i was able to drop the safety, acquire the target and fire.

this is the first time I have ever tried this.

I fired a total of 20 rounds at about 30 feet.

18 out of 20 hit the paper(large pistol target, but imagined a torso target)

5 of the 18 were in the black...all 18 would have hit the torso......I am proud of myself(tooting my own horn here), as I have had no training on this method ever.

Any hints or techniques would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

[andersmg]

I practice as often as I can drawing from concealment and firing. I point shoot when I do this, I try to make it as close to what I imagine would be my reaction if I ever need to draw and shoot. I use no sights, just point and shoot, and I only do this at a range of about 5 to 7 yds....

[Guest clsutton21]

You could always practice like I did with my SA .357 mag. Draw, point, fan... It may not be the safest way to practice, but I got enough to be faster than the average dude. lol

[kwe45919]

The only thing to say is practice, practice, practice! Get the fluidity of the motions down pat BEFORE you start working on speed. Speed usually come naturally if the presentation is smooth......

[Guest truthsayer]

My offering is this:

Get training asap. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In addition, you'll avoid developing too many bad habits.

[DaveTN]

Any hints or techniques would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

Get some snap caps and practice the drawing at home. That will allow you to concentrate more on the point instinct shooting at the range.

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice.

[CatsEye]

Any hints or techniques would be greatly appreciated.

I hope shooting at the range isn't the first time you have worked on this. New techniques should not be worked on live.

My recommendation is to work on this by dry firing at home. Don't even try to do it full speed. Practice at half speed while focusing on technique and efficiency of movement. Focus on keeping your finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot.

I practice this and other similar stuff for IDPA all the time and 80% of the time it is done at home at 50-75% speed with snap caps.

[nightrunner]

after you have this down start trying double taps and headshots

[Superman]

CIS teaches to get the gun in the fight as soon as possible. When you draw bring the gun straight up to your ribs. The butt of the gun touching around the top of your ribs just below your chest. With the gun leaning out and down, that way you can take shots at an attacker that is within arms reach and they won't be able to get the gun.

7 minutes into this video is the best demonstration I could find right now. I will keep an eye out for a better demo of this method.

[deerslayer]

Assuming you don't have any injuries/disabilities to deal with, economy of motion will speed up your draw. In other words, don't make any more moves or motion than necessary. A good technique to try is re-holstering with the least motion. Your gun should travel along basically the same axis when drawing. After you've cut all unnecessary motion from your draw and feel competent, you can adjust where your finger first contacts the trigger. Lots of competitive shooters begin to "prep" the trigger (take the slack out of the trigger movement) way before the gun is fully extended. If you shoot one gun most of the time and get to know your trigger pretty well, this is not very hard to add to your draw with a little practice. Dry fire practice is cheap and effective.

Edited November 29, 2009 by deerslayer

[Guest Todd@CIS]

My offering is this:

Get training asap. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In addition, you'll avoid developing too many bad habits.

+1

A proper draw is extremely important and most people's are very inefficient. In the last 6 months or so, we've made some changes to our Advanced Concealed Carry and Defensive Pistol classes to put more emphasis on the draw than we did previously.

Dustin and I have been hitting this pretty hard at the Police Dept as well. IMO and experience, the draw is very neglected in many schools (both LEO and private sector...and hell, my military instruction on it was the worst).

Honestly, any help / pointers would be tough through an internet forum.

Video wise? I think ShivWorks has some really good stuff regarding the drawstroke in their "Fighting Pistol 1."

Edited November 30, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest redbarron06]

Dustin and I have been hitting this pretty hard at the Police Dept as well. IMO and experience, the draw is very neglected in many (not all) schools (both LEO and private sector...and hell, my military instruction on it was the worst).

Military taught you to draw?? That is more than they have taught me.

[eapking]

My offering is this:

Get training asap. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In addition, you'll avoid developing too many bad habits.

+1...beat me to the suggestion.

[Guest Ben]

Of course training with a reputable instructor is the best way to improve your technique.

With that said, a good draw technique will be one that will allow you to be as efficient with your motion as possible while also allowing you the ability to fire, while drawing, from multiple positions:

The retention position

The (what I teach) "scan position"

The (also what I teach) "Shooting on the run" position

The fully extended position

Remember, you want the least amount of motion to get you to the same conclusion while still allowing you multiple, usable functions. (economy or efficiency of movement)

I say "what I teach" simply because these are positions that I teach my operators and that I have not seen anywhere else. You may find other training techniques from other instructors that seem just as logical for you.

The other part of the draw that is unique and vital to the Israeli Combat Training method is using your support hand as a tool to strike, block, grab etc rather than placing it on your chest like most standrad draw strokes that I have seen. This part of the draw is something that is not seen anywhere besides Israeli Combat Training.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Military taught you to draw?? That is more than they have taught me.

LOL, exactly.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

The other part of the draw that is unique and vital to the Israeli Combat Training method is using your support hand as a tool to strike, block, grab etc rather than placing it on your chest like most standrad draw strokes that I have seen. This part of the draw is something that is not seen anywhere besides Israeli Combat Training.

Now Ben, c'mon...

We teach it, Gabe Suarez teaches it, SouthNarc teaches it.

I don't think any of us are Israeli.

[poak]

Military taught you to draw??

[Guest Ben]

Now Ben, c'mon...

We teach it, Gabe Suarez teaches it, SouthNarc teaches it.

I don't think any of us are Israeli.

I have never seen Gabe Suarez teach the method I instruct. I have only seen him bring support hand to mid chest level. (this is based on what I have seen in videos of his as I have never taken his courses).

SouthNarc does not seem to teach this method as I know they bring the support hand to mid chest as well..(again, only based on multiple videos I have seen of the Shivworks 4 point draw stroke).

As for CIS, I do not know. Do you have any video of your draw stroke? It is possible that we are talking about two different techniques that may sound similar.

I do not mean to knock anyone else as I believe strongly that all instructors have great technique to offer, all are excellent in their respective styles and techniques.

I simply have never seen another instructor teach the method I teach.

Maybe I am dead wrong but I cannot find (nor have I heard from operators that I have trained who had been at other, nationally known training schools) anyone who incorporates the similar draw stroke that I teach.

If you do, cool beans man. It is a logical, smart draw stroke.

[Guest Muttling]

Of course training with a reputable instructor is the best way to improve your technique.

With that said, a good draw technique will be one that will allow you to be as efficient with your motion as possible while also allowing you the ability to fire, while drawing, from multiple positions:

The retention position

The (what I teach) "scan position"

The (also what I teach) "Shooting on the run" position

The fully extended position

I'm curious.....Does this mean that the photo in your avatar is something that you don't teach or does it mean that it's not a fully extended position?

[Guest Ben]

The photo in the Avatar is the fully extended position.

Arms locked out

Head tucked and forward

By writing "what I teach" I was simply trying to get across that these techniques are almost exclsuive to Israeli Combat Training.

Retention and fully extended are universally taught by various schools of instruction. The Israeli Scan position is unique as is the "shooting on the run" position (and they are both part of the initial draw).

[deerslayer]

The other part of the draw that is unique and vital to the Israeli Combat Training method is using your support hand as a tool to strike, block, grab etc rather than placing it on your chest like most standrad draw strokes that I have seen. This part of the draw is something that is not seen anywhere besides Israeli Combat Training.

How does one incorporate your weak hand technique when drawing from an untucked shirt? I use my weak hand to "rip" the shirt, and draw with my strong hand. Moving the shirt and then drawing with the same hand is slow and unreliable, IMO.

[Superman]

But if you are FTF with an attacker who has a knife or gun of his own, you will need to use your weak hand to defend while you draw.

[deerslayer]

And fumbling with an untucked shirt and then trying to draw with the same hand is awkward and may get you killed. Damed if you do, damned if you don't. Me personally, if the attacker is so close that I have to use my weak to fight him off, it's probably too late to try for my gun anyway.

[Superman]

IDK, I actually prefer using the same hand to pull the shirt up and draw. I think with practice you could draw fairly efficiently this way.

[deerslayer]

I tinkered with both. I could draw w/ same hand almost as quickly, but with much less reliability. By that I mean half the time I missed the shirt or fumbled with it or got my fingers tangled up in it or whatever. Ripping w/ weak hand works every time for me, and is quicker. Here is an example of what I'm talking about. I'm the first guy in the dark green shirt. My draw was sloppy, and I've streamlined my presentation since this video, but you get the point.

Edited December 1, 2009 by deerslayer