I ruined my M44

[G27]

Windex (with Ammonia-D) doesn't actually have any ammonia in it - ammonia-D is just a trademarked name for their mix of butyl cellosolve and isopropyl alcohol. Windex is about 97% water, that's what's doing it.

Just run a patch or two with some cleaner (Hoppes or similar) at the range then flush with boiling water when you get home. No need to get fancy.

[Capbyrd]

Things like this are why I just paid alot more to buy new factory ammo.

[G27]

Things like this are why I just paid alot more to buy new factory ammo.

Your choice, but my last shipment of x54r cost .22/rnd. It's pretty simple to keep them running perfectly, easily worth the savings, imo.

Of course, I always clean my guns as soon as I get home, anyway.

[Guest GenNBForrest]

Windex (with Ammonia-D) doesn't actually have any ammonia in it - ammonia-D is just a trademarked name for their mix of butyl cellosolve and isopropyl alcohol. Windex is about 97% water, that's what's doing it.

Just run a patch or two with some cleaner (Hoppes or similar) at the range then flush with boiling water when you get home. No need to get fancy.

Yes..Windex brand, but the cheaper store band window cleaners still have real ammonia.

Good read:

Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle - Cleaning After Shooting Corrosive Ammunition

[Guest GenNBForrest]

Things like this are why I just paid alot more to buy new factory ammo.

I'll take the .20 cent or less a round corrosive ammo and do a little cleaning before spending .50 cents plus for non corrosive ammo on my old C&R's..

[Capbyrd]

It was 42 cents per round. Around twice as much. I clean my guns after shooting as well but I am very overly cautious, slightly OCD, extremely paranoid individual. I don't care that it is a 100 dollar gun. If I screw up on cleaning and have to replace my gun because of a silly mistake, then I'm going to be pissed.

I'm not saying that I will never buy surplus ammo, just saying that right now, I'm too scared to.

[Mike.357]

Capy we all shoot surplus ammo out of our Mosins. I do not know anyone that has ever had a problem with it. Especially if you clean within a day.

I have always used some sort of blue collored window cleaner, cheapest is preferable. I don't care if it is the water or the ammonia that works. There are testimony to using both here on this website. But for me it is easier to use the window cleaner. I keep a 50ml bottle full of the stuff in my cleaning kit, seems to last a long time. None of my surplus type rifles are any worse the wear for shooting corrosive ammo.

A couple of patches soaked in windex, a couple of dry patches, then clean like any other rifle. I also put some windex on the bolt too. Then oil/grease it up.

[Mike.357]

I am seriously considering not cleaning my 91/30 the next time I shoot it. I am very curious as to how fast degradation of the bore and bolt face may begin. Curious enough to chance a $78 rifle.

Shoot it Saturday and again Sunday. Let it go for a week then clean it. I wonder if it will look like oatmeal?

[Garufa]

I am seriously considering not cleaning my 91/30 the next time I shoot it. I am very curious as to how fast degradation of the bore and bolt face may begin. Curious enough to chance a $78 rifle.

Shoot it Saturday and again Sunday. Let it go for a week then clean it. I wonder if it will look like oatmeal?

It looked like hell when you bought it but still shoots like a champ. That bore was rusty!

[Mike.357]

That bore was rusty!

That is the point I guess. When I bought it the bore looked like hell.

It looks near new now. I am not so sure that cleaning them is "that" important.

The bolt face is worn though. But it did not hurt it any really. It still safely and accurately shoots.

What I am wondering is this, exactly how harmful is corrosive ammo. I am thinking not as bad as it gets talked up.

[G27]

That is the point I guess. When I bought it the bore looked like hell.

It looks near new now. I am not so sure that cleaning them is "that" important. w harmful is corrosive ammo. I am thinking not as bad as it gets talked up.

I've always wondered this myself as surely they didn't always have the supplies / energy / time to clean their rifles during war...

[Mike.357]

Where would they have gotten Windex at back in them days?

I bet it does not mattter much. I am going to find out, LOL

[Mark@Sea]

Actually, it's the ammonia in the windex that neutralizes the corrosive salts. A week without cleaning, especially in a humid environment, and your bore will be toast.

Now, what would be a wartime 'expedient' source of warm ammonia water???? Consider that one item of issue for the enfield was a large funnel?

ANCILLARY ENFIELD EQUIPMENT Page 2

Drink 4 or 5 cups of coffee and think about it for an hour, the answer will come to you....

[extremescene]

Where would they have gotten Windex at back in them days?

I bet it does not mattter much. I am going to find out, LOL

I'm very interested to hear your results! I've wandered myself about cleaning during wartime.

[Mark@Sea]

By WWII, the US at least was issuing a great bore cleaner. Not sure what was in it, but it was water based, milky white in appearance and by all reports was a great bore cleaner for corrosive ammo. Production of this stuff stopped sometime after WWII, so although you can sometimes find a can of it on e-bay or at a yard sale, be advised it is 60 years old, at least.

For a decent substitute, try making up a gallon of Ed's Red Bore Cleaner

[Guest GenNBForrest]

By WWII, the US at least was issuing a great bore cleaner. Not sure what was in it, but it was water based, milky white in appearance and by all reports was a great bore cleaner for corrosive ammo. Production of this stuff stopped sometime after WWII, so although you can sometimes find a can of it on e-bay or at a yard sale, be advised it is 60 years old, at least.

For a decent substitute, try making up a gallon of Ed's Red Bore Cleaner

yep, issued bore cleaner in the greenish yellow cans. good stuff if you can find it. Says "POISON" in big letters.

The Ed's Red can be made from a list of ingredients found all over the web or simply bought from Brownell's.

[Mike.357]

so does anyone have first hand experience with this, or is it all just second and third hand info?

I am thinking my 91/30 was road hard and put away wet, but it all cleaned up in the end after I bought it.

[Mark@Sea]

I have first hand experience on ruining a barrel with corrosive ammo.

I've got a half-dozen cans of the old GI bore cleaner at home - you're welcome to a can, for experimental purposes.

[Mike.357]

I have been thinking about this.

Does corrosive from every shot stay in the barrel? I am thinking that each subsequent shot would force out any of those nasty corrosive salts. And when all is done only the last round fired is negatively effecting the long term viability of the bore.

my theory is based on shooting lead bullets and cleaning the barrel from lead fouling by shooting jacketed rounds. This I know works, I've shot lead out of the .357 and then jacketed rounds, there was no leading at all when I cleaned. But in times past, shooting lead only left crud in the barrel.

[Guest GenNBForrest]

I have been thinking about this.

Does corrosive from every shot stay in the barrel? I am thinking that each subsequent shot would force out any of those nasty corrosive salts. And when all is done only the last round fired is negatively effecting the long term viability of the bore.

my theory is based on shooting lead bullets and cleaning the barrel from lead fouling by shooting jacketed rounds. This I know works, I've shot lead out of the .357 and then jacketed rounds, there was no leading at all when I cleaned. But in times past, shooting lead only left crud in the barrel.

Corrosive propellant and primer residue can settle in the rifling and will "plate" due to particulate fall out in the quick drop in hot gas temperatures within the barrel and chamber.

Totally different physics to lead fouling.

[Mike.357]

I am more and more curious about this experiment now. I do need to get a bottle of Marks bore cleaner to use after the rifle sits a bit with the salts in the barrel.

[Guest GenNBForrest]

so does anyone have first hand experience with this, or is it all just second and third hand info?

I am thinking my 91/30 was road hard and put away wet, but it all cleaned up in the end after I bought it.

Yes, and some rifle bores can be cleaned to the point that they will shoot, and shoot fairly well. BUT, corrosion will degrade the barrels land and grooves. It is simple to understand that metal being removed by ANY type of corrosion will be harmful. I am not sure why this would be something you would have a hard time excepting?

[Guest GenNBForrest]

I am more and more curious about this experiment now. I do need to get a bottle of Marks bore cleaner to use after the rifle sits a bit with the salts in the barrel.

Huh?.......your missing the point.......no solvent, snake oil, etc will put the material back that has been "eaten" away by corrosion by letting a rifle sit.

These suggested methods illustrate means to properly clean the corrosive salts from the rifle, directly after shooting to PREVENT the corrosion.

[Mike.357]

Nathan, you are missing MY point.

I want to see it first hand. I prefer to not live vicariously through your words or anyone elses. I want to see what damage is done by leaving the shot rifle alone for a week. My guess is that it will not ruin the bore. I want to use Mark's old school cleaner to see how well it cleans things up. I know first hand how well Hoppes and CLP work. Frankly Hoppes is over rated. CLP is top shelf.

I also am yet to be convinced that ammonia is needed to neutralize corrosive salts.

Many people claim to use simple water with success.

i am not worried about ruining a 78 dollar rifle to see for myself.

[Guest GenNBForrest]

Ruined? probably not in a week.........but under microscope I'd bet there is already erosion of the metal starting.

Still seems kind a dumb to do even with a $78 rifle........yawn.