Just wondering, gun transport to range

[hazmatt]

I do not have my HCP yet and I have read the law about having an unloaded gun on your person/in your car. I was just wondering if anyone thought that I would get in trouble for transporting like this...

handgun unloaded, no mag, zipped closed in a case. Said case in bottom of duffel bag main compartment with other supplies (hearing/eye protection, cleaning supplies, etc) on top, in same compartment and then zipped closed. empty mags in a closed case in first side compartment with other supplies (tools, more cleaning supplies) and zipped closed. Ammo in unopened boxes in second side compartment and zipped closed.

It is more convenient to carry one duffel bag. But, if you guys think I could get into trouble for this setup, I would stick to using multiple bags.

Thanks for your informed responses.

Edited November 22, 2009 by hazmatt

[Guest bkelm18]

Does your vehicle have a trunk? If so, keep the guns in the trunk, ammo up front, or vice versa. Having all items in one duffel is cutting it close. Some would say it's probably fine, but personally I like erring on the side of caution. A few minutes extra may be an inconvenience, but being arrested is an even bigger inconvenience.

[hazmatt]

I drive an S-10 pickup, so no trunk. I could place the ammo or the gun in the glove box. Do you think this would be better?

[Guest bkelm18]

That would work. The basic rule of thumb is, get the ammo and the gun as far away from each other as possible. Ideally, one or the other, or both, should be out of your reach as the driver.

[hazmatt]

Well, the glove box is not going to work. I guess I will have to stick to using two separate duffel bags. one for pistols placed behind the seat,and one for ammo placed in the passenger floorboard.

[Guest bkelm18]

Do you have a toolbox or some way of putting the ammo or guns in the bed of the truck? I see that done a lot. In the end, there's only so much you can do in a pickup. Just keep them separate and out of reach if possible, and follow the speed limits .

[Guest mikedwood]

If I remeber right it's seperate LOCKED containers. Here is my understanding of it and I maybe wrong.

The passanger compartment counts as one and a trunk counts as two. I have a Jeep and no trunk, my glove box doesn't lock. I have no two either. So I needed a little lockable box for ammo, or a lockable guncase for my guns, or both.

I found a little metal box that looked like an ammo box and put a master lock on it. A tool box would work fine even a cheap plastic one with a lock. It must have a lock and be locked. You can lock your gun in it or the ammo but it must be locked. Or it can even be a zippered gun case but if it has a working lock it's suppose to be good.

You can use a Hello Kitty kids lock and lockable Hello Kitty lunch box for the ammo if you want but it must be a lock. They can be laying on top of each other but one or the other must be in a seperate locked container.

Of you have a gun case and 5 or 10 locks locking it with seperate keys and the ammo and guns are in the same container compartment then that is in technically in violation as well.

If the guns are in the range bag and ammo locked in a box and you have even one loose bullet that you spilled in the range bag and didn't notice you are in violation of the law.

I think trigger locks don't count as they aren't a "seperate" container if the ammo is not in a seperate locked container.

When I took my HCP class he stressed "seperated locked containers" the passenger cab counting as one. Van, truck, hatchback or SUV you must make the other.

That's just my understanding of it and I fix computers for a living so it is in NO way legal advice.

Edited November 30, 2009 by mikedwood

[oldogy]

I would certainly separate firearms and ammo as much as possible as to comply with all laws. End of the day result would depend on the LEO who may stop you and the reason for the stop. Some would act on the reason for the stop and others might additionally make your life very unpleasant.

oldogy

[Guest Muttling]

In all honesty, I think you would be fine with the carry you describe.

However, I see a VERY cheap and easy solution to put you in compliance with the letter of the law.

Use a padlock to secure the closure on the top of your duffle bag. You have the unloaded weapon in a locked container seperate from the ammo.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Muttling

[hazmatt]

Thanks guys. I have plenty of locks to lock my locked duffel bag....lol. In all honesty, thanks and I will be using a pad lock to secure both of my bags. Maybe I can find a couple metal military ammo boxes to secure my guns and ammo.

[Punisher84]

I've always been told by trainers and LEOs that using the 3 step method is a good start. I.E If you can load your gun in less than 3 steps it can be considered intent to go armed.

I think if you have the ammo in a case and then the gun in a separate, locked case inside a range bag I think you'd be OK. Even a really jerky cop would have a tough time pushing that one in court.

[Oh Shoot]

If I remeber right it's seperate LOCKED containers. Here is my understanding of it and I maybe wrong....

While locking one or the other up is a good idea IMHO, but neither guns nor ammo are required to be locked up by law.

"Not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition not in the immediate vicinity" are the only provisos in the statues.

- OS

[hazmatt]

even without locks and without using a mag, I would have to...

1. open first duffel bag

2. open gun case

3. open second duffel bag

4. open ammo bag

5. open ammo box

6. load a single round into the chamber

my mags are kept in their own bag within the same duffel bag as the pistols. using a mag would make the 6th step to open mag case and 7th to load the mag. adding padlocks to one or more of the bags would add even more steps. Heck, I could even field strip the pistols and place each piece into separate ziplock bags.

I think it would be hard to say that I was intending to go armed.

Edited December 1, 2009 by hazmatt

[Guest Muttling]

even without locks and without using a mag, I would have to...

1. open first duffel bag

2. open gun case

3. open second duffel bag

4. open ammo bag

5. open ammo box

6. load a single round into the chamber

my mags are kept in their own bag within the same duffel bag as the pistols. using a mag would make the 6th step to open mag case and 7th to load the mag. adding padlocks to one or more of the bags would add even more steps. Heck, I could even field strip the pistols and place each piece into separate ziplock bags.

I think it would be hard to say that I was intending to go armed.

You're not going to get any arguments against from us dude. There's a few of us on here who like to do two things: (1) comply with the law while exercising our rights and (2) discuss/debate the finite details in the letter of the law.

As I said before, I think you initial carry idea is good and I know it's more than most folks you meet at the range will be doing. When you get an HCP, your restrictions on proximity of ammo to weapon will be reduced.

I don't think that this is particularly right (especially when we look to the vaugeness of the vehicle carry aspects), but it is the current law. Do your best not to carry with the intent to go armed until you have an HCP and then carry in compliance with HCP laws.

[hazmatt]

You're not going to get any arguments against from us dude. There's a few of us on here who like to do two things: (1) comply with the law while exercising our rights and (2) discuss/debate the finite details in the letter of the law.

As I said before, I think you initial carry idea is good and I know it's more than most folks you meet at the range will be doing. When you get an HCP, your restrictions on proximity of ammo to weapon will be reduced.

I don't think that this is particularly right (especially when we look to the vaugeness of the vehicle carry aspects), but it is the current law. Do your best not to carry with the intent to go armed until you have an HCP and then carry in compliance with HCP laws.

Thanks. Most of the LEOs I have met in my city are rational people. After I have my HCP I will have my carry gun loaded and holstered. Any other gun will still be unloaded and in a duffel bag.

[Oh Shoot]

... After I have my HCP I will have my carry gun loaded and holstered. Any other gun will still be unloaded and in a duffel bag.

Your choice on the long guns with HCP.

You know you can have loaded long guns in vehicle (but not one in chamber) with HCP, yes?

- OS

[hazmatt]

I don't own any long guns for now. BRD is in my system. I just don't have the finances to treat it.

[Trekbike]

No intent to jack the thread since it's on the topic, but hopefully a quick question.

I believe I am correct but just wanted to see what you guys do.

I have my HCP and when I go to the range I still follow the locked separate container deal since I usually have my son in the car with me and he doesn't have his HCP yet.

I'm carrying and under control of my firearm but don't want there to be any confusion on his access to other firearms/ammo in the vehicle. It just makes sense to me to still have to do this.

So to my question, am I legally required to still do this with my HCP?

[Guest SUNTZU]

No intent to jack the thread since it's on the topic, but hopefully a quick question.

I believe I am correct but just wanted to see what you guys do.

I have my HCP and when I go to the range I still follow the locked separate container deal since I usually have my son in the car with me and he doesn't have his HCP yet.

I'm carrying and under control of my firearm but don't want there to be any confusion on his access to other firearms/ammo in the vehicle. It just makes sense to me to still have to do this.

So to my question, am I legally required to still do this with my HCP?

No.

[Oh Shoot]

No.

Agree.

- OS

[Trekbike]

So why wouldn't other members in the vehicle be liable for "intent to go armed" since they don't have a HCP?

[Guest SUNTZU]

So why wouldn't other members in the vehicle be liable for "intent to go armed" since they don't have a HCP?

Its your gun. Do they have it in a holster on their hip? Then yes. But if its in your possession, then you're okay. Same if its in a range bag.

Edit to add: I think you are overthinking the situation.

[Guest bkelm18]

I remember somewhere, somewhere, reading that in that scenario, that if the gun is within reach of the unlicensed occupant, then that could be considered intent to go armed. Hell if I know. I might have just made that up.

[Oh Shoot]

... Hell if I know. I might have just made that up.

Yup.

- OS

[Trekbike]

Its your gun. Do they have it in a holster on their hip? Then yes. But if its in your possession, then you're okay. Same if its in a range bag.

Edit to add: I think you are overthinking the situation.

Just to clarify, my question relates back to the following.

Me having my EDC on me. Plus there might be a couple of long guns and 4-5 handguns plus ammo in the vehicle as well.

Since we have seen different LEO's respond differently in certain situations, I can very well see one claiming my son's ability to go armed without doing the separated and locked containers.

I just don't want to try and prove my case in court. You might just then say, "if it makes you feel better, lock them up", but I'm just trying to determine if there is a clear written law on the subject.